My Broken RV-4: Advise?

As I posted on our local RV Yahoo! Group:

Hi gang:

First of all, I'd like to point out that if you don't have something
useful to say on this, please keep it to yourself. I am not in the
mood right now. Usually, yes...but not right now.

As you can see from the link below, the huge storm that came through
Lima, OH (and elsewhere) boogered up my newly aquired RV-4 that I
haven't even been in during flight. I am currently 1.3hrs into my TW
training and now have an unairworthy RV taildragger.

Now, my question... what are my options? The way I see it, I can
either [a] make a claim to my insurance, collect the insurance money
on repairs and then sell the broken airplane to someone else who is
able to fix it. Or I can do
the insurance deal and try to make the fixes with some help from
others (since I
have no idea how to do the building stuff).

Thoughts? I don't know much about airplane insurance and how I'm
going to go about doing this (Falcon Insurance), but this isn't really
something I know how or care to fix. It seems like quite a bit of
work for someone without the time or knowledge to do so.

So, if you have some real advise on this, I'd appreciate it anyway I
can get it. You can either post a reply to the whole group, email to
me personally or you can call me.

Thanks for your help, and I'm sorry I'm not in the mood for the "just
give it to me for $20 and we'll call it even" jokes...

Here are the photos:
http://www.wrenfamily.org/multimedia/flying/2006-06-22/

-Brandon in Lima with broken RV-4 that I've never flown...

Click to expand...

Any help is greatly appreciated.

First of all Brandon, sorry to see you got some damage.

From the pictures you posted, it looks like you came out of this a whole lot better than others did.

As to your damage.....From your pictures, it looks like the most serious and potentially time consuming damage is your broken canopy. All the other affected areas look to be easily fixed...at least from what I can see in the photos.

Can I assume that all the damage was done by flying debris? Your airplane never got tossed around, or stood up on a wing or something? If that is the case, then there shouldn't be any damage that has wrinkled a wing or twisted the fuse. Very good news indeed.

My first suggestion is to get in touch with your local EAA chapter. Are you a member? I would think that there is a chance that there may be an RV'er in there somewhere who would jump at the chance to help you out. I know that I would if I were in your area.

Second, this is something that a A&P would be able to handle. Collect any insurance $ and pay the man to do it. Like I said, the most expensive, involved project here is to get that canopy fixed. Next comes buying a new prop. Everything else is very easily fixed.

Don't give up on this bird Brandon. It looks like a great airplane.



Regards,

The hangar basically blew right off the area and the airplane just weathervaned into the wind. I don't suspect any internal damage since all control inputs work just fine (no binding). Also, I pulled it around and it tracks straight. And when pushing up and down on the wing, it's still very solid.

This is my second broken airplane in less than a month. I think the Big Man upstairs is trying to tell me something...

:|

Here's a list of things I saw broken:

• broken canopy
• broken prop
• right wing tip and lights scratched/broken
• COMM antenna broke off
• pitot tube bent/broke (still attached)
• hole in left aileron
• hole in vertical stabilzer
• scratches on left main gear fairing

Brandon:

I think this time he might be trying to tell you to move!

Come on RVers. Anyone near Lima OH that can lend a hand here? As my building mentor has always said when I lamented how long a tast was going to take....."Looks like a 20 minute job to me!"

Again Brandon, from your list, the two biggies are the broken canopy and the need for a new prop. Everything else is a "20 minute job", give or take a week or two..........

I agree with Jeff! Looks mostly like superficial damage, but hard to tell from the pictures. Right now, I would say you are still in the shock phase. Search this site and Vans for builders in your area who could help and have an A&P look it over. Hopefully there was no water damage on the inside from the canopy collasping. I don't think its as bad as you may fear. Hopefully someone like Jay or Mel will see your pictures and give you bigger boost of confidence.

Take Heart!

Seriously Brandon, Painless is right - the damage you show in the pictures doesn't look very hard to fix. The fiberglass work on the tips is really only a few hours work! The canopy will take a little longer, but this bird is far, far from somehtign to dispose of. I'd call your insurance adjuster, get a check, and if you don't want (or don't have time) to do it yourslef, hire a mechanic or local builder to fit a new canopy.

Gotta be frustrating, I know but you have a 95% sound airplane right now if the pictures are accurate.

Paul

I must say it looks pretty clean, based on the other photos, I think it is safe to say that the big guy has a warms spot for RV's.

I just thought I would add that Steinair has just finished repairing an insurance funded RV-4. That airplane was put down in a ditch, and they really did wonderful work.

You may want to talk to Stein about it, or a shop in your area, but if you want to tackle it yourself, building an aileron, and fixing the tips and canopy shouldn't be that tough, might be fun to get to know your new plane a little better.

Brandon: I don't know what you will decide to do, but i know where there is a perfect canopy for you. Roger Spain totaled his 4 but the canopy does not have a scratch on it. I'm sure you could buy it. If you decide to fix your plane, post your intentions and I will send you Rogers Phone #.

Before you buy a used canopy you should be aware that the canopies are fitted and trimmed to the frame. A canopy from another plane might not fit yours very well. Also, it will have a bunch of little holes in it that won't match the mounting holes in your side skirts.

The canopy is definitely one of the tougher parts of the build, but mostly due to the side skirts. You should be able to reuse yours, so actually the job won't be too bad. Others have said that any A/P could do the work, but in my opinion that would be a bad idea. Find an experienced RV4 or RV8 builder if you want the best work.

I wanted to add my encouragement to to the other posts.
This doesn't look bad at all but it would be good to have someone familiar with RV's (preferably RV-4s) look at it to help with the evaluation. A lot of stuff is hard to see in photos.

I have done lots of repairs on RV's and I am rebuilding a damaged RV-6A right now. I have had to replace the firewall and every skin on the fuselage except for the two top turtledeck skins. Your required repairs look much less serious. As already posted, the canopy is the only major issue that I see and it looks like it is installed with screws which will make it easier.
As already mentioned, use your local EAA chapter to make contact with some experienced RV people in your area. Most are very willing to help so if you don't do well with the first one or two that you make contact with, don't give up. Keep trying.
I would be more happy to help out if you were close by... I'm sure someone local to you can give you some technical help and guidance for making the repairs.

Thanks, guys. It sounds like it isn't too bad.

I guess another reason selling came in as option "a" is because I have nowhere to put the airplane now. Also, after loosing 1/2 the hangars at the airport (and never wanting to make an RV sleep outside), there isn't much chance of getting one.

Not sure if there would be much interest if I were to put it up for sale. It would be a steal! Thoughts? Are there people who want a -4 and could put some fix-er-up time into it?

*sigh*

I hope the shock wears off soon...

Listen to me!!

Hi Brandon,
Listen and listen carefully. You just don't realize how little it will take to get your -4 in the air quickly. To make it ferriable, the prop can be taken off and a loaner replaced, or buy one...you'll have Ins. cash. The fin can be duct taped with a piece of bent aluminum under it. The pitot tube is a five minute job.( besides, I can fly it without airspeed indications). The hole in the aileron or flap won't affect anything and you can patch it later. Correct me if I'm wrong but the biggest problem I see is the canopy. Any A&P or EAAer with RV experience can fix that in a matter of hours, not days. By your own admission, the controls all move freely with no binding. The landing gear is still aligned and the brakes work. The major structure, wings, spars and fuselage have only cosmetic damage. Hey...The glass is half FULL!

If you really still want to get rid of it fast, call me...478 625 3586. I can borrow a canopy and fly that lil' sucker home to Georgia in a few days!!!
Just how much is a steal anyway??

Well, Pretty much everything has been said, and I agree with all. Your damage is VERY minimal. I've rebuilt several RVs and your's wouldn't even qualify as a rebuild, just minor repair. The canopy is the only major item, and even that isn't that major. Find an experienced RV builder to help. Don't know how Falcon Insurance is, but I just finished repairing a -6 that had a runaway alternator and let the "magic smoke" out of the instrument panel. The only call I got from AIG Insurance was, Why was my estimate so low. Good luck.

Typo in the price

Mel said:

... I just finished repairing a -6 that had a runaway alternator and let the "magic smoke" out of the instrument panel. The only call I got from AIG Insurance was, Why was my estimate so low. Good luck.

Click to expand...

And your response "Gee, thanks for catching that. I left off a zero."

Hi guys...thanks for the advise. I totally agree with you all.

However, my main issue is having nowhere to hangar it. I just can't get myself to tie it down outside in Ohio. If I lived in CA or somewhere else with decent wx all year, I may consider it.

Either way, I think I'll have to go the route of selling it after the insurance thing is done. I'll post it on the VAF classified when the time comes.

*sigh*

One day I'll fly in a -4...

I realize a hanger is very VERY nice to have, but there are all sorts of airplanes that are 40+ years old that have never seen one. A -4 is a small ship, look around for someone that might let you squeeze in with them.

Scott - #90598 - N598SD Flying - 53 hours

I too understand that you're very upset right now, but the last thing you want to do is just go and sell your brand-new airplane, when you ultimately want to keep it. As of right now, get some duct tape over the holes in the aileron and rudder, get a plastic cover for the canopy, and start looking into getting the canopy fixed. I certainly agree with Mel that the damage to your plane is minimal, and could be fixed easily enough with just a little work, so please don't give up your dream from this setback. Believe me, you'll regret it later.

If your airplane must be in a hangar, perhaps you could look into some other airports (for the time being) as a temporary home. Findly, Bluffton, Kenton, Fostoria, etc. are all pretty close by...start checking into some of those for temporary hangar space. I'm sure they'll be understanding of your situation.

Hang in there, and please remember, no rash decisions! (Other than getting the canopy fixed )

Best of luck to you

Brandon,

Everyone has already stated the obvious but what isn't so obvious is that it sounds like you did not build this or any other airplane.

Had this happened to my plane in the days before I started my -9, I would be at a total loss as to what I should do next. Because of that I can empathize with you.

Your local EAA chapter might be looking for a project to help teach other want-a-be builders learn the ins and outs of aircraft fabrication. This might be a good project for them. They will get some experience and you will get your plane back.

Heck, you might even find a builder looking for another project.

Best of luck!

I think everyone is pretty much right on track here....but I've got to play "devils advocate" just a little bit. We just finished repairing a broken RV4 in our shop here that at first glance also appeared to have fairly easy repairs. Well, 6 month later and lots of $$'s later the owner has a plane with a LOT of new metal in it.

Here's what I'd do before I considered any of the options you mentioned.

1) have a competent "RV" guy look it over closely. That means removing all the panels and basically doing a 'once over' airframe annual type inspection. For all intensive purposes the damage only looks superficial, but these RV's often suffer damange that can be unseen, especially older RV4's. Places to pay particular attention to are the horizontal stab rear spar attach bolts (which frequently suffer from small cracks at the bolts where builders didn't quite get things right and later get cracked from some sort of injury). Also look closely at the front lower longeron attach points both at the firewall weldments and spar attach points (both outer/lower longerons and the center tunnel attachments). Check the main front side skins for any sort of wrinkles at all. Also look closely at the vertical stab attach points, because the top of your stab took a pretty good hit.

Anyway, the goal here is to find out exactly what the deal is before you decide on an option either fix, sell, etc... It doesn't take much for the insurance companies to total these things (believe me I know, I've dealt with them a number of times now being the "fixer" and estimater for the fixes on bent RV's).

Like others have said, you most likely will get by with relatively minor repair, but I'd really do a good close inspection before I decided. Most likely with a wood prop that is still intact the engine is fine, so probably no issues there.

If you'd like to chat more in depth about this feel free to contact me off list. We've done quite a bit of RV repair work (along with building our own RV's) and even though we're not in your state, I can give you some helpful advice over the phone.

Don't worry...I think it'll all work out for you fine!

Cheers,
Stein.

Oh...and for goodness sakes, when you're replacing that canopy....throw away that 2lb monster bar for holding open the canopy and install a cable!!!!!

Thanks again, guys.