Ownership costs?

Ongoing Cost of Ownership

The thought of building an airplane is so exciting. After the initial excitement of building wanes to a more realistic level, we all start thinking about the cost to build it and how we are going to finance it. There is a continuum of circumstances all the way from being able to pay cash up front, to "pay as you go," to mortage the farm and first born. I wonder if some of us may be letting the excitement get the best of us and we may not be looking far enough down the road and considering the cost of ownership as well.

The cost to build is somewhat finite and depends upon the configuration and options chosen. We can fairly accuratly state that it will cost $40K, $50K, $60K, or whatever to build a plane. But I wonder what percentage of builders get the plane finished or get 3/4 of the way through and then come to the realization that maybe they can't afford to house, maintain, feed, and fly the thing. Seems to me that I have seen a couple of planes/projects being sold because, "Need the money for a house," or "having a child and need the money for other priorities," etc.

I am not looking for a pep talk about how if I give up cigarettes or make my kids pay their own way through college or drive a 75 Falcon that I can afford to fly. We all have to set priorities and make sacrifices (well most of us do), so I think given the information everyone can make the decisions for themselves. But in order to make an informed decision, we do need to understand what some of those ongoing costs are going to be. What I am looking for is some feedback on how much I should plan to budget in order to fly an RV. Is $300 a month realistic? $500 a month? $1000 a month? $1500? Way more?

I realize that prices for hangar and fuel and insurance vary and cost is dependent upon hours flown, but I am looking for examples from those willing to share their actual experience. If you are willing I would also appreciate knowing how much you fly and a quick itemization of what your budget includes.

Just pulling stuff out of my, errrrrr, hat I came up with this:

Hangar Rental: $1200 - $3000 per year
Fuel: 150 hours per year x $3.75 per gallon x 11 gallons per hour = $6200
Insurance: $1200 - $2000 per year
Oil Changes: 2 x $50 = $100
Maintenance items (WAG): $1500 per year???
Add-ons and upgrades (another WAG): $2500 per year??

Total annual cost of ownership: $12,600 to $15,200
Monthly budget to feed the frenzy: $1000 - $1300 + note if financed

Am I way off?

Yeah I know - Owning and flying an RV - Priceless!

Tom,

To some extent I think you need to break out the principal costs, as well as upgrades that increase the value of the plane (although most do not, at least not to the extent we think they will!). While they still figure in the cash flow requirement, assuming you're not underinsured and corkscrew that little puppy into the ground, most, if not all of those expenses will be recouped upon sale. However, go ahead and figure in the interest paid.

When I lived in Houston my hangar costs were running at $2700 per year, but then the Cherokee only cost me $900 for insurance. In Detroit my hangar is $2000 per year, but I've been told to look for $1800 to 2400 for insurance (500+ hours, minimal TD time!) on my -4.

Doing a roughly accurate analysis of the cost of ownership of the Cherokee for a three year period, my "operating costs" were well over $90 per hour. Improvements made did increase the value of the plane, but the additional 250 or so hours of use grawed away at much of that. Granted, my costs would have been somewhat lower on a homebuilt (AP/IA/"Approved parts"), but I already did most of the maintenance myself. When it was all over and done with, I decided that I could rent a Bonanza from a club I belonged to for less than what it cost me for the Cherokee! Obviously not an RV grin there, but the BO is a nice plane, and nothing to be ashamed of!

But then, there were the reservation restrictions and conflicts, never knowing what the maintenance schedule was going to be when you were ready to fly, etc., etc., etc.

I suspect most owners will agree that unless you're flying 150 - 200 hours a year, ownership doesn't cut it strictly from the economics standpoint. But then, if you want to fly when you want to fly, and have confidence in what you're flying and that it is well maintained.........

I think the overall averge for PP's these days is about 25 hours per year. I've been averaging 75, owning my own plane. I know other owners that have barely done the 25! When you consider that the real out of pocket expense for flying is the fuel, even at $40 per hour (although I do think that is a bit high), that only amounts to $3000 per year for my hours, and will represent a minor percentage of the total cost.

FWIW, there's my numbers!

Dave

RV on a budget

Hanger 1K to ?? 6k
RV Kit standard 18K
Lycoming 0- 320-H2AD 1800 hours TT 4K
Firewall FWD stuff/ prop/ exhaust ect 4K
Panel: BASIC !!!
oil pressure/ temp/ fuel pres,
air speed/ alt
GPS III / hand held
Com/cheepest 1K
Seats/Belts 1K
+Stuff I left out?? 2K

Build and fly for close to $30K. RV any thing.
Use car gas, no paint, wood prop, no insur..
Go fly, have fun, join the family!!
Spend all,,,, leave nothing.

I built an RV for under 30. I know it can be done.

You have raised some very good points. I got my license more than 30 years ago. After 2 years of flying, I decided that my wife and young children were more important than flying. I stopped and only started flying again 3 years ago after the children were on their own. Since I started flying again I only fly 12 hours per year. The cost has been $90 per hour. Twelve hours per year is not enough to really stay proficient.
I hope to be able to start an RV within the next year. I estimate the completed aircraft to cost around $70,000. AOPA has a site that will help estimate the ownership costs. For the flying I hope to do, the estimater returns an annual the following:
"Total Costs

Total Fixed Costs: $ 39.50 per flight hour
Total Variable Costs: + $ 39.62 per flight hour
Total Cost per Flight Hour: $ 79.12 per hour


Using your estimate of 100 flight hours per year
Total Annual Operating Costs: $7912 per year

These calculations do not include reserve costs for engine and propeller overhaul.
These are only a factor if you expect to keep the aircraft to TBO (Time Between Overhaul)."
These numbers should be accurate. For budget purposes I have been estimating around $10,000 per year. The AOPA estimate of $80 per hr is somewhat better than the $90 for rental. If I fly more than the 100 hrs that I chose to use for the estimate, the extra hours will be at $40 per hour. This does not include any capital cost for building/purchasing. I expect to recover those cost at the end of my flying days by selling the aircraft.
Zack

I, for one, wish that all aircraft owners stop lumping all their costs into one bucket and calculating cost per hour. It is not accurate. It is only for the benefit of FBO's who rent planes and need to show a profit. You don't need to show a profit. Your costs should be broken down into three areas.

Fixed Costs - The amount it will cost you to keep the plane whether you fly 1 hour or 1000 hours a year. These include hangar rent, insurance, and Annual.

Variable Flight Costs - These are your actual costs of flying the plane. Gas, Oil, Period. This number can be divided by hours flown to give you an idea of what your flying costs you.

Variable Maintenance Costs - Costs of recurring and one-time maintenance items. Oil filters, tires, brakes, spark plugs, etc. This number should be added to your fixed costs to give you annual cost of ownership.

Nowhere do I include engine overhaul funds. Why? Because in the 40+ years since I have been around aviation, I have never met one owner who actually put away funds towards an overhaul. When the time came they either paid the piper (pun) or sold the plane because they could not afford it.

Anything else is an elective expense and should not be included in your costs at all. an example is that new whizz-bang GPS/Comm with built in DVD player for inflight movies. But you just had to have it.

So, has anyone ever calulated their cost per hour of driving their car??????
I didn't think so.

Greg Piney
RV-8 Gonnabe Fall 2005

zspivey said:

You have raised some very good points. I got my license more than 30 years ago. After 2 years of flying, I decided that my wife and young children were more important than flying. I stopped and only started flying again 3 years ago after the children were on their own. Since I started flying again I only fly 12 hours per year. The cost has been $90 per hour. Twelve hours per year is not enough to really stay proficient.
I hope to be able to start an RV within the next year. I estimate the completed aircraft to cost around $70,000. AOPA has a site that will help estimate the ownership costs. For the flying I hope to do, the estimater returns an annual the following:
"Total Costs

Total Fixed Costs: $ 39.50 per flight hour
Total Variable Costs: + $ 39.62 per flight hour
Total Cost per Flight Hour: $ 79.12 per hour


Using your estimate of 100 flight hours per year
Total Annual Operating Costs: $7912 per year

These calculations do not include reserve costs for engine and propeller overhaul.
These are only a factor if you expect to keep the aircraft to TBO (Time Between Overhaul)."
These numbers should be accurate. For budget purposes I have been estimating around $10,000 per year. The AOPA estimate of $80 per hr is somewhat better than the $90 for rental. If I fly more than the 100 hrs that I chose to use for the estimate, the extra hours will be at $40 per hour. This does not include any capital cost for building/purchasing. I expect to recover those cost at the end of my flying days by selling the aircraft.
Zack

Click to expand...

Zack,

My numbers are almost identical in terms of original ticket 30 years ago, quit, started again 5 years ago, etc. However, I've been running 75 hours per year since, and do enjoy the level of proficiency that comes from that. I'm hoping that the RV will allow me to do some additional types of flying that the Cherokee wasn't suited to, so 100+ per year might be about right.

I won't be under the 30K that Jay was, but I'll be equipped a bit differently, the way I want, and will still be under $40K. There is a lot to be said for Jay's philosophy, as I'm already spending my Grandchildrens' inheiritance!

But it still comes down to the hours, or it doesn't! If you don't care, it doesn't matter. If you do care, go flying at least the rate of 50 - 75 hours per year and see if you can really make the time and actually want to. Still cheaper than your projections, and you may find that your interest isn't that great! A lot of people can't or won't. I added a Instrument and Commercial rating flying those hours, probably would not have flown that much without those challenges.

Dave

Cost of vehicle operation

Greg Piney said:


"So has anyone ever calulated their cost per hour of driving their car??????"



Here ya go:

"AAA Says Average Driving Cost Is 56.2 Cents Per Mile For 2004

San Francisco, April 8, 2004- The average cost of driving a new passenger car in 2004 is 56.2 cents per mile or $8,431 per year, AAA's annual Your Driving Costs study shows. AAA has reported on the average estimated cost of owning and operating a new car each year since 1950."


Note that it says NEW car. At 60 MPH this works out to $ 33.72 per hour. That would be 250 hours at 60 MPH by the way.

This got me to calculate that I do, in fact, drive about 240 hours a year to work and back (only). Also my 1999 Ford Ranger is costing me about $ 4400 a year for fuel and car payments-not including maintenance.

another view on cost of ownership

Tom,

Thanks for starting this thread. I?ve been lurking for about a year now, but haven?t taken the plunge yet. This is just the type of discussion I?ve been waiting for to pull me back down from the clouds.

I?m sure my ?cost of capital? line item will be contentious, but I don?t think it can be ignored to accurately evaluate the cost of owning vice renting. Yes I know there are numerous intangible characteristics of owning your own plane, but that?s an individual judgment call as to their value.

Assumptions: RV-10, $100K to build, 7% annual cost of capital, fuel price $3.75/gallon, fuel flow 11 gph, principle of $100K re-paid over 15 years.

Fixed costs--$12,100 per year. ($2,400/yr hangar rent; $1,200/yr insurance; $1,500/yr miscellaneous maintenance; $7,000/yr cost of capital )

Variable costs--$42 per hour

* * * Summary * * *

Total costs at different usage rates.
250 hrs/yr - $90/hr
125 hrs/yr - $139/hr
50 hrs/yr - $284/hr


Monthly cash flow:
250 hrs/yr - $1,008 fixed, $869 variable, $556 capital payment = $2,433 total
125 hrs/yr - $1,008 fixed, $435 variable, $556 capital payment = $1,999 total
50 hrs/yr - $1,008 fixed, $174 variable, $556 capital payment = $1,738 total

Flame suite donned.

-Jim
RV-10 want-a-be ... maybe

Wow, and I thought I was the nerdy engineer.

Basically the costs break down like this:

airplane cost: more than you thought
hanger, insurance, repairs: what, oh yea, didn't think about those
fuel: damn this gets expensive

total: a bunch a money to burn holes in the sky for no real reason other than it's fun. You would have pissed that money away 50 bucks at a time if you didn't have a plane anyway.

You can't under any situation justify building an airplane, so just stop trying to justify it. Adjust your budget as needed and go flying, you don't need any more reason than you want to.

N916k.....

Nice response! You summarized things very nicely! I agree with your entire post!

Yup!

After previously owning three other aircraft and now building the fourth, I figure it's pretty much impossible to fly for less than 100 bucks an hour. The most private flying I ever did in one year was 150 hours. That's a lot of time for private flying and most pilots never get close to that. Seventyfive to one hundred hours a year would be a more realistic maximum.

Like the man said, nobody can rationally justify the expense of private flying. When you love to fly and you love airplanes, you belly up to the bar and order. If you are not in love, it's very easy to rationalize your way out of ever building or owning an airplane.

I'm building my first airplane, (discounting a Rogallo Wing back in the 70's) and it's a bit scary, very challenging, and pretty damn neat. I just can't wait to climb into this baby and bore some holes in the sky!

Can you feel the love?

Cheers, Pete

Well Yes and No

"You can't under any situation justify building an airplane, so just stop trying to justify it. "

Not trying to rationalize it or justify it, just trying to understand it. The only thing I see that could be worse than not building a plane would be to build one and then not be able to afford to fly it. I am not sure all of us fully understand the ongoing costs of owning one of these puppies. Unless one is financially independent, costs do matter.

I Do Feel The Love

And the excitement, and the longing, and the desire, and the fun. So dang the torpedoes full speed ahead!

I thought the thread might go this direction and I didn't mean for it to do so. I was looking for some logical input on the cost of owning and operating an RV. If $100 per hour is the magic number then so be it. I am not saying one number is reasonable and one is not. There are folks who are financially independent or have found other ways to finance their flying, so cost may not be an issue to them. But at the other end of the spectrum there are others who scrape and claw or go into some pretty hefty debt to build, only to discover that they can't afford to fly when the building is completed. I suspect most people who decide to build are probably somewhere in the middle. They make a descent income, but yet have to make some serious adjustments to their lifestyle to build and own. And that is OK, if it doesn't impact the family to much and if it doesn't put them too much into debt. I am not making a judgmental decision as to whether or not someone should spend their money on an airplane, but rather I am trying to help people and me understand just how much of our money we are likely to spend if we make the decison to do so. I think the question is relevant and to just ignore the costs that exist after the building is done is not a smart thing to do. Rationalize? No! As you and others have said, it can't be done. But to throw caution to the wind is not the prudent thing to do either. Knowledge is power and no matter how much money one has, understanding exactly where it might be going is the key to keeping out of financial trouble. As much as I would like everyone to be able to build and fly an RV, I certainly don't want anyone to put all of those hours into building and then be forced to sell or worse yet, force themselves into bankruptcy.

Thanks for your input.

There's no doubt that flying is expensive. But so far my RV6A is far cheaper to operate than my Cherokee was for three simple reasons:

1 - It will cruise at 150 MPH on 6.2 GPH instead of 100 MPH at 8.4 GPH.
2 - It's not 30 years old, so I don't have $500 worth of broken parts on every annual.
3 - I can do all the maintenance myself.

My actual numbers are way lower than your estimates:

Hangar rental -- I own instead of rent. My lot rent is $600/year.
Flying hours -- I WISH I could find time to put in 150 hours a year. I'm lucky if I get in 70.
GPH -- You don't HAVE to burn 11 GPH. Buy an O-320 and use the big knobs properly and you can can enjoy an hour in the air for 6 gallons.
Fuel -- You're actually paying $3.75? You need to move. I've never paid that much even when traveling. $2.75-$3.00 seems typical.
Insurance -- $1350
Maintenance -- My Spruce bill last year was under $200.
Oil changes -- 3 a year, not 2. But you only need a filter on every other one. And two of them are cheaper single-weight oil. Total: $110/year
Upgrades -- Doesn't count, but so far I haven't needed any.

Total cost last year: $3557.50. $300/month.

It's an expensive hobby, but I can afford that much for something this much fun. My brother-in-law spends more than that on golf.

Thanks Jon.

Expensive is relative, right That is why I tried to word the question properly to address this. I appreciate you sharing the numbers with me. I don't think moving to obtain cheaper fuel is a good option. I picked that figure as a worse case scenario. You are right that upgrades should probably not be included, I was thinking that if one has the toy one will add things to it but I guess that applies to any hobby. And yes golf can be darn right expensive if played frequently, or even infrequently if country club dues are included in the picture.

This information helps me a good deal. Thanks for offering it up.

I assume you are running a 320 in your plane. Which prop are you using and how is the panel equipped? Would you mind sharing your total build cost?

Thanks again!

OK, you got me. It's cheap to operate, but it sure wasn't cheap to build. I know one guy personally who says he spent less than $30K on his RV. But most folks spend more like $60-70K.

O-320, 160HP. Hartzell C/S prop. Garmin stack w/ 430.

re: cost

I couldn't have said it any better myself than N916K. If you think you have to justify it, don't even bother getting your license.
Although, it can be reasonably less expensive than the numbers I've seen here.
I live on a private airport, no dues, bought ownership, (one time thing).
I Own my own hanger, 4320 sq. ft., that serves to house other "toys" as well as the RV10. Ownership doesn't really have to be expensive.
How much does it cost to own a boat, that in this part of the country is only good for, say......... 3 months out of the year (Oklahoma)?

Marshall Alexander
RV10 Builder

<zspivey wrote:> "You have raised some very good points. I got my license more than 30 years ago. After 2 years of flying, I decided that my wife and young children were more important than flying. I stopped and only started flying again 3 years ago after the children were on their own."
******

This sounds like me. Got my license 24 years ago, but my kids are not out of the house yet. I just started flying again after a 22 year break. I started to check out in a C-140 so I can build tail wheel time. I am planning on following Jay Pratt?s approach. I don't think I can make it as low as the 30K level but think I can make an RV-7 for 40K. I plan on a bare machine, with four kids I fly on CAVU days only. If Duane Cole could fly all over the country VFR for all those years and not miss any air shows I can make do with a basic VFR machine.

I have been using 100$/hr and 50 hours/year as my target numbers. My main concern is not the money to build as much as the time factor. I just finished building a mission style bed that took only 80 shop hours to build but 6 months of calendar time. If I can?t realistically improve my shop time numbers without trashing my family life the RV7 may become a retirement project and I will be in the market for a used RV4.

John

Ditto

It is impossible to justify the cost of owning a plane, boat, skiing, scuba diving, golf, going to a football, baseball or basketball game or any other leisure time activity. We do it because we enjoy it and are fortunate enough to have the time and opportunity living in this country. Flying should not take food off of the table. Flying should bring enjoyment. If you want to make $2,000,000 flying you have to start with $4,000,000. George

How much ya got?

How much does it cost? Well, to quote the crooked mechanics in the National Lampoon movie "Vacation" : "How much ya got?"

155 hrs in the first six months, and it would be more except for the challenging weather in N.Dakota. So, fuel is a big cost for me.

You can save money if you're willing to accept some risk: skip hull insurance(and make sure you don't crash), find an inexpensive place to hangar, use AirNav.com or AeroPlanner.com to find cheap fuel locally and for XC trips, camp in a tent when on XC trips, stop watching/paying for TV (a total waste of flying time/building time/money), make adjustments in your budget: figure out what you need vs. what you want, sell that $40,000 gas-guzzling automobile and get something a bit more reasonable, don't ever buy the biggest house you can possibly afford, and don't buy anything from an "Info-mercial".

However, do not ever compromise on maintenance/safety. Always change your oil at 25 hrs, always change your spark plugs and clean your filters, etc.

Mark Andrews

N916k

Amen Brother. Your post says it well.
I spent 19 years ,16 to 38, NOT flying bacause I tried to Justify it.
Aviation has given me more than I have given it. Friends like Doug,Don,Smokey, Danny,Ross, Billy, Martin, and so many others have made this hobby the best thing in my life. I have friends in Georga, Washington,New Mexico, Co, OR,Fl, and California thanks to RVs.
The money spent is nothing compared to the rewards I have received.
Thanks to All RVers
Any one on the fence jump in, the waters warm.

Bring the thread back on track please.

Ok Ok I got it, flying is great and we can't justify the cost just like other expensive hobbies. No argument from anyone. The enjoyment is great, the friends are great, the freedom is great, RVs are great, yes it is expensive. I think we all know this and agree with it. No arguments. We know about cutting out cigarettes, and cable TV, and driving the old clunker, and cutting out bee...cigarettes, and cutting out bee...cable TV, and living in a smaller house, etc. etc. But still after all of the cost cutting, there is still some amount of money needed to support the hobby. Not saying that there isn't money to free up, just curious about how much needs to be freed up.

So, the question is not, "Is it worth it if I can afford it," we all know it is. The question is "How much do I need to budget so I can reasonably enjoy the hobby." My intent was to get some real world numbers about how much people are spending and what that amount buys them. We can use retail rates of $100 per hour or whatever as a guideline, but I believe the general thinking is that one of the advantages of building is a cost savings afterwards. Perhaps, but perhaps not. But without real-world numbers, we can't make an informed decision and we can't determine if our budget will allow us to fly 50 hours a year, 100 hours a year, 500 hours a year, or 0 hours per year.

Anyway, thanks for all of the feedback, especially those who responded with real world numbers. Your input has been very helpful. It looks like after building I can look forward to a budget comparable to the payments on a 2005 Ford Excursion.

Actual Operating Costs

With ~2900 hours in ~9 years, I feel 'qualified' to share with you our cost per hour of flying our RV-6A.

This is REALLY long so save it away for later if you don't have time for it now but I believe I've included a different 'look' to operating costs of an RV.

Our plane took 5 years to build, and during that time, working two jobs, I was able to earn (save) 35K and also borrowed then paid off 35K (I used the pink slips on our cars and boat to secure a 35K personal loan that we paid off in 4 years while we built our plane). Our 70K plane was paid for the day it flew so I do not figure that money into our operating costs.

Tom Prokop once said and it is worth repeating since it is SO true: "I think you are fooling yourself if you think owning is cheaper than renting. But there are not many airplanes that perform like the RV that you can rent. On the other side, my hangar is my clubhouse. I can go there any time and gaze at an airplane that is always ready for me to fly it. It is always clean and has no maintenance squawks. The quality of the people you find in the RV crowd is just amazing. And, of the 40 or so models of GA airplanes I have flown, none match the RV in total performance. The feeling of accomplishment and true satisfaction from building and flying my RV is substantial. It's just way too much fun. **** the cost, I wouldn't have it any other way!"

I couldn't have put it better Tom...
***********************************
The costs that I use for our RV-6A are either FIXED or HOURLY, and here's how I break them down:

FIXED costs per year: Insurance, property tax and hangar. Whether I fly or not, these fixed costs have to be paid. These numbers will vary widely as insurance, property tax and hangar will vary greatly...

**Hangar, park outside if you wish but our 'baby' goes inside.
**Property Tax, I know of only one RVer who does not pay this and it's because he flies off his dirt strip in the middle of nowhere...I'm guessing the State will eventually catch up to him by N number.
**Insurance, you can 'uninsure' your plane if you don't fly it but if the hangar falls on it or someone runs into it if you keep it outside, you are SOL. Gary Sobek can tell you all about cars hitting RVs...

HOURLY costs: Fuel, oil/filter/analysis, engine reserve.

**Fuel, gotta buy it unless you are nuclear powered.
**Oil/filter/analysis, whether your plane flies or sits, you have to change the oil. I take an oil sample at every oil change for peace-of-mind.
**Engine Reserve, one day you'll need $10K to rebuild your tired engine.

Notice that I do NOT include any hourly costs for anything maintenance-related since I really don't know what is going to need replacing....the cost for a part that breaks could be $1 to $1000: You don't know how much until it breaks. Thus, it's very hard to include this in a per-hour cost until the end of the year when you add all the other things together.

At the end of your 'year', figure these in to get closer to your per-hour cost but for now, 'you can't fix it if it ain’t broke'. For a new RV with a new motor, our maintenance costs in 4.5 years has been mostly tires/tubes/oil/oil filters. Yes, I've had some repair costs for other than these items: New Mags: $1500, 4 Alternators: $50/each, replace MAC servo; $70, Starter Repair: $100, Radio Repair: $400 and these numbers have been factored in to my actual yearly costs below.

Ok, here are the numbers and my 'approach' to how much it costs to own and fly our RV-6A:

FIXED (per year):
Insurance $1200 (Full coverage, 75K value)
property tax $600
hangar $1800 ($150/month)

TOTAL FIXED: $3600

Note: This fixed cost of $3600 is $300/month, which is much less than the cost of a monthly car payment. I think of it as a $300 per month 'plane payment', paid every month, for as long as we own our plane (roughly $10/day forever whether you fly it or not)

HOURLY:
Fuel at ~8gal/hr @ $2.50/gal is $20
Oil/Filter/Analysis $1 (it's about $50 after 50 hrs of flying)
Engine Reserve $5 (after 2000 hours, you'll have 10K in the bank)

TOTAL HOURLY: $26

THE PUNCH LINE: HOUR #1 COST IS $3600 (fixed) + $26 (hourly) = $3626

The VERY first hour of the year we fly costs us $3626 and after that, we fly by the hourly rate, which is approximately $26/hour.

Obviously, everyone will have a different cost for your first-hour but the overall hourly cost may not be far off. Your mileage may vary, offer not valid in Mexico, void where prohibited... Yes, everything can be cheaper or cost more but I use these numbers as an average...

Also notice that these costs do not include any spending money, show entrance fees, souvenirs, rental car, hotel, food etc. for the time after your arrive at your destination. I don't care about those numbers as they are 'incidentals' to flying. I don't track them anywhere, and I don't want to know what they are. Those costs are the 'frosting on the cake' after you work your butt off on your plane and start flying it! Why fly a plane somewhere if you can't afford it when you get there!?!

Here are actual costs for our RV-6A since we started flying on July 4, 2000.

2000: $25.57/hour flying 300 hours ($7.6K for Jul-Dec)
2001: $25.49/hour flying 510 hours ($13K/yr)
2002: $26.21/hour flying 450 hours ($11.8K/yr)
2003: $25.68/hour flying 450 hours ($11.5K/yr)
2004: $36.50/hour flying 300 hours ($10.9K/yr)
2005: $84.15/hour flying 310 hours ($26.1K/yr: Includes new BMA EFIS & A/P, SL-30, C/S prop)
2006: $52.57/hour flying 140 hours ($7.4K/yr: Spent $$$ on having our skypark home built with 'free' hangar space ;-)
2007: $104.54/hour flying 250 hours (26.1K/yr: Includes engine overhaul at 2500 hrs ;-)
2008: $53.27/hour flying 125 hours (6.7K/yr: The price of avgas was big $$$ so we stayed home like the rest of you :-(

Our average monthly cost to fly is approximately $1200/month (July 2000-Dec 2008). From 1990-2007, (6yrs not building, 5yrs building, 6yrs flying), I worked two jobs (sub-teaching school by day, Lockheed by night). School ALMOST kept up with the flying as I made anywhere from $800-$1200/month. Lockheed promoted me to dayshift in mid-2007 so I now substitute 2 days/month (and donate the $200 back to the school ;-)

Yes, I owe money to Chevron and AIR BP every month but that's Ok because WE FLY! As Tom Prokop wrote, '**** the cost, I wouldn't have it any other way!"

So now you all see why I worked two jobs! It was a 15-hour workday but it was ALL worth it! We have a credit card bill just like everyone else. The only difference is in total hours flown (and flying to 49 states & the Bahamas & the Turks/Caicos & the Cayman Islands

You will LOVE your RV when you finish!!!!

I hope that I've shed a 'different' light on the costs of owning an RV: One hour is expensive, and the rest are cheap!

Keep poundin' them rivets! Rosie

http://www.PaulRosales.com/

PS: I confess...I don't have 10K in the bank

The bottom line...ownership vs. renting.

I have read all the posts and we are definitely divided into two camps: budgetary and emotional. I was in the budgetary side when I started my RV-9A in the fall of 2002. As I approach the finish line I find myself going into the emotional column.

The thing that stands out NOW is the thought of 2005 Homecoming at Van's. I have already been to the factory in May 2004. It is all those places in between here and there that get me excited! Those are places I would not even think about going in a rented Cessna 172. Yet, with an RV-9A, I can go 50 MPH faster and do it on my schedule, not worrying about who has the airplane next hour. I have already started planning the trip with my AOPA airport directory and the Airnav fuel stops, food stops, etc.

At age 57, I have learned that for day-to-day living, having short-term goals that are possible provides a good outlook on life. Having a BIG long-term goal gives you a reason to get up every day and keep working on the RV. The "RV Grin" is the result of reaching one long-term goal, then setting new long-term goals: places to see by air.

I lived in Florida for 24 years and learned to fly there - FLAT and boring. I have come home to the area where I grew up - near the Tennessee Valley around Chattanooga and the mountains of North Georgia, NC, and East Tennessee. I am ready to see the Golden Gate Bridge and the Pacific Ocean from the vantage point of my RV. I have driven East from Portland along the banks of the Columbia River, but I want to see it from a higher vantage point.

After more than $67,500 in airplane parts (full IFR, new engine, new Hartzell CS prop), I recognize that it is all an investment instead of putting the money in my 401K Vanguard funds that are subject to the ups and downs of the stock market. By the time it is painted and equipped with a full interior, RV-9A "Enterprise" should top out around $75K. That does not include the cost of "aircraft construction tools" at $4400.

As far as operating costs, I am not there yet of course, but the desire to fly is what drives ALL of US!

Jerry K. Thorne
RV-9A 90622
www.n2prise.org

Actual Operating Expense

Rosie,

You hit the rivet on the head. This is the way aircraft expense should be handled by the private owner. I still feel that you should remove the overhaul fund from your calculations unless you really put away the money each month in a separate account.

Greg Piney
RV-8 Gonnabe Fall 2005

Awesome

Not that's what I'm talking about! Excellent write up Rosie. Thank-you very much for sharing your personal data with some history behind it as well. This is very informative and very helpful to potential builders.

You obviously love what you are doing and have been able to fly a lot more hours than the typical ower. How do you make the time to do all of that flying with two jobs?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my question.

Friends and Costs

Yep I am one of Jay Pratt's friends in California and he is one of mine in Texas. Without the airplane, we would not have met. I got my license in 1982. I only had 210 hours in 1997 when I few my own RV. Never enough time or money. The RV has changed me more than anything else in my life including two divorces.

Back in 1987, I told a coworker that was 72-years-old, I was going to build an airplane when I retire. He told me not to wait and do it now so that I can enjoy it when I retire. I followed his advice. How do I pay for it? Well back in 1987, if someone GAVE me the airplane, it would find $75 a week to fly it. I started putting the money in my credit union and paid as I went. The airplane was budgeted at $35K. With a 4% per year inflation, actual cost was $50K with paint after first flight in 1997. 8.5 years of building and saving but paid for when done and very close to budget ($200 over).

My operating costs are very close to Rosie as we fly together a lot but he flys more than me as I only have 1,624+ hours in 7 years 5 months.

18 months after first flight, I had 307 hours on the airplane. I was out flying around with Paul (Rosie) before his airplane was finished. We flew around then went to my hangar for an oil change. Paul was just staring to do his firewall forward and wanted to take a look. After flying Paul home, I returned to base and refueled. Following refueling, I stated to taxi back to may hangar on the taxiway. (Taxiway was an old abandoned runway.) A car (Ford Thunderbird) ran into my airplane.

Anyway, looking at my records, I found that my average cost to fly was $1,800 per month over the past 18 months. I was sick and was not going to do without an airplane. I knew that the car was in the wrong and should fix my airplane. I had GROUND Insurance coverage but since it was a cut and dry case, decided to collect from the AUTO. This required $11K in attorney fees and 2.5 years to collect.

I felt I was in the right so gambled and took out a $50K loan on my 401K at work. Payments were $1,200 per month but since I spent $1,800 on flying per month, I knew I could pay it back. Plan was to pay an attorney, rebuild my -6, and buy an RV-3 to fly till it was done. I did not FILE a claim with my insurance. Insurance will pay 70% of insured value without TOTALING the airplane. Damage was so close to being totaled that I gambled. Yes I got 100% after suing the car driver but they do not pay attorney fees in California so only had about $1K less than I would have had I filed a claim with my insurance. I did not buy the -3 but had my -6 flying in 4 months and 1 week thanks to the help of many flying friends whose names are too many to list. Parts replaced include prop, crank, engine mount, landing gear, firewall, cockpit floor, tail spring, back two bulkheads, wheel pants, and right brake disc.

The moral of this story is that after having an airplane to fly anytime I wanted. I WAS NOT going to do without the airplane. I was NOT going to be without an airplane in the summer. I took the first 2-week vacation in my life with the airplane. I have had at least a 2-week flying vacation every year since the airplane made first flight.

My 72-year-old co-worker was correct. Build it now and enjoy it. I will add that life is too short. My parents worked hard and saved for retirement. Now that they are retired, they have the money but my father's health is not good enough to travel and do what he was saving for.

I am saving for retirement. I am putting 20% of my pay into my 401K and 3% into a contributory retirement plan. I can retire in 7.25 years. I also have $10K in the bank for my engine reserve. I have a home payment and a car payment but no other debt. I spend everything else on flying. If I need too, I will cut back somewhere to keep flying but I will fly as long as I am HEALTHY and the aircraft I am flying is SAFE. I live to fly!

I am thinking of upgrading my O-320 to a 360-kit engine like Doug is doing. I do not need the 180HP but want it. I fly a lot of formation and need to run my 320 wide open to keep up with the 360s flying lead in formation. I can keep up with them but if I make one small mistake and get out of place, I CAN NOT get back in position. I am ready to reduce my savings so as to afford the bigger engine.

Part of the reason that I have liability coverage only on my airplane is that it has given me more pleasure for the money it has cost than I could have gotten out of the money any other way.

Flying has given me more than I have given it. If I did not have an RV, I would give up all my material possession to get one.

Gary

PS: Now you know how I earned the Call Sign, BirdStrike!

Ongoing Cost of Ownership

N916K said:

Basically the costs break down like this:

airplane cost: more than you thought
hanger, insurance, repairs: what, oh yea, didn't think about those
fuel: damn this gets expensive

total: a bunch a money to burn holes in the sky for no real reason other than it's fun. You would have pissed that money away 50 bucks at a time if you didn't have a plane anyway.

Click to expand...

Well Said. If you are seriously considering doing this, then do it. If the desire is there, you'll make it work financially some how. And if you are like me, you will realize it is the single most rewarding thing you've ever done.

Tom Maxwell said:

Not that's what I'm talking about! Excellent write up Rosie. Thank-you very much for sharing your personal data with some history behind it as well. This is very informative and very helpful to potential builders.

You obviously love what you are doing and have been able to fly a lot more hours than the typical owner. How do you make the time to do all of that flying with two jobs?

Thanks again for taking the time to respond to my question.

Click to expand...

I'm glad I could get you the info you were looking for Tom! No fuzzy math there

On how we find time to fly so much; I get 4 weeks vacation per year plus 1 week at Thanksgiving and Christmas. We use that time for traveling back east to visit friends. One week trips usually put 50hrs on the hobbs.

I'm also on a 9/80 work schedule so I get a 3-day weekend every other weekend. It's not unusual for us to cover a few states in 3 days e.g. We'll leave early Friday for Idaho, spend Saturday afternoon/evening in Utah, Sunday in Nevada then home by dark (putting 10hrs on the hobbs).

We may make a SoCAL breakfast/lunch flyout during the week if I'm not teaching, but most of our flying is done on the weekends.

We built our plane to travel around the country, and we all know RVs truly are great traveling machines!

This year we'll be cutting way back on the flight hours as we start to build our Rosamond Skypark (L00) home, and we look forward to having RVers stop in, hopefully late this year Rosie

Cost of ownership

Real Numbers are always subject to regional effects. So you must take that into consideration. A Hanger Rental in the Boston area is likely to cost 3-4 times the cost of a hanger at a small underused airport in West Texas.

Insurnace as a fixed costs can be estimated based on hull value insured.

Flying costs are going to run about $40.00 per hour for a big 4 seat airplane and as low as $20.00 per hour for a small 2 seat airplane.

If you are flying just for fun build a low power low fuel consumption 2 seater. If you are flying cross country either build a fast 2 or 4 seater depending on max number of people going. From my experiences in a 150 HP RV-6A I can fly cross country almost as cheap as driving and a whole lot faster. I am currently building an RV-10 and the costs will be higher than driving but if I am going with four people the costs will be a lot less than the airlines in almost the same amount of time.

As regards the investment in building the airplane vs. buying, depending on what you build you may or may not get your investment back (without any payment for your labor). You can check out the prices of most used homebuilts and get a pretty good picture of return on investment.

A good rule of thumb is the kit price will usually only amount to about one third of the total investment in getting the kit plane flying. Naturally the price could be five times higher if you go with a new factory engine, prop, and state of the art instruments.

I have bought and sold six used airplanes over the last thirty years and have never lost money on any of them. Net to date on the six airplanes is about $30,000.00. Building a new kit plane is more like buying a new car, after it has been built is is hard to get the original price back on the sale. There are exceptions to that and I have seen used RV's sale for prices that in all likelyhood netted the builder a nice profit. I have also seen RV's sold for what I would consider less than the costs of building them (excluding labor costs).

In contrast, if you went out an bought a new corvette, you wouldn't expect to drive it for 15 years and get back what you paid for it, so unless the market really changes over the next 15 years you couldn't expect to build an RV-7, put in a new factory engine and prop, state of the art instruments and get back the initial investment after flying it 15 years. So what, in either case you would have had the JOY of either driving the corvette or flying the RV-7 for 15 years.

You could rent an apartment or house without a garage cheaper than one with, and leave your new corvette outside to be subject to the elements and likewise you could rent a hanger to keep your new RV-7 in or leave it out in the elements.

The real question regarding ownership of an airplane verses renting is which fits your needs better. When I go somewhere for a week that takes 2-3 hours to fly there I don't have to pay a daily minimum of 2-3 hours rental on the airplane. If I was just flying around the patch for fun and never going anywhere it would be cheaper to rent.

Sorry for being long winded, but you won't get an answer that fits your exact situtation for whether or not renting or building will be cheaper, because everybody's is a little different from yours.

Good luck on your search for your answer.

Off topic, but Rosie, how do you do it?

Rosie said:

I'm also on a 9/80 work schedule so I get a 3-day weekend every other weekend. It's not unusual for us to cover a few states in 3 days e.g. We'll leave early Friday for Idaho, spend Saturday afternoon/evening in Utah, Sunday in Nevada then home by dark (putting 10hrs on the hobbs).
Rosie

Click to expand...

How do you do it?

Seems like every time I try to go somewhere I get nailed by the weather. Just this weekend, I need to pick up my daughter in San Antonio and fly her home to Houston so she can borrow a car for the week while hers is in the shop. As usual, the clear sky prediction for the weekend turned to rain as soon as I needed to fly. So instead of a 2 hour morning errand, now I'm looking at 8 hours in I-10 traffic while my 200 mph time machine sits in the hangar. Grrrr!

And last fall, we tried to use a three-day weekend to see our other daughter in Atlanta. Forecast at the start of the trip was for a week of severe-clear. The trip over was a delightful 4 hours under clear skys with a 20 kt tailwind. Two days later, I had to put my wife on Continental rather than expose her to what I knew lay in store on the way home -- 8 hours of battling headwinds and turbulence at 1500 feet under the overcast, picking my way between the storms by the shades of grey on the horizon.

When I look back over the 6 years I've been flying, I can't think of a single time I've ever been more than 500 miles from home without getting grounded or scared half to death by weather at some point. I read about guys like you and I'm just mystified. How do you do it? Do you just get comfortable with "VFR not recommmended"?

I've been considering going for the IFR ticket, but honestly, I'm not sure it would really help that much. At least VFR, I can choose my route and altitude. If I'd been IFR on that Georgia trip, I'd have spent that 8 hours blindly boring through one storm after another. Doesn't strike me as much of an improvement.

Sorry to get off-topic, but it's something that's been nagging at me ever since that trip. I mean, I've got this great magic carpet, but I'm getting to the point where I'm afraid to use it to actually go anywhere. Then I read about your exploits and I've gotta ask -- what do you know that I haven't figured out yet?

******
Rosie's reply is in a new cross country thread at:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?p=1560&posted=1#post1560

Thanks

I understand exactly what you are talking about. I have a pretty good idea on the capital cost of owning and understand the intangible ups and down of building vs renting. I was mainly interested in what others are spending for ongoing enjoyment of their passion. Rosie's post was right on what I was looking for as well as the input from some others. I appreciate everyone sharing their personal experiences, opinions, and especially the data.

Regards,
Tom

I agree with you, Jon. I have my IFR ticket, but I have yet to file in my -6A; I'm still only comfortable VFR in it.

I would also like to know how all of these guys can fly so far, so regularly, VFR. Any time I go a long distance, weather is an issue.

Am I too conservative? Do others "fudge" through ceilings? I sure would like to know.

Ben Beaird
-6A

spreadsheet showing initial costs

Tom Maxwell said:

Ok Ok I got it, flying is great and we can't justify the cost just like other expensive hobbies. No argument from anyone. The enjoyment is great, the friends are great, the freedom is great, RVs are great, yes it is expensive. I think we all know this and agree with it. No arguments. We know about cutting out cigarettes, and cable TV, and driving the old clunker, and cutting out bee...cigarettes, and cutting out bee...cable TV, and living in a smaller house, etc. etc. But still after all of the cost cutting, there is still some amount of money needed to support the hobby. Not saying that there isn't money to free up, just curious about how much needs to be freed up.

So, the question is not, "Is it worth it if I can afford it," we all know it is. The question is "How much do I need to budget so I can reasonably enjoy the hobby." My intent was to get some real world numbers about how much people are spending and what that amount buys them. We can use retail rates of $100 per hour or whatever as a guideline, but I believe the general thinking is that one of the advantages of building is a cost savings afterwards. Perhaps, but perhaps not. But without real-world numbers, we can't make an informed decision and we can't determine if our budget will allow us to fly 50 hours a year, 100 hours a year, 500 hours a year, or 0 hours per year.

Anyway, thanks for all of the feedback, especially those who responded with real world numbers. Your input has been very helpful. It looks like after building I can look forward to a budget comparable to the payments on a 2005 Ford Excursion.

Click to expand...

Some hard numbers for the capital outlay for my 8A. Keep in mind that some costs have changed with time, and that I threw money at the project to get it done. It can be done much cheaper. Construction started in 2001.

RV-8A Project
Total est. cost = $58,873
**********************
Starter Kit:
empennage kit $1,370
crating chg. $18
tools (yeah, right) $2,000
total starter cost= $3,388
**********************
Airframe costs:
empennage kit $1,370
manual elevator trim $0
crating chg. $18
RV-8A quickbuild kit $17,425
crating $450
manual aileron trim $75
static air kit $19
ground adj. rudder pedals ($100)
wing tip landing lights
QB shipping cost $1,077
RV-8A finishing kit $5,030
crating chg. $65
prop spinner $10
plane superstructure cost= $25,439
****************************
Drive train:
firewall forward kit $2,815
Aerosport O-360 A2A $20,850
Catto 3-blade composite prop $1,670
drive train cost= $25,335
********************************
Basic Instrumentation:
ASI $140
altimeter $190
compass $63
Grand Rapids EIS-4000 $1,000
Hobbs meter w/oil switch $63
turn ball $40
ELT $189
thottle quadrant-2 lever $100
strobe light system 2 option A $758
magneto switch $82
carburetor heat muff $22
wiring kit $180
vent air system x2 60
seat belts x2 $150
total $3,037
********************************
Additional Instruments, etc:
Garmin GPS 196 $950
Infinity stick grip $150
altitude encoder $150
ICOM A200 com $900
intercom $200
Dynon D-10 EFIS $2,000
Garmin GTX320A $1,200
canopy cover, light wt. $150
DJ Lauritsen seats $750
total $6,450
***********************************

Operating costs:

Avg fuel burn/hr x $/gal = 9 gal/hr x $3.00/gal = $27/hr
(avg fuel burn includes XC trips and just farting around)

Oil change every 25 hrs, 6 qts @ $2/qt = $12/25hr = $0.50/hr

Hangar cost: $85/month divided by 155hrs/6months = $3.29/hr

So, about $30.79/hr to operate. Doesn't include insurance(which is quite variable), value loss of engine/hr, or opportunity-lost cost (I could have been working and making money... oh, now that is really sick).

In the end, once you are flying the money really becomes almost immaterial. Flying an RV is a way of life.
See you at a fly in!

Mark Andrews

Cost of Ownership

OK, here's my $.02 worth. I've been flying my RV-6 (O-360, constant speed prop, basic day/nite IFR)for about 2 years. My total costs average $510.00 per month. Here's the breakdown based on my average of 150 hours per year (and I fly a lot): Fuel @ 9 gal/hr, $2.96/gal=$333.00; Hangar=$47.00; Maintenance=$25.00; Insurance=$105.00. Some things to consider...I own my hangar and pay for land lease, insurance, and electricity, so you'll probably have to increase your portion for this. If you're paying $3.75 for 100LL, you need to move or find one of the many websites that show cheap fuel. Fuel at my expensive airport is $3.30 and I can get it for $2.40 - $2.80 at a couple airports closeby. My insurance is $1265.00/year...first year was about 150 more (VanGuard). I have full coverage, low deductible and $75,000.00 hull coverage. Maintenance is oil changes every 40-45 hours, brake pads, tires, tubes every 150 hours, and very little else because it's new. If you want to buy new stuff for your bird, cut some firewood, tutor, or do something else to make some extra money to pay for it, but don't figure it into the normal operation of your airplane, because you do'nt need it. If you did, you would have built it that way in the first place. Flying an RV is no more expensive than any other airplane and cheaper than most because you built it and you're the mechanic. You can take up another hobby that is less expensive, but if you're a pilot, flying an RV is the most fun you can have in the air. Don't give up your dream.

cost to fly

I just finished reading all the post on cost to fly. I'm glad to find out that I'm not the only one that lives to fly. The statement (dam the cost) trumps everything else so I really don't need to know my hourly cost as it doesn't matter. When I run out of mony or if i run out of mony I wont fly
Doyle Reed
RV7A 180 and C/S
P.S. I had to build two RVs to get what I wanted.

I want to comment on a line posted by the wise redbeardmark: "stop watching/paying for TV (a total waste of flying time/building time/money)"

It's more than that, it's a waste of your life. A black hole of life, if you will, where the hours go in but can never escape.
Better things to do with that time:
Get a part time job or put in overtime to pay for RV
Build RV
Make improvements to home/property to build equity (helps for loans to buy RV)
Invest in more school or self improvement to get a promotion or better job.

Just don't turn on that TV

Also on the subject of time, if there isn't enough money to get the quick build kit consider getting a part time job or putting in overtime to pay for it rather than spending the time building the slow build. Would probably come out about even.

I hate the fact that time and money seem to be the same thing for most of us, but it is even more so for RV'ers.
I have never paid for TV (cable or satellite), have always used antennae or rabbit ears. That eliminates the expense. Now to eliminate the wasted time (i.e. eliminate TV altogether):
We bought a horse farm out in the country 3 years ago and now I spend 3 hours a day in a car. Since then every minute of my spare time feels very valuable to me. I only watched TV at most a few hours a week. Last summer we had the old shingled roof redone in steel and I chose not to put the antennae back up on the new pristine steel roof. No TV since then and I haven't regretted it (especially during an election year). I now take every bit of overtime I can get. I have been working hard on the new shop (more equity) and should be ready to resume building the RV-6 this summer (it's currently up in the old horse barn rusting to pieces

I have been somewhat fiscally conservative my whole life but after 40 years I finally learned that is only half of it. Be very conservative with both money AND time and airplane expenses will be much less burdensome.

Roy V.
Work in MN, Live in WI
Precious little time for airplanes.

If you gonna play, you gotta PAY!

Boat, sports car, airplane. All come with some level of guilt. You take money away from the family, unless you are filthy rich, inherited a mint, hit a Vegas jackpot or win the lottery. You may build a barebones VFR plane or a glass panel whiz bang cloud cutter, but the bottom line remains the redirection of funds for our mutual love, Flying!

My family loves me enough to make room for my passion. While the monetary cost of building and maintaining a RV is measurable, the value of the time away from the family cannot be estimated.

I have two families, one at home and one called the RV community. My family at home understands that my love of flying and building comes from the awe of the aviators I had as a child. Some of my RV family consist of those aviators, while others are the children that shared the awe with me.

You CAN afford an RV. Some of my RV family members have built over a period of ten years to realize their dream. Some, like myself, are fortunate to be able to afford the quickbuild route, completing the kits in months, enjoying the journey, learning from the process, then selling the completed success to finance the next project.

In summation, I never tire of reading threads outlining support of our families or of reading threads thanking the RV family for answering the same questions over and over, but I would like to see posts that discuss the fact that the cost of an RV goes beyond money.

Thanks to all for allowing me to ramble.

Robby Knox
RV-8 called Xcess
N82XS reserved

Ongoing costs

I thought I would revive this older thread and give my $.02. Only cause I am just getting around to reading it. Here's my comments:

I used to duck hunt with my brother in law. We had lots of fun, shot some ducks, cooked them and lied about our hunting exploits. One year we decided to figure our costs per pound. Boat, motor, decoys, gas, guns, shells, hunting clothes, boots, waders, licenses, travel, etc. etc. We divided the cost at the end of the season by the number of ducks we harvested. We paid over $60 per pound for the ducks.

Here's my point.......flying for most of us is recreation. If we try to put a cost per pound (hour) we may be disappointed. If you need to figure it all out, that's certainly your choice, but for me it's hard to put a value on the joy and thrill of building and flying your own airplane. You are in a club that represents less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the US population. When we are 100 and telling our great great grandchildren what we wish we had done differently in life, one thing won't be, "I wish I hadn't built my own airplane and experienced the exhilaration of flight."

Well-stated, 9A, well-stated.

I also have the 'hunting & fishing addiction', in addition to flying, and I won't even begin to try and figure out all the costs in the long run. However, the bottom line is that we are pursuing our hobbies; things that make our lives happy.

As you basically stated, there are just some things we can't put a price on!

$85,000 / 1100 lbs. = $77.27 per pound for an RV.

If all you do is give up duck hunting, it works.

I bought an RV6a last fall flown about 50 hrs in the past 3 months and have only paid for an oil change. Will do the next one myself. Hanger side is 375/month but can easliy fit 2 RV's on my side. Burns about 8-10 gal per hr depending on power setting. Gets close to the gas milage of my car. Bought it with <2 hrs in an RV and insurance was about $1500/yr. Compared to the Twin Cessna 310 (24 gal/hr) it's a freaking bargin.

I let my wife fly and take her out to eat. I only tell my wife about the cost for the gas (just a little white lie). She loves flying! (and what she doesn't know - want hurt)

Progress or drop out?

This thread was started 1-24-2005. Plenty of time to finish 2 RVs since then, this being 1-22-2009. Wonder where some of you fence sitters are now? Finished and flying? Or did you talk your self out of flying all together?

Flying needs to be your passion to be done safely. Not a hobby that is done a couple of times a year. Nothing wrong with not flying. It's not for every one.

Cost ? Pooie. I say, if I go broke it will be in an airplane, any airplane is better than none. A hundred years ago almost no one got to fly. Take advantage of the times we are in. If you love it you will find a way.

Jaypratt said:

This thread was started 1-24-2005. Plenty of time to finish 2 RVs since then, this being 1-22-2009. Wonder where some of you fence sitters are now? Finished and flying? Or did you talk your self out of flying all together?

Flying needs to be your passion to be done safely. Not a hobby that is done a couple of times a year. Nothing wrong with not flying. It's not for every one.

Cost ? Pooie. I say, if I go broke it will be in an airplane, any airplane is better than none. A hundred years ago almost no one got to fly. Take advantage of the times we are in. If you love it, you will find a way.

Click to expand...

You summed it up very nicely Jay I have updated my operating cost post after receiving several off-line requests. BUILD (or buy), then Fly safe! Rosie

One more idea

Find a buddy and divide everything by 2! Friends are one of the best things about the process.

Cost to fly

I mostly think about the cost to not fly, it's too hard to live without. I pay the bills, take care of the wife and kids, somehow I find the money, yes my panel looks like something from the 1940's (except for the Avmap) but I'm flying. Keep looking up !
Peter
RV6, needs paint

Ongoing cost of ownership

Like you said in the excitement some people forget about the ongoing cost. I remember years ago hearing someone complain about the cost of plans for a sonex or something. I responed that the $400 or so would be like tossing a couple nickles down a sewer compared to what the total cost of building and ownership would be. Needless to say that's not what they wanted to hear.

Here's what I'm doing. Building a Mustang II from plans. Fabricating all parts myself except the ones I can't make which I'll have to buy. Will use a Chevy 4.3 V6 with a prop speed reduction unit from Belted Air. Will make my own cowl and engine mount (already have the mold and jig). Will not hanger, that cost too much and would never consider physical damage insurance coverage, hey I'm trying to save money here.

By building my own airframe I can stay down in the $6,000 area as oppposed to what an RV kit costs. I'll have about seven or eight K in firewall forward and you can guess the difference in maintaining the Chevy verses a Lycoming. If I had to use a Lycoming I never would have started.

While taking my morning walk, I started questioning what it really costs to fly an RV. There have probably been many posts about this subject, but I haven't read them, yet. I know there are many factors (private airpark, insurance, hangared or tie-down, regional fuel costs, etc.) that would produce varying totals from different builders, but I would like to see some of the long-time RV flyers post what they feel are realistic ownership costs for their specific aircraft. Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here, but it might be something that many RV builders, like myself, would like to know. Anyone care to share their information?
9Abuilder

You can start here Rosie

Thanks for updating your info sheet, Rosie. Whenever I feel tired of building I check out your website for inspiration!