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  #31  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:35 AM
kdedmunds kdedmunds is offline
 
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Originally Posted by skylor View Post
The scary thing is, this type of thing is not all that rare. For example, I'm aware of a CFII that believed it was perfectly legal to (and he did) give IPC's and act as a safety pilot while he didn't have a medical. The same CFII had his license revoked after failing a 709 check-ride (he was given 2 attempts and never even made it to the point of taxiing the aircraft), then thought it was still legal to provide flight instruction! (instructor certificates have a note right on them stating that they are only valid when accompanied by pilots license # xxxxxxxxx).

Skylor
According to the local examiner a CFII does not require a current medical to instruct and does qualify to instruct the required 15 hours. I have a good friend who is a wonderful instructor and pilot but lost his medical. I have a current medical and according to the local examiner that is sufficient. My friend can not instruct student pilots but can instruct a qualified pilot working toward an IFR rating. We double checked prior to any instruction.
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  #32  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:50 AM
60av8tor 60av8tor is offline
 
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Originally Posted by kdedmunds View Post
I have a current medical and according to the local examiner that is sufficient. My friend can not instruct student pilots but can instruct a qualified pilot working toward an IFR rating. We double checked prior to any instruction.
61.23 (b)(5)

(b) Operations not requiring a medical certificate. A person is not required to hold a medical certificate—

(5) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is not acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember

It's about being a required crew member, so student pilot, safety pilot, etc, no; flight review, something where student can act as PIC (not just log PIC), say PVT ASEL to COMM ASEL, yes. I'm not sure the IFR training is legit as if IMC or if the student is under the hood, the CFII is definitely a required crew member.
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Last edited by 60av8tor : 05-12-2017 at 05:08 AM.
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  #33  
Old 05-12-2017, 07:53 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Originally Posted by 60av8tor View Post
61.23 (b)(5)

(b) Operations not requiring a medical certificate. A person is not required to hold a medical certificate—

(5) When exercising the privileges of a flight instructor certificate if the person is not acting as pilot in command or serving as a required pilot flight crewmember

It's about being a required crew member, so student pilot, safety pilot, etc, no; flight review, something where student can act as PIC (not just log PIC), say PVT ASEL to COMM ASEL, yes. I'm not sure the IFR training is legit as if IMC or if the student is under the hood, the CFII is definitely a required crew member.
I have to agree with this interpretation. The regs are pretty clear that a PIC operating with reference only to instruments in VFR conditions requires a safety pilot. The requirements of the safety pilot are also very clear. I don't see how an exception exists if the safety pilot happens to be an Instructor. To me, this would require an explicit exception or notation to that fact in the regs and I have never seen that. It may exist, I have not really read the regs related to instructors. Remember, following sound reasoning, a safety pilot must be able to provide pilotting skills in the role of safety pilot. Therefore a reasonable person should assume that typical PIC pilot qualifications should apply.

We have learned that individual FAA employee opinions vary like the colors of rainbow. However, in front of the ALJ that won't help the accused. In this country we follow the legal standard that "ignorance is no excuse." I feel quite confident that receiving inaccurate guidance/ reg interpretation from an FAA employee will not help to defend against an action directly in violation of the regs, though it could be the case when the regs are not clear and the situation requires interpretation of the regs. In this case, it's pretty clear what the reg's are requiring.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 05-12-2017 at 08:04 AM.
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  #34  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:29 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is online now
 
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I know of one cfi/no medical who did instrument training. He sat in the back seat, and brought along a fully qualified safety pilot to sit in the right front seat. Usually the safety pilot was another instrument student, so after flying an hour or so the two front seat guys swapped seats. Of course this was limited to VFR, as no one on board could act as PIC in IMC.
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  #35  
Old 05-12-2017, 01:57 PM
60av8tor 60av8tor is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
I know of one cfi/no medical who did instrument training. He sat in the back seat, and brought along a fully qualified safety pilot to sit in the right front seat. Usually the safety pilot was another instrument student, so after flying an hour or so the two front seat guys swapped seats. Of course this was limited to VFR, as no one on board could act as PIC in IMC.
Good call, Bob; forgot about that scenario. We used to do that in the military every now and then - check pilot in the jump seat.
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  #36  
Old 05-12-2017, 04:50 PM
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skylor skylor is offline
 
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Default Medicals and Instrument Instruction/Safety Pilot Priveleges

While we're on the subject of medical requirements for instrument instruction and safety pilots, it's also worth mentioning that one major bummer with the new Basic Med is that a pilot holding a Basic Med certificate can only act as a CFII or simulated instrument safety pilot IF they are the Pilot In Command for the flight.

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  #37  
Old 05-12-2017, 11:55 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is online now
 
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Originally Posted by skylor View Post
While we're on the subject of medical requirements for instrument instruction and safety pilots, it's also worth mentioning that one major bummer with the new Basic Med is that a pilot holding a Basic Med certificate can only act as a CFII or simulated instrument safety pilot IF they are the Pilot In Command for the flight.

Skylor
This is so stupid. A pilot who can legally be a PIC cannot be a safety pilot when someone else is PIC? The FAA is clearly resisting this as much as they can.
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