Van's Air Force
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RV-12 Insurance...
- Thread starter samsulli
- Start date
Bill_H
Well Known Member
My agent did a GREAT job.
Call Falcon Insurance.
Martha Christian
[email protected]
P. O. Box 489
Humble, TX 77347
PH: 281-540-8822
FAX: 281-540-8222
Call Falcon Insurance.
Martha Christian
[email protected]
P. O. Box 489
Humble, TX 77347
PH: 281-540-8822
FAX: 281-540-8222
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
I am happy to help if you are still looking.
I own Airpower Insurance, am an Experimental Airplane owner, not quite as big as Falcon but I do check my emails at midnight which is sometimes helpful.
Insured a bunch of -12s with Student pilots including the "A.S.K." Rv12 for the youth builder group.
Just happy to help my fellow pilots.
Tj
I own Airpower Insurance, am an Experimental Airplane owner, not quite as big as Falcon but I do check my emails at midnight which is sometimes helpful.
Insured a bunch of -12s with Student pilots including the "A.S.K." Rv12 for the youth builder group.
Just happy to help my fellow pilots.
Tj
I got quotes from half a dozen outfits and agencies, including Van's, AOPA, and EAA affiliated or recommended. Falcon (EAA) was the best by a mile, with a policy that covered during the building stage, hangar contents besides the airplane in event of fire or theft, coverage during ground transport or at another location (like an FBO or paint shop),and importantly Renter's insurance for flight training, or checkout in another airplane. Also, another pilot (if qualified.)
Their rates were about 35% lower than all the rest. They were fast and responsive and easy to deal with.
Bob Bogash
N737G
Their rates were about 35% lower than all the rest. They were fast and responsive and easy to deal with.
Bob Bogash
N737G
You THINK you did, but in reality you got quotes from the first one you called and the five others had nothing to work with and couldn't help you.
Guys - you are wasting your time going to half a dozen BROKERS for quotes. There aren't half a dozen insurance companies out there. All of the brokers have access to all of those companies. Call ONE broker and have them show you ALL the quotes. If you see three or four alternatives, you've seen them all.
Falcon, EAA, AOPA, Nationair, SkySmith, Airpower, etc are Brokers, all representing the same 4-5 insurerers. Calling more than one does you more harm than good.
Geico266
Well Known Member
TJ is a great guy to know, very helpful and honest. You will get straight answers.
http://www.airpowerinsurance.com/
Wrong...
NOT TRUE, Don. The agents are all paid a commission that is set by the insurance company. Agents are prohibited by law in most cases from "marking up" an insurance product. In almost all cases, agents are all paid the same amout (15% of the overall premium). The premium quoted to you by an agent is the premium quoted to the agent by the insurer.
I was an aviation agent for 8 years and an aviation underwriter for 4.
NOT TRUE, Don. The agents are all paid a commission that is set by the insurance company. Agents are prohibited by law in most cases from "marking up" an insurance product. In almost all cases, agents are all paid the same amout (15% of the overall premium). The premium quoted to you by an agent is the premium quoted to the agent by the insurer.
I was an aviation agent for 8 years and an aviation underwriter for 4.
I think what you're seeing is anecdotal evidence from lots of different people about what they are paying, rather than any real aplles to apples data.
Apples to apples is difficult because:
1) People tell what they think that they paid - rounded up or down for dramatic effect, or "misremembered."
2) Quotes vary because of hull value, type aircraft, pilot experience, pilot age, etc.
3) TIME of year - You can't compare a quote that you got yesterday with one that somebody else got 3 months ago, or one that somebody will get next week. All the companies constantly change their pricing to stay with the market.
4) Even quotes on the same airplane change based on slightly different information given or assumed somewhere down the line.
Trust me - there is no SUBSTANTIVE difference in what Airpower or Nationair, or Falcon can deliver to you. The only difference is personal relationship. Pick a broker because you like working with them, they answer your telephone call, and they give you intelligent advice. If they tell you that they have some sort of magic bullet that can save you 15% or more on your airplane insurance, count that as strike one and proceed with extreme caution.
Apples to apples is difficult because:
1) People tell what they think that they paid - rounded up or down for dramatic effect, or "misremembered."
2) Quotes vary because of hull value, type aircraft, pilot experience, pilot age, etc.
3) TIME of year - You can't compare a quote that you got yesterday with one that somebody else got 3 months ago, or one that somebody will get next week. All the companies constantly change their pricing to stay with the market.
4) Even quotes on the same airplane change based on slightly different information given or assumed somewhere down the line.
Trust me - there is no SUBSTANTIVE difference in what Airpower or Nationair, or Falcon can deliver to you. The only difference is personal relationship. Pick a broker because you like working with them, they answer your telephone call, and they give you intelligent advice. If they tell you that they have some sort of magic bullet that can save you 15% or more on your airplane insurance, count that as strike one and proceed with extreme caution.
Bill_H
Well Known Member
I wanted a builder's policy that would cover storm damage to the shop, plus cover the parts when trailering them back and forth to the paint shop and airport. Then converted that to flying coverage. I recommend Martha because of the excellent service in understanding those needs, the fly-off period, E-LSA, etc. I am certain that many others also provide great service!! I am just relating my experience - because Falcon also insured the Bonanza I had a partnership interest in for several years.
Jeff, I'm not a Broker like you, but I can tell you I am sitting on half dozen Aviation Insurance Quotations, and they are all different, vastly different - in coverage, builder's coverage, pilot flight hour requirements, training requirements, on the ground coverage - and Renter's coverage (for sure) - and coverage of a second pilot.
I went out with my RFQ's at the same time - same day - same pilot, same hours, same airplane, same valuation
And the prices are totally different. Totally!
That's not anecdotal - that's a Fact. My uninformed advice - shop around.
Bob Bogash
N737G
I went out with my RFQ's at the same time - same day - same pilot, same hours, same airplane, same valuation
And the prices are totally different. Totally!
That's not anecdotal - that's a Fact. My uninformed advice - shop around.
Bob Bogash
N737G
DonFromTX
Well Known Member
Were these 6 quotes from the same sales guy, or from 6 different sales guys? Were there different amounts from the same insurer?
JDRhodes makes some excellent points, especially with regard to "I am paying this". Anecdotal recollections of insurance paid are on par with True Airspeed claims.
However, I say:
1) Get all the quotes you want:
We are all on computerized quoting now so there really is not any harm as the same underwriters will quote to every agent in the country 500 times-each through these systems.
This is NOT always the case, especially for Lower time pilots or "Special Risk". Some companies like HCC and SAU are superb with newer pilots or higher liability limits but they do "Block" (Clearing the risk through the state system by hand). For these just call me...
2) Pricing may or may not be the same:
Depending on how we input the data into the system the output can be slightly different. I have my own methods, other brokers have theirs. There are some tricks to the system, like any complex system. Sometimes we get lazy and don't check all the boxes just right. It is a competitive market.
By talking to a few brokers you will quickly learn which you want to give your business to.
Its a fun time to be in this business because there are a lot of new younger underwriters and competition changes daily and my fellow competitors are sharp and aggressive and market well.
And now if you will excuse me I have to go pull 18 oil soaked rocker covers to adjust the valves on the Yak annual.
TJ
However, I say:
1) Get all the quotes you want:
We are all on computerized quoting now so there really is not any harm as the same underwriters will quote to every agent in the country 500 times-each through these systems.
This is NOT always the case, especially for Lower time pilots or "Special Risk". Some companies like HCC and SAU are superb with newer pilots or higher liability limits but they do "Block" (Clearing the risk through the state system by hand). For these just call me...
2) Pricing may or may not be the same:
Depending on how we input the data into the system the output can be slightly different. I have my own methods, other brokers have theirs. There are some tricks to the system, like any complex system. Sometimes we get lazy and don't check all the boxes just right. It is a competitive market.
By talking to a few brokers you will quickly learn which you want to give your business to.
Its a fun time to be in this business because there are a lot of new younger underwriters and competition changes daily and my fellow competitors are sharp and aggressive and market well.
And now if you will excuse me I have to go pull 18 oil soaked rocker covers to adjust the valves on the Yak annual.
TJ
Don, I didn't try and reinvent the wheel. And, I haven't sought aviation insurance in half a century. Actually, I never think I ever had it in the old days when I was a kid.
I went with what seemed to be the path of least resistance - the organizations I belong to. EAA, AOPA, and Van's. They freely and openly advertise insurance coverage. A pal of mine gave me the name of some really hot broker in Oregon that he swears by. That's it.
The quotes rolled in within 24 hours. I could see right away there were different flying time and training requirements, different coverages, and vastly different prices.
As a 90 day wonder (and reading some aviation insurance stuff on one of the AOPA/EAA websites), I now knew a few questions to ask. Like Renter's Insurance for example. Or Builder's Coverage on top of just flying coverage.
The losers wouldn't adjust or add that coverage to their quotes. Mostly, they had a blank stare. Renter's insurance? Why do you need that if you own an airplane?
For me, the end was the best of all possible worlds - the best coverage (by far) also came at the lowest cost. I saved $700-800/year - that's not samo-samo to my way of thinking - however the agents manipulated their codings.
Bob Bogash
N737G
I went with what seemed to be the path of least resistance - the organizations I belong to. EAA, AOPA, and Van's. They freely and openly advertise insurance coverage. A pal of mine gave me the name of some really hot broker in Oregon that he swears by. That's it.
The quotes rolled in within 24 hours. I could see right away there were different flying time and training requirements, different coverages, and vastly different prices.
As a 90 day wonder (and reading some aviation insurance stuff on one of the AOPA/EAA websites), I now knew a few questions to ask. Like Renter's Insurance for example. Or Builder's Coverage on top of just flying coverage.
The losers wouldn't adjust or add that coverage to their quotes. Mostly, they had a blank stare. Renter's insurance? Why do you need that if you own an airplane?
For me, the end was the best of all possible worlds - the best coverage (by far) also came at the lowest cost. I saved $700-800/year - that's not samo-samo to my way of thinking - however the agents manipulated their codings.
Bob Bogash
N737G
Correct. Just be sure you pick the right broker. They won't all get quotes from those 4 or 5. In fact, many companies will not give quotes to different brokers for the same individual (would you?). If they think you'll bite, some brokers will just tell you the "best" one. i'm sure JD would agree...know what you want going in and ask to hear each of the quotes.
Bob,
I'm not saying you can't get 6 different quotes. Absolutely you should shop around. What I'm saying is that you're better off getting those 6 quotes from ONE broker. You pay your broker (the insurer actually pays them, but it's part of the premium) to shop the market for you.
If you also involve a bunch of different brokers, then what you have is 6 different brokers, all telling you how THEIR quote is the best and the one you should pick. You've left yourself with no one to get advise from - even though you're paying for it.
