What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

Vans FAB mount plate to farther back throttle body?

sbalmos

sbalmos

Well Known Member
Hi all,

Well, with the engine on, now starts the greater head scratching. My engine is an older model IO-320 that has a sump with a vertical oil pickup tube. Thus the screen access is in the center of the sump, and the throttle body is farther aft. To my chagrin, this makes the normal Vans FAB mount plate, and maybe the whole FAB, interfere with my nose gear. Suggestions?

AF1QipOuv1LzOuEoZnCtZnjktPib4aAF-8psP9dcj6y-


I could probably just order a Sam James MK3 ram air kit. But then I'd have to swap my shorty James cowl for a longer one, buy the longer Sabre prop extension, etc etc etc. not impossible, but annoying.
 
sbalmos said:
Hi all,

Well, with the engine on, now starts the greater head scratching. My engine is an older model IO-320 that has a sump with a vertical oil pickup tube. Thus the screen access is in the center of the sump, and the throttle body is farther aft. To my chagrin, this makes the normal Vans FAB mount plate, and maybe the whole FAB, interfere with my nose gear. Suggestions?

AF1QipOuv1LzOuEoZnCtZnjktPib4aAF-8psP9dcj6y-


I could probably just order a Sam James MK3 ram air kit. But then I'd have to swap my shorty James cowl for a longer one, buy the longer Sabre prop extension, etc etc etc. not impossible, but annoying.
Click to expand...

It looks like you have an IO-320-B?? engine. The -B?? engine is NOT recommended on -A model RVs because the sump puts the FAB into the nose gear. The fix is a sump / intake tube replacement to make the engine work.

Here is a link to one thread that talked about the issue.

... and a 2nd thread with same issue.
 
:eek:

No, actually it is an IO-320-E1A. But now I'm going to have to back-track through the E1A's lineage to see if it's really designed from a B? series. My immediate concern would be if I swapped the sump, this series engine has the vertical oil pick up tube. Wouldn't any sump have to have a rear-mounted throttle, in order for there to exist the screen access port for the vertical oil pick up?
 
Just talked with Scott at the factory... Yeah... Looks like I'm going to have to do research and convert the sump to a "normal" straight riser sump, with different induction tubes (which will have to be rewelded by Robert at EFII), and removing the vertical oil pick up tube inside the sump.

Scott confirmed this affects whatever engines have the vertical pick up tube, and thus a non-straight sump.

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH. :mad:
 
sbalmos said:
Just talked with Scott at the factory... Yeah... Looks like I'm going to have to do research and convert the sump to a "normal" straight riser sump, with different induction tubes (which will have to be rewelded by Robert at EFII), and removing the vertical oil pick up tube inside the sump.
Scott confirmed this affects whatever engines have the vertical pick up tube, and thus a non-straight sump.
AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH. :mad:
Click to expand...

Remember what Rosanne Rosannadanna said, "It's always something!"
 
Uh, *NO*. :p

Heck of a way to start a Monday. I'm also leaving out the part that while mounting the engine, I dropped said throttle body on my 2-week-old phone, turning it into a great Halloween-appropriate spider web.

Large ups and downs... *sigh* Oh well. It's only time and money.
 
Looks like Larry replied, but it's not showing up in the server. Copied below from my notice email.

---Quote (Originally by sbalmos)---
Just talked with Scott at the factory... Yeah... Looks like I'm going to have to do research and convert the sump to a "normal" straight riser sump, with different induction tubes (which will have to be rewelded by Robert at EFII), and removing the vertical oil pick up tube inside the sump.

Scott confirmed this affects whatever engines have the vertical pick up tube, and thus a non-straight sump.

AAAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH. :mad:
---End Quote---
I don't think so. I purchased a 320-B1A with the sump you are referring to. The desirable sump (central intake area) has the pickup cavity formed into the sum and a protrusion on the aft wall of the sump. This cavity appears in the upper flange of the sump. If you look at your accessory case, you will find a threaded hole in the lower flange surface with a hex plug in it (this aligns with the sump's cavity). Simply remove that hex plug and make a metal cover for the area where your original sump tube connects. Be sure to use a good washer here and locking bolts.

Larry
Click to expand...

So, I think I see where this is going. Below is a pic I took weeks back when I last had the sump off for other reasons. I recognize the hex plug in the rear flange of the accessory case now. And I've seen multiple ideas for the block off plate of the vertical tube's hole once that's removed. So it's a matter of finding a proper sump (in progress), new tubes (found), probably a different pickup screen according to the parts catalog, and any misc random gaskets and such. The plan is starting to come together.

_i2QUWX0Tpi0dd-hixcC2g5ShuKpmYvm-CsKDbqDNKu_m5A9acA4ZdODo7hfh6hOTSbu4LJ942M9HLveAcSLd9CsWeen10sp5qoFCW8MJeQ65pTuVcMyAlkT_2VUznz0eFtqdKwvhUi-AapM3O9_HD1vUmHC-ZV_afyQ2lFMfC5MzhKkSmjHTtOUL_i-cAJXNtYxT_pjCggE7Q7-aRvhupdxJew0-wIElQiH0hmMsg2KSwJRyqFCbqwJpw1jhlMtg1HGpJMNFtTgjNhod1an7FEhd7Ohw9jNENn25cz5H0hm5TQln-pA8I1SeFObYFQhB49QraGXcuWvIE2qdb5WMWNG95gzd3KrUqoL3VKE78aJmNv9RuVuEFIMAZ0YffAHJBSFnpesUvr4hb2YaNdMyO3pUYiyGc87vYVVsUWQtPrbMO18kjbNy8TkVce99yYNJ_fxTp3JwOzk36dxkRv6o470SbQHAFSTbr5Qo-RxWI54fexChWtSFolFzqEg_Ni0BaPTBwr98gr2xeRcI0mgEO5kteY-9lt9t74HdTpsI0Tw7IRCInUNrrPojhBuuARLvEQTNIx8vBYVP_YL5mHCjuJZWfA06noo8TAX38Gcx2-x-iDy=w1139-h644-no
 
sorry. When I wrote that, I thought you were having a problem converting to the other sump feed. I later realized your concern was about re-welding the intake tubes, not the oil pickup, so I deleted it.

You will not need a new pickup tube. The oil collection / feed in cast into the sump. You'll just need a screen, which should come with the sump you buy. The main sump gasket will have the hole in it. You just need to fabricate a plate for the back of the accy case. I made one from a piece of steel. SHould only take a 1/2 hour to make and mount. Be sure to look on ebay. I found a sump with intake tubes for $200 and sold my old one on ebay for $180.

Good luck,

Larry

sbalmos said:
Looks like Larry replied, but it's not showing up in the server. Copied below from my notice email.



So, I think I see where this is going. Below is a pic I took weeks back when I last had the sump off for other reasons. I recognize the hex plug in the rear flange of the accessory case now. And I've seen multiple ideas for the block off plate of the vertical tube's hole once that's removed. So it's a matter of finding a proper sump (in progress), new tubes (found), probably a different pickup screen according to the parts catalog, and any misc random gaskets and such. The plan is starting to come together.

_i2QUWX0Tpi0dd-hixcC2g5ShuKpmYvm-CsKDbqDNKu_m5A9acA4ZdODo7hfh6hOTSbu4LJ942M9HLveAcSLd9CsWeen10sp5qoFCW8MJeQ65pTuVcMyAlkT_2VUznz0eFtqdKwvhUi-AapM3O9_HD1vUmHC-ZV_afyQ2lFMfC5MzhKkSmjHTtOUL_i-cAJXNtYxT_pjCggE7Q7-aRvhupdxJew0-wIElQiH0hmMsg2KSwJRyqFCbqwJpw1jhlMtg1HGpJMNFtTgjNhod1an7FEhd7Ohw9jNENn25cz5H0hm5TQln-pA8I1SeFObYFQhB49QraGXcuWvIE2qdb5WMWNG95gzd3KrUqoL3VKE78aJmNv9RuVuEFIMAZ0YffAHJBSFnpesUvr4hb2YaNdMyO3pUYiyGc87vYVVsUWQtPrbMO18kjbNy8TkVce99yYNJ_fxTp3JwOzk36dxkRv6o470SbQHAFSTbr5Qo-RxWI54fexChWtSFolFzqEg_Ni0BaPTBwr98gr2xeRcI0mgEO5kteY-9lt9t74HdTpsI0Tw7IRCInUNrrPojhBuuARLvEQTNIx8vBYVP_YL5mHCjuJZWfA06noo8TAX38Gcx2-x-iDy=w1139-h644-no
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Yeah, bought a sump and tubes from my local salvage guy last night. And yeah, I understand the horizontal intake flow process now. Just have to find a proper piece of scrap steel now floating around the airport. :)
 
Pick up tube block off plate

sbalmos said:
Yeah, bought a sump and tubes from my local salvage guy last night. And yeah, I understand the horizontal intake flow process now. Just have to find a proper piece of scrap steel now floating around the airport. :)
Click to expand...

A little secret from the old timers... The plate you seek is found on the 200 hp rocker shaft cover. Got a bunch ,PM if you need one. The plug in the accy case either threads or pulls out depending on the version. Block off the external oil pick up flange with plate and bolt on late model sump.No big deal really. Sorry can't help with the phone repair,
Duff
 
Back on the road again! Swapped out the sump and intake tubes for one off an O-320-E1A (darn you Lycoming and your screwy family tree for there being such a difference between an IO-320-E1A and an O-320-E1A!). Duff's rocker shaft cover as the oil pickup block off plate worked perfectly. Pulled the engine, tore the exhaust and old intake tubes off, swapped sumps, put the new intake tubes on, scribed the injector locations for Robert at EFII, and yanked the tubes back off in roughly 2 hours flat, interrupted in the middle by our monthly chapter meeting.

You'd think I kind of knew what I was doing! :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top