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  #11  
Old 06-14-2015, 09:59 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sblack View Post
ya the holes all look dimpled. Is that some sort of illusion? I even see the ring that looks like a dimple die was used.
Dimpled and the rivets inserted in the wrong direction?
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Last edited by az_gila : 06-14-2015 at 11:20 AM.
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2015, 11:11 AM
kdedmunds kdedmunds is offline
 
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Default it is possible

I will have to consult with Vans. The plans definitely call for machine countersinking the doubler and dimpling the spar to match. They also note that the head of the rivet be on the aft side. The side you are seeing is the forward side. Maybe i should have asked. I scratched my head a few times also.
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2015, 11:26 AM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdedmunds View Post
I will have to consult with Vans. The plans definitely call for machine countersinking the doubler and dimpling the spar to match. They also note that the head of the rivet be on the aft side. The side you are seeing is the forward side. Maybe i should have asked. I scratched my head a few times also.
If it's the area on sheet 5 here -

https://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-14/06.pdf

Then it is the flush head that is forward, just like the all of the other Vans models vertical stabilizer spars.

Perhaps the "head of the rivet be on the aft side" note referred to the shop head?
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2015, 12:25 PM
Tom Martin Tom Martin is offline
 
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Default

This is where the VS attaches to the aft fuselage bulkhead. In this case the forward face is dimpled so that the "manufactured" head rests in the dimple. The shop head is formed on the aft side, Gil is correct. These rivets appear to be in backwards.
The only time you will see shop heads in a dimple is when you are doing a "double flush" assembly such as the trailing edge of some control surfaces. I know of no cases where this technique is used with -4 rivets
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Last edited by Tom Martin : 06-14-2015 at 12:35 PM.
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  #15  
Old 06-14-2015, 06:38 PM
kdedmunds kdedmunds is offline
 
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Default That makes alot more sense

I guess I have a few more to drill out...
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  #16  
Old 06-14-2015, 08:56 PM
sblack sblack is offline
 
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I use an undersize drill to start with and i run the drill really slow. After you have done a few you figure out how to "steer" it into the center. But if you go slow you have time to control it before doing any damage.

Don't feel bad, this stuff is not obvious until you have built a few parts and we've all messed up lots of rivets.
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  #17  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:04 AM
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Default Drilling rivets

Quote:
Originally Posted by sblack View Post
I use an undersize drill to start with and i run the drill really slow. After you have done a few you figure out how to "steer" it into the center. But if you go slow you have time to control it before doing any damage.

Don't feel bad, this stuff is not obvious until you have built a few parts and we've all messed up lots of rivets.
Just to build on Scott's tip.
Drilling rivets 101
1. Center punch the rivet with an auto punch right in the dimpled piont on the factory head. If there isn't one, get as close to center as possible.
2. Use a small drill to drill a pilot hole. As Scott describes, go slow. Pull it and look. If not centered, walk it carefully. Drill to the depth of the factory head. When your skills improve, you can go deeper to relieve stress so the rivet comes out easier.
3. Use a drill stop on the correct size bit for the hole. Leave only enough bit exposed to go through the factory head. This way, you can't drill the part and egg shape a hole. Drill the pilot hole.
4. Take an old bit the same size, insert the squared end and snap off the factory head.
5. Get a socket that just fits over the shop head with an extension. Use it to support the back side while you tap the rivet out with a punch.
An auto punch ground down go fit #3 rivet hole makes a useful one handed rivet driver. On the big #4s you will need a punch and small hammer. Don't beat them out. If they are stubborn, use the tiny pilot drill to carefully drill the shank.
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  #18  
Old 06-15-2015, 09:10 AM
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ppilotmike ppilotmike is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wirejock View Post
Just to build on Scott's tip.
Drilling rivets 101
1. Center punch the rivet with an auto punch right in the dimpled piont on the factory head. If there isn't one, get as close to center as possible.
2. Use a small drill to drill a pilot hole. As Scott describes, go slow. Pull it and look. If not centered, walk it carefully. Drill to the depth of the factory head. When your skills improve, you can go deeper to relieve stress so the rivet comes out easier.
3. Use a drill stop on the correct size bit for the hole. Leave only enough bit exposed to go through the factory head. This way, you can't drill the part and egg shape a hole. Drill the pilot hole.
4. Take an old bit the same size, insert the squared end and snap off the factory head.
5. Get a socket that just fits over the shop head with an extension. Use it to support the back side while you tap the rivet out with a punch.
An auto punch ground down go fit #3 rivet hole makes a useful one handed rivet driver. On the big #4s you will need a punch and small hammer. Don't beat them out. If they are stubborn, use the tiny pilot drill to carefully drill the shank.
And here's another tip:

Early on in your build, practice on scrap.. A LOT! I used to make little coupons (small bits of aluminum sheet) that I would dril, dimple and rivet together for practice before every session of "real work." It helped get my head right, so I didn't screw up. Also, it helped preset things like countersink stops, squeezer settings, air pressure on my rivet gun, etc. IMO, practice BEFORE prevents lots more "practice" after.
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  #19  
Old 06-15-2015, 12:43 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kdedmunds View Post
I will have to consult with Vans. The plans definitely call for machine countersinking the doubler and dimpling the spar to match. They also note that the head of the rivet be on the aft side. The side you are seeing is the forward side. Maybe i should have asked. I scratched my head a few times also.
The note you were probably confused by is actually for the next step.

It says -
NOTE: Install AN470 rivets with manufactured
heads on aft surface for easier access to the
skin-to-spar rivets.


It is referring to AN470 (round head) rivets. The rivets you are installing backwards are AN426 (flush) rivets.
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