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First Time to Oshkosh

rolivi

Well Known Member
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Need some advice....

I'm a 350hr VFR pilot in Texas with about 10 hours in my RV.

Currently I'm on the fence of whether to go to OSH commercial or fly myself. My non-pilot friend will want to go with me (and I'd like her to go with me) but I'm reading through the very long NOTAM book and wondering how wise it is for me to get into all that congestion for the first time with a non-pilot.

I'm also a member of a flying club and I think both club planes will be going so in theory I could have her swap seats with a pilot whose done it before for the last leg.

So the question's are: Am I being a nervous Nelly?
What was your first time flying into Oshkosh like?


Thanks!
 
So the question's are: Am I being a nervous Nelly?

Dear Nelly, :)

I flew in with a brand new RV8 with far less hours than you have. Look over the notam and program all points into your ipad...and go. Landing a plane is landing a plane and the congestion is no worse than your typical towered airport on a beautiful spring weekend morning....the line is just longer.

Dont look at the crowd on final...or you'll notice that all of them are looking in anticipation at you.

It's really a lot of fun....you have to fly in. You can handle this. If you're nervous (as I was)...go early on a day with less traffic. After doing it though, I realized I was nervous about nothing. The controllers are great...they will hand hold you in. Just be where you need to be and know where you're going.
 
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I've never flown into Oshkosh & this will be my first year.
Having flown into sun-n-fun about 30 times I'm not worried.
You've got a good start by actually reading the notam. Some don't.

I believe you have plenty of time between now & then to get your skills up to par.
I'd start by polishing up on your your slow flight & maybe fly a gaggle with others to get you comfortable being close to other aircraft. I would also recommend you polish up on spot landings.

You will know if you are ready.
 
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What day are you flying in? I only had about 125 hours when I flew in last year. I read everything, watched youtube videos, and planned on getting there Saturday before the rush. It was a great time and no stress! Once you are on the ground the workers pretty much hold your hand to parking. Other then chasing a fuel truck around for a few hours trying to leave before the airshow it was a great time and I'm going again this year!
 
Oshkosh

I take the easy road. Fly somewhere close, like Portage, Wi. stay overnight and leave to be at Ripon at 0800 before the crowds get there later. It's not that hard and your passenger can look for traffic. Don't push the weather and have the notam down cold and all the waypoints in a GPS or on the sectional. Follow the airplane in front of you, have your speed and altitude where they belong and stay there.
 
We have found that Sunday morning the day before the airshow starts around 8am is a good time to arrive.
 
No Problem....

If you study the NOTAM and are prepared you are ahead of the game. If you are concerned about the traffic the best thing to do is plan your arrival when it is normally not as busy. Early morning (7 to 10) on any day is good. Saturday is also a good time. Stay away from Sunday & Monday afternoon at the start of the show. And try a Spotted Cow at the SOS Bros. Bar down by the museum.
 
I agree with others that you can do it - especially since you have several months to practice slow flight, and keeping a set distance to an airplane in front of you (1/2 mile). Find a partner and go do it. Do flights a the required 90 knots, and then take the speed down and make sure you are comfortable in TRUE slow flight, just above the stall. And do some stall recoveries whilr you're at it. If any of those aren't comfortable - then you're not ready.

Oh - and do this practice with the airplane loaded the way it will be for the arrival! Not necesarrily with your planned passenger, but with someone who'll be comfortable and maybe who has been there before. People practice at light weights and then take their overloaded airplane on the approach and get slow....
 
There is usually at least a couple of us that depart for osh on Sun morning from 52F, feel free to contact me if you feel like tagging along.
 
Get fuel early

Flying to Oshkosh the first time is near the top of the list of places I've flown in the RV. Camping in Homebuilt Camping is also a great time.

Andy mentioned chasing the fuel truck. Get fuel the first time they come by and pay for it soon after. The first time I flew in I waited until departure day to get fuel. Then the FBO that filled me up would only take payment at a booth at the opposite end of the field (long walk/run with friends waiting to depart). Don't need that stress when you are trying to leave.

Be ready for any changes called out during approach/landing. I was making a great approach for the first dot on the runway as instructed. On short, short final they changed me to another dot midway down the field. Just be ready. The controllers have been great to work with every time I've been.

Your non-pilot passenger can still be a great help watching traffic and finding Ripon, railroad tracks, etc.
 
thanks!

All encouraging...

And Walt, I'll probably be checking in with you soon about tagging along with your group. As you may know, I'm off of Hicks.
 
You can do it. But practice and build a few more hours in some of the corners of the envelope as Paul suggested. We'll be headed up for a Sat. afternoon arrival. 8am Sun. over Ripon is often nearly deserted.
 
Slow flight practice

When you are on the Ripon arrival you are required not to exceed 90kts but please realize that you may have to go slower if the traffic ahead is slower. Before the first time I flew into OSH I practiced with a second person in the plane (for weight) at 90, 80 & 70 kts. RV's can easily handle this but you will find that without flaps the nose is way up in the air. It is best to have 15 to 20 degrees of flaps to get the nose down. Watch your weight and balance, if you arrive with low fuel and heavy baggage you could be near your aft CG, not good at low speeds while being distracted. It would be better to fuel up just prior to arrival so you don't have to worry about fuel or CG.

My plane gets such good fuel milage that last year I was able to fly to OSH and back home twice without fueling (OK I'm only 80+ miles away):)
 
Know your options

When you are on the Ripon arrival you are required not to exceed 90kts but please realize that you may have to go slower if the traffic ahead is slower...

Frank and others provide good advice:
Fly yourself!
- thinking it through in advance is one mark of a responsible pilot.
- If I could do it, safely... you can too.

know the NOTAM
- I'm a low time pilot, so I read up weeks before departure, and every night enroute. While waiting for WX to clear in KS, we drilled each other on NOTAM options and details.

practice and be comfortable with sloooow flight.
- The Cub in front of me was at 75 MPH. I followed for a bit, then decided I did not want to fly slower still on approach, so I pitched out per the NOTAM, to fall back into line again.

Fly eyes out
-GPS/other waypoints are a great help for navigation, but as you approach Ripon, there may be lots of other a/c joining the conga line; both you and your passenger should be looking outside the cockpit.

Have Fun!
 
Do most RVs fly the Fisk Arrival at the 90kts?
I know the NOTAM states, if unable, fly the 135kts.
Seems to me there would be less congestion.
As stated earlier, I've never flown into Oshkosh, so was wondering what others have elected to do.
 
I flew into Oshkosh in a 172 with only about 100 hours total time. With planning the arrival is a non-event. We stayed about 150 miles away and had an early start on the Saturday to arrive before it got too busy. I had read the notam many times and watched the videos of the arrivals made by the EAA. My landing was a bit firm but otherwise no dramas. As others have said practice flying slowly and plan well.

On leaving we packed up early and were one of the first to leave in the morning, again no long wait or any real drama. Awesome flight down the east side of Chicago to breakfast in Indiana.

It was awesome and I am very glad that I flew in. It was a lot of fun. (...and I went for a demo flight and am now building an RV)
 
Do most RVs fly the Fisk Arrival at the 90kts?
I know the NOTAM states, if unable, fly the 135kts.
Seems to me there would be less congestion.
As stated earlier, I've never flown into Oshkosh, so was wondering what others have elected to do.

Yes. Most fly the 90 knot approach.
 
Do most RVs fly the Fisk Arrival at the 90kts?
I know the NOTAM states, if unable, fly the 135kts.
Seems to me there would be less congestion.
As stated earlier, I've never flown into Oshkosh, so was wondering what others have elected to do.

Most RV's do fly the 90kt arrival. Yes it's much less congested in the higher, faster arrival. Problem is, both the low and high are headed to the same runway! So both flows will have to mix at some point. The less planes up high makes it easier for everyone in my opinion. Pilots and controllers.

Key words are "if unable".

Mark
 
For practice

There's a scavenger hunt nearby that I was going to do at the higher speed but I'm switching to the 90KIAS course for more practice.

Gonna be fun!

And please keep giving any tips you haven't seen for the first OSH.
 
Most RV's do fly the 90kt arrival. Yes it's much less congested in the higher, faster arrival. Problem is, both the low and high are headed to the same runway! So both flows will have to mix at some point. The less planes up high makes it easier for everyone in my opinion. Pilots and controllers.

Key words are "if unable".

Mark

Hey Mark, are you going to be there this year?

Of course we'll be there. Arriving Sat. (I think), leaving Wed. or Thurs. depending on Tanya's employment status. We'll be eating lunch at the airplane for many hours during each afternoon. Stop by and tell stories under the wing.
 
Most RV's do fly the 90kt arrival. Yes it's much less congested in the higher, faster arrival. Problem is, both the low and high are headed to the same runway! So both flows will have to mix at some point. The less planes up high makes it easier for everyone in my opinion. Pilots and controllers.

Key words are "if unable".

Mark

Ok. 90kts it is.
It's going to be fun. I'm really looking forward to meeting everyone at HBC.
 
Hey Mark, are you going to be there this year?

Of course we'll be there. Arriving Sat. (I think), leaving Wed. or Thurs. depending on Tanya's employment status. We'll be eating lunch at the airplane for many hours during each afternoon. Stop by and tell stories under the wing.

Scott,
Yes, I'll be at Oshkosh this year! Can't wait.
I usually arrive the Saturday before also.

I'm looking forward to seeing you and Tanya again and hearing more about your recent trip.

Since this thread is "First time to Oshkosh" I want to mention something I ran across last year. Bratwurst and sauerkraut pizza. I know it may not sound very good but it was unbelievably delicious. And some Spotted Cow beer to wash it down!!
This was at "West End Pizza" just across the street from the Hilton, north side of the airport. I'll be there one evening:)

Mark
 
Wow a post on the forum where every one agrees and everyone is right!!!
Don't see that too often. My only addition is to make sure your companion does go with you because the extra set of eyes outside is a big plus. No need for those eyes to belong to a pilot!

I have done the arrival both ways but prefer an extra set of eyes.

John Morgan

PS come and see us in Homebuilt camping and don't miss the Mon night beer blast.
 
Since 1978 I have arrived under both extremes of conditions. Once with both holding patterns full after an accident on the airport. Just fly away and sit for a while was my solution to that mess. And once I was cleared to land 20 miles south but that was one day before the NOTAM took effect. Keep your eyes open and fly the airplane, it's not that bad if you shoot for early arrival times.
 
It is nice to have another pilot type with you to help with the workload and scanning. It is easy to get task saturated your first time in. Especially when you look right and see a Cessna cutting in front of you just after Fisk, or below you, or.... and don't relax on departure either. The idiots are still out there. (I'm talking to you Mr. Baby Ace who taxied across the active departure runway during my takeoff roll)

Use Google Earth to familiarize yourself with the arrival checkpoints, etc.
Have some alternates plugged in. My first year was sloshkosh and OSH and Fond du lac were both closed....oops!

As others have said, practice slow flight at max weight, and aft CG. Things get much more loosie-goosie in that condition! Feels really weird if you are used to rocketing around light. Not a good time to have the bottom fall out... and you will have an audience! Oh, and practice tight patterns, and tight right hand patterns.

You'll probably do better than most because you will practice and study. Go for it! It's a blast and maybe you'll get to taxi in behind a P-51 too.
 
In addition to the good advice above, practice aborted landings from short final. And be prepared to abort if things don't feel right. I've watched a few interesting landings by pilots who were fixated on putting it on the ground in spite of excess speed or squirrelly wind gusts. Sometimes ATC will wave you off if spacing is too tight or there is a problem on the runway. You need to know how your plane flies with full flaps and full power at the weight and CG you expect at arrival.
 
Everyone who responded made a "first flight" to Oshkosh. I did that. The last three years we have had student/builders fly in in the planes they built. One was making his first XC after getting his license. No problems any time. Your best bet is to arrive EARLY! If you can figure a way to get there at 9AM Saturday, you might be the only plane in sight. Go for it!

Bob
 
Talk to others about their arrival experiences.
Practice spot landings.
Practice unusual Base turns to Final (eg: close in Base, Base at end of runway, Base to short Final turns) using an 800ft pattern.
Have friend practice spotting other traffic.
Put Rippon & Fisk in GPS as waypoints.
Enjoy the experience!!!
 
I know Oshkosh is a few months away. Just thought I would add my 2 cents worth on this thread.
I have flown in ten + times. One thing I would add to what has been said already, is to practice and become comfortable with maneuvering flight. What I mean by that is transitioning from slow to fast, go arounds, steep descents, extended landings (landing long), etc..
For example, when I do pattern work, I make each circuit different. Flaps, no flaps, no power finial, half power finial, full power finial, turning final, extended finial, leave the gear down, pull the gear up then down. Essentially everything I can think up to gain experience in how the plane responds.

Over the years I have had to slow down, speed up, do a 360 on short final, fly the runway length at 10 feet prior to touching down in the last 6-700 feet, maximum performance decent, turning final, extended downwind.
With the 182RG I typically fly the HP and have found that to generally be less congested. The controllers have always turned me in for 36 R (normally a taxi way) rather than try to blend me in with the standard traffic typically routed to runway 27. One thing on the HP arrival, the controllers expect you to keep your speed up until on very short final. So you need to know what it takes to slow down to proper landing speed.

It is a wonderful, fantastic, incredible experience to fly into Oshkosh. I recommend you do it as soon as you feel comfortable with your aircraft.
 
Show up with plenty of gas and don't be afraid of the holding pattern

My first trip in was last year too.

I had dropped my son off in Madison, so I took the opportunity to fill up there "just in case". Took fuel worries off the table, which was nice.

Good thing too, 'cause weather in the area earlier that day had caused a mass gaggle arrival to show up late and so approach and tower shut off all the other arrivals just as I showed up while handling those folks....so into the hold over Green Lake we all went.

As we tooled around the lake, finally they start taking folks again...and with plenty of gas, I just sat there and listened. Wasn't in a hurry to head in, and wanted to get a feel for how the controllers worked traffic.

Of course, as soon as they started handling folks again, it was a "cluster" as some guys "expeditiously" headed for the arrival gate. I just sat out there tooling around the lake, looking for traffic, listening to the radio and feeling my IQ go up 20 points for each circuit I made.

After a couple of extra turns, the traffic had cleared out (a lot), I knew the lingo better, and I knew what to expect from ATC and when.

Yes, I had read the NOTAM....but hearing it all as it was happening really brought it into focus.

So...it ain't mandatory to show up and blindly grab the tail of the guy in front of you. Head to the airport when you're good and ready and be ready for that big grin to hit your face when you hear that "Welcome to Oshkosh" directed at you!

Signed,

Not Steve Canyon
 
It was also my first trip to Oshkosh last year.

I arrived about noon at Ripon. Once directed to setup for inbound 18, I was instructed to follow a flight of 8 Piper Cubs. Yep, gotta practice your slow flight.
On mid field downwind, I was instructed to turn base, then missed & go around to yield to B17 or B25 inbound over the lake on base leg.

Yep, practice slow flight, maneuverability & prepare to change it up.

Going back again this year for the RV show. See you all at HBC.
 
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When you're flying right downwind for 27, when do you turn base? It sounds on the radio like the controllers call base. But when I went that way and waited for the call, I got nothing, followed by an urgent "turn base NOW!"
 
For my first arrival, I arrived at 9:00 Saturday morning, before the show. NO other planes in sight. A couple years ago, we had a kid with a week-old license fly our first kid-built RV-12 there. He did fantastic, but also arrived at a slow time. Like others have said, early on those days and you are home free!

Bob
 
I'm STOKED!

I'm flying first time to Kosh this year! Leaving early Sat morning, weather permitting, with a probable tailwind should put me there Sat Afternoon taking a couple fuel stops. I have already flown it several times on Google Earth and sat at home the last two years and listened on liveatc.net to the arrivals and have a good idea what to expect. Shouldn't be bad at all on Sat afternoon.....I'm STOKED! :p
 
When you're flying right downwind for 27, when do you turn base? It sounds on the radio like the controllers call base. But when I went that way and waited for the call, I got nothing, followed by an urgent "turn base NOW!"

Most times they want you turning base abeam the threshold of 27. This turn to final as well as that for 18 illustrate the need for practicing tight patterns.
 
A number of us will be departing early am on Sunday from Pecan Plantation and it will be my first trip to Oshkosh. I am taking the 12 so I will probably see my group the last time on the initial climb out and not again until we arrive. I am planning on approx 2 1/2 hour legs so there will be 2 Stops. Still in the planning stage but currently have the fist leg at 351nm stopping at LLU (Lamar). The second leg is 335nm stopping at KSFY (Tri Township). That leaves a short leg of 131nm in to Oshkosh. Any comments are welcome as this is our first trip to Oshkosh.


Pat
 
Oskosh

May I suggest if you have another pilot with you, on the turn to base and final have them tell you if your airspeed gets below your safe speed. You need to be looking outside all the time, low altitude turns can and have been fatal. I ask Judie to watch for any airspeed below 75 kts. in our RV6. I'm focused on traffic and that spot.
 
But do you wait to be told?

That depends

Listen up to what they tell the other airplanes in front of you - there should be quite a few if it is busy (If it isn't busy, well, they probably don't care). I always listen well ahead of my turn to figure out what the controller at the time is doing. Since they slot in IFR and warbird arrivals on 27 a lot, it is good to keep your ears and eyes open and have good situational awareness to do the right thing.
 
Seems that procedure could be cleaned up a bit. Especially since that guy in the Malibu crashed there last year.
 
Seems that procedure could be cleaned up a bit. Especially since that guy in the Malibu crashed there last year.

The NOTAM clearly states to turn base for 27 prior to reaching the shoreline and not to proceed past it unless advised by ATC. I flew this exact approach last year as outlined in the NOTAM and the only direction I received was to land on the orange dot. Seemed pretty cut and dried to me.

IMO the procedures work just fine and wasn't why that guy crashed. YMMV...
 
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