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  #11  
Old 12-15-2014, 07:52 PM
Denase Denase is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Colorado
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Imagine if everyone who comes to the site just searched. No new posts, wouldn't the forum die?
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  #12  
Old 12-15-2014, 08:18 PM
Top Cat Top Cat is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Fort Mill SC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog View Post
This is a builders site and the first thing builders learn when they start a project like the RV-12 is humility because there are things we do not fully understand at first. Apparently you do not belong here.
Well, as new RV-12 SLSA owners you have certainly put us in our place.

I'm not a builder, but I chose to buy the same kit as you though assembled by Synergy for Vans. I'm sorry you find it tedious to have to read some of our questions. I have in fact spent a lot of time on this site searching for answers, sometimes I've found it, sometimes not.

Having been made welcome by many here there seem to be some rather condescending 'builder-culture' types who apparently don't understand the frustrations and the rapid learning curve needed by a new SLSA owner. Perhaps they could care less.

I have spoken with EBB and found him a friendly fellow who has a passion for airplanes and a lot of experience in all sorts of flying. He is certainly a fan of the RV-12 and Rotax engines and, like myself, has found many aspects of dealing with Vans, Rotax and some members on this forum frustrating at times.

Perhaps I'll move on and see if there is another RV-12 forum a little less discriminating.

Last edited by Top Cat : 12-15-2014 at 09:10 PM.
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2014, 09:39 PM
kdedmunds kdedmunds is offline
 
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Location: Tallahassee, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WingedFrog
This is a builders site and the first thing builders learn when they start a project like the RV-12 is humility because there are things we do not fully understand at first. Apparently you do not belong here.

A rather uninformed opinion, I too chose to buy rather than build as did half of the RV owners I fly with. I dare say that many of the posts found on this forum deal with small issues or tweaking that occur hours after fight worthiness is achieved. I have found this site to be an invaluable source of information, encouragement and comraderie for ALL of us who have choosen to enjoy the characteristics of the various models designed by Vans. This is a forum dedicated to Vans enthusiasts of all interests.
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2014, 10:50 PM
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KALEWIS KALEWIS is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Jackson, OH
Posts: 466
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The OP of this thread has started at least 5 other threads covering similar topics that could be consolidated to 1 or 2 threads. The tone is the same in all, questioning methods by the "factory" (engine and airframe) and then stating that those methods are insuffecient to his liking. Also insistent that proper documentation is lacking when in truth it is not.

Of course there is a learning curve for a new owner wether it's SLSA or ELSA / EAB. The holier than thou approach is not the best. I don't care wether you have owned 15 Bonanzas or how much flight time you have. The -12 and the "experimental" playbook is a little different.

To state that you have no interest in obtaining the kit plans for your airplane when many of your questions can be answered by them......and then putting that in what could be considered condescending tone does not sit well with those offering advice here.
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2014, 11:15 PM
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Bill_H Bill_H is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Peel, AR
Posts: 1,760
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K. Edmonds and Top Cat - I LOVE that you bought an SLSA and find this sub-forum useful and we all welcome the SLSA owners. (The SLSAs raised the value of all our ELSAs!) All of the certified world "type clubs" do similar good. We have the additional benefit of having plans and actual builder experience weighing in on the issues compared to those clubs. And factory experts as well, certainly unlike most type clubs/forums.

I came to the forum, and to the various builder blogs, of wanting to learn from those that had gone before me. (Not to dictate to them.) That seems to be the most common attitude throughout the VAF a and has been invaluable in my build and subsequent operation.
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  #16  
Old 12-16-2014, 07:36 AM
JosephineJ79 JosephineJ79 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: OSH WI
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Everyone with an interest in RV-12s is welcome here except complainers. I get enough complaints from my husband and do not want to read them here also. Oops, did I complain? Sorry.
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  #17  
Old 12-16-2014, 12:52 PM
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f1rocket f1rocket is offline
 
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Location: Martinsville, IN
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A feature of the forum that I use occasionally is the "ignore list". Go to the User CP tab and click on Buddy/Ignore list and you can add user IDs. Posts from people on your ignore list will not display.

Sometimes, it's the only way to make one's life less stressful.
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RV-12 - Completed 2014, Sold
427 Shelby Cobra - Completed 2012, Sold
F1 EVO - partially completed, Sold
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  #18  
Old 12-16-2014, 01:39 PM
SteinAir SteinAir is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 2,449
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I think part of the frustration here for both the OP and some of the posters, is that in some cases "we" are all ships kind of passing in the night on specifics. There are both technical, functional, and legal perspectives that differentiate what you can do with the S-LSA (and I think/hope everyone would gladly welcome any of the SLSA folks here, I know I do) verses the E-LSA and the E-AB versions of the RV12. There also has not been a terrible amount of discussion on the SLSA and upgrades (mainly due to now many are out there and how relatively new they are).

In regards to the SLSA specifically; the options are quite different from a legal perspective as compared to the ELSA. One simply does not have the authority to remove/replace things at will, and if you do choose to update/upgrade the airplane - then it must be permitted and certified by the mfgr of said SLSA. We've done a whole pile of varying SLSA upgrades and retrofits over the years (Tecnam, CT, Evektor, Czech, etc..) and there are varying levels of approvals from each company as to what they allow you to do.

In the case of the RV12's, one would need to contact Vans to see what "approved" upgrade/modification allowances and/or kits they have for the SLSA and the Skyview as it relates to adding a screen. I'm sorry I don't have any exact answers for you, but the factory would be my first starting point. It's also different as to WHO can do the modifications and the relative paperwork for those modifications as compared to the "E" versions of the planes, so one would need to take that into account as well.

Last note - I'm happy with ALL the RV-12 builders, because we have been lucky enough to be able to supply various parts for both the EAB/ELSA and SLSA versions....so to me, you're all welcome on board as members of the Vans community...buyers and/or builders alike.

Just my 2 cents as usual!

Cheers,
Stein

Last edited by SteinAir : 12-16-2014 at 02:32 PM.
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2014, 03:20 PM
aerofurb aerofurb is offline
 
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Location: High Wycombe, UK
Posts: 282
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Personally, I don't have an issue with anyone 'using' the forum, be they builders, prospective builders, buyers of completed secondhand aircraft or new 'factory' machines.

I think the search function here works very well but sometimes the info on the subject in question might be out of date.

But, if you can find the SkyView discussion forum and post questions there, I'm sure one can find the product documentation page on the main website.... One might question the wisdom though, of asking how to install a Rotax supplied voltage regulator in a Van's RV-12 on a Dynon SkyView discussion forum.

It isn't really surprising that if one consistently posts their complaints on a forum that is 100% biased towards a particular aircraft (or car, motorcycle, lawn mower etc) then some might find this a bit tiresome - especially when the poster is very much in the minority with their complaint or even factually incorrect.
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  #20  
Old 12-16-2014, 09:46 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Love all, serve all! -- hey, maybe I should start a restaurant chain!
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