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  #181  
Old 08-16-2017, 05:19 PM
Cliff Goldstein Cliff Goldstein is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Boulder, Colorado
Posts: 9
Default XP400 Fuels

I fought this battle a couple years ago when I was going to decide. The efii system installed by Barrett's during the build was a big factor. I.e. Flying a system that had been tested on a test stand first. Robert of efii Protek says , below 9:1 you can run auto fuel and the efii system will accommodate the lower octane fuels to a point. The STC for auto fuel has a hard stop at 8000 feet due to the vapor pressure of fuel . That was never a factor for me as I live in Boulder Colorado so I wasn't burning auto fuel. Leaving efii out of the formula, which is where I started ., parts and maintenance on 400 was less costly at the time of my decision. And a smaller point, in the 400 you can pull a tappet without splitting the case to examine a cam load. It's a small item but when your trying to decide you look at all the factors. I also had a set of superior cylinders on an IO520 for 20 years and 2000 hours before an AD knocked them out. Cylinders were fine. Both engines are great. But there are a few differences such as cost and better internal cooling that helped tipped the scales even without EFII. (Robert corect me if I'm wrong on auto fuels). Very difficult choice but u won't go wrong either way
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  #182  
Old 08-19-2017, 06:30 PM
Bigortho Bigortho is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Forest Hills, NY
Posts: 11
Default XP-400 & RV-14A Cowl

RV-14A with Superior XP-400 Installation Tips

Exhaust System

The Vans Lycoming IO-390 Exhaust System does not fit the Superior XP-400: you must buy a $1395 Vetterman Exhaust (currently a dual independent exhaust system with no crossover pipes) to fit the XP-400. The dual pipes do not enter the tunnel, but exit the cowl bottom anterior to the nose wheel hinge, so the cowl needs two cutouts adjacent to the nose wheel cutout - not a big deal.

The Vetterman Exhaust uses 2 pipes, which results in much lower back pressure than the Vans Single Exhaust pipe. Both Heat Exchange & Sound Mufflers can be added to the Vetterman Exhaust as the low profile Superior XP-400 Horizontal Cold Air Injection Manifold allows room under the lower cowl for muff/mufflers.

When you delete the Vans Exhaust from the Firewall Forward Kit, you also delete the cabin heat components: You must order 2" SCAT Tube, 10 hose clamps and the T- Splitter [VENT-00002] from Vans. A SCAT runs from the Fresh Air intake [CB-0007] located in the right cowl vent to a splitter, which shunts air to the right & left muffs. Another pair of SCATs connects the muffs to the Cabin Heat Valves.

If you want truly independent heat controls for both the pilot & copilot you must also order two FF-00084 Cabin Heat Valve Covers. Otherwise if one side is open and the other closed, most of the heat will shunt out the bottom of the closed valve.
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  #183  
Old 08-21-2017, 09:11 AM
Polar Polar is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Central Alberta
Posts: 61
Default

This is good info, and great news

Thanks
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  #184  
Old 08-21-2017, 07:23 PM
3XBuilder 3XBuilder is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Santa Rosa
Posts: 2
Default

The Van's exhaust system on my 14A with Superior IO-400 fit perfectly without any modification. One advantage of the Van's system-- the single exhaust tail pipe allowed me to build a simple glass/stainless mesh packed muffler.

http://get.google.com/albumarchive/1...HSAPRMulROKdgA

Last edited by 3XBuilder : 08-21-2017 at 07:36 PM. Reason: Add pictures?? Add engine info.
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  #185  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:01 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 6,779
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigortho View Post
RV-14A with Superior XP-400 Installation Tips

Exhaust System

The Vans Lycoming IO-390 Exhaust System does not fit the Superior XP-400: you must buy a $1395 Vetterman Exhaust (currently a dual independent exhaust system with no crossover pipes) to fit the XP-400. The dual pipes do not enter the tunnel, but exit the cowl bottom anterior to the nose wheel hinge, so the cowl needs two cutouts adjacent to the nose wheel cutout - not a big deal.

The Vetterman Exhaust uses 2 pipes, which results in much lower back pressure than the Vans Single Exhaust pipe. Both Heat Exchange & Sound Mufflers can be added to the Vetterman Exhaust as the low profile Superior XP-400 Horizontal Cold Air Injection Manifold allows room under the lower cowl for muff/mufflers.

When you delete the Vans Exhaust from the Firewall Forward Kit, you also delete the cabin heat components: You must order 2" SCAT Tube, 10 hose clamps and the T- Splitter [VENT-00002] from Vans. A SCAT runs from the Fresh Air intake [CB-0007] located in the right cowl vent to a splitter, which shunts air to the right & left muffs. Another pair of SCATs connects the muffs to the Cabin Heat Valves.

If you want truly independent heat controls for both the pilot & copilot you must also order two FF-00084 Cabin Heat Valve Covers. Otherwise if one side is open and the other closed, most of the heat will shunt out the bottom of the closed valve.
If an RV-14 heat system is installed per plans there is a slight interaction between operation of the left and right heat controls but it is minor.
As designed the cabin heat system works very well because of the dual/series'ed heat muffs and the use of one FF-00084 cover. You should never install an FF-00084 cover on both heat valves on an RV-14 (or any other model).
The whole purpose of the heat valves being designed the way they are (constant flow, so that even if the heat is shut off, the valve allows air to flow through the system) is to prevent system over heating. There must be constant flow through the system to prevent over heating of the exhaust system in the areas covered by the muffs, and the muffs and hose themselves.

Regarding the potential performance differences in the two exhaust systems....?
I am still waiting for someone to provide some test data showing a performance difference between the two.
Detailed flight testing was done on the current system using a number of different collector pipe configurations. The simplest design was used since testing showed no easily measurable difference between them.

It is not data obtained with controlled testing, but at least one RV-14 which is reported to have a tweaked engine (higher than standard HP) and a Vetterman exhaust system has speeds and fuel flows that are no different from the company prototypes.
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Any opinions expressed in this message are my own and not necessarily those of my employer.

Scott McDaniels
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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  #186  
Old 08-22-2017, 09:24 PM
Bigortho Bigortho is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Forest Hills, NY
Posts: 11
Default Vetterman Dual Exhaust

You're right about the necessity of air constantly flowing through the mufflers and dual covers should not be used. The Vans heat muffs are arranged in series on the right side of the engine and a T-Splitter is used to direct warmed air to both cabin heat valves.

As the Vettermans has two independent exhaust systems, you need to split the air before it flows to the right and left muffs. This entails running a long SCAT from the right intake to a splitter at the back of the engine as there's no room up front for a crossing SCAT Tube.

An alternative is to place a second fresh air flanged duct on the rear left baffle for the left muff. Now each heat system is independent and no covers should be used on with cabin heat valve. This is what I plan to do and have ordered the parts from Spruce.
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  #187  
Old 08-23-2017, 12:33 PM
Sqrfrk Sqrfrk is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Alameda, CA
Posts: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3XBuilder View Post
The Van's exhaust system on my 14A with Superior IO-400 fit perfectly without any modification. One advantage of the Van's system-- the single exhaust tail pipe allowed me to build a simple glass/stainless mesh packed muffler.

http://get.google.com/albumarchive/1...HSAPRMulROKdgA
When you say Superior IO-400, you meant their XP400? Does this mean that the stock exhaust system does in fact fit that engine?
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  #188  
Old 08-24-2017, 10:41 AM
3XBuilder 3XBuilder is offline
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Santa Rosa
Posts: 2
Default RV-14 Engine options and exhaust system

The engine I have is the Superior XP-400, but was assembled by Aero Sport Power who designates the engine as a IO-400-M1S. This engine is a very close "clone" of the Lyc 390, and in my experience, any accessory that is designed for the 390 can be bolted onto the Superior 400, including the baffle kit and exhaust system provided by Van's. I would say the engine is very similar to the Lyc Thunderbolt 390 option-- I had my engine ported and flow matched and ignitions are dual Light Speed Engineering PIII. The prop is the Hartzell BA 74, and this engine and prop are a great combination.

Last edited by 3XBuilder : 08-24-2017 at 10:55 AM. Reason: Prop designation as BA
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