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  #11  
Old 10-10-2018, 07:31 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Location: Calgary, Canada
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For the parts minus the intake manifold, single pump, around $2740US for EFI only- no spark control. The intakes vary in price from $750-$1100, depending on the style. There's a lot of fab and TIG time there.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 426.1 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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  #12  
Old 10-10-2018, 08:47 PM
RFSchaller RFSchaller is offline
 
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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Looks like a lot of effort to upgrade an in service engine. Whatís the justification!
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  #13  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:04 PM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFSchaller View Post
Looks like a lot of effort to upgrade an in service engine. What’s the justification!
The people who've made the switch usually mention that they are tired of synching 2 carbs, linkage issues, carb drip trays etc. and wanting something that avoids all this along with the other usual advantages of fuel injection- smoother running due to more equal mixture distribution, economy and power gains.

Rotax themselves finally saw the light and came out with the EFI iS version.

For sure the carbs make the engine run, but not as well as EFI.

Our high time Rotax customer does flight instruction and has over 2200 hours on the EFI over about 10 years. He's sold on it after running carbs for an equal amount of time before that and bought 3 more EFI systems for other aircraft including a twin engined one.

As usual, these choices come down to personal experience and wants. If you are happy with your carbs, you continue to use them usually. EFI probably won't interest you just as EI won't interest many people who are happy with mags on a Lycoming.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 426.1 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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  #14  
Old 10-10-2018, 10:05 PM
rcarsey rcarsey is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North Brunswick, NJ
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reliability, fuel efficiency, range/endurance.

From Van's published numbers... 433 miles per tank (21.64mpg) vs 630 (31.5 mpg)... 45% more efficient is serious! Someone else can do the math.. but at some point, you make your money back...
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2018, 01:23 AM
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Piper J3 Piper J3 is online now
 
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Location: Hinckley, Ohio
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In aviation... I don't think you ever "get your money back"
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Jim Stricker
Hinckley, Ohio
EAA #499867
PPL/ASEL 1970 - Sport Pilot since 2007
80 hrs Flying Aeronca Chief 11AC
1130 hrs Flying 46 Piper J-3 Cub
RV-12 E-LSA #120058 AWC Jul 2012 - Bought Flying Oct 2015 with 48TT - Hobbs now 406

LSRM-A Certificate 2016
Special Thanks to EJ Trucks
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2018, 08:19 AM
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DaleB DaleB is offline
 
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As much as I would prefer FI over carbs... you'd have to reall, REALLY want it bad to sink that much into a conversion. I could see it if (for example) you had a damaged or run-out engine you were rebuilding.
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[i][size="1"]Omaha, NE
RV-12 # 222 N980KM "Screamin' Canary" (bought flying)
Fisher Celebrity (under construction)
Previous RV-7 project (sold)
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:11 AM
AJSWA AJSWA is offline
 
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Location: Paraburdoo Western Australia
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Default RV12 upgrade to EFI

A good start would be to do an electrical system analysis. Work out what excess charge system capacity is available should be the first thing to check. I suspect with the std 912 Charge system it would be very border line, handling the additional load from the different fuel pump, ECU and injectors. (depending on what electrical accessories are already fitted to the aircraft.)

I have also briefly looked into EFI to help overcome fuel quality and vapour issues in a very hot environment and decided the heart ache and further reduction of payload capacity due to the extra weight of the additional charging system to increase the available capacity wasn't worth the cost and weight penalty.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not against the idea, just trying to operate within the operating and legal parameters with 2 people on board.

Out of interest what are the estimates for an EFI system electrical current requirements?
Would it be around 10 amps?
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RV 120573
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:56 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJSWA View Post
A good start would be to do an electrical system analysis. Work out what excess charge system capacity is available should be the first thing to check. I suspect with the std 912 Charge system it would be very border line, handling the additional load from the different fuel pump, ECU and injectors. (depending on what electrical accessories are already fitted to the aircraft.)

I have also briefly looked into EFI to help overcome fuel quality and vapour issues in a very hot environment and decided the heart ache and further reduction of payload capacity due to the extra weight of the additional charging system to increase the available capacity wasn't worth the cost and weight penalty.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not against the idea, just trying to operate within the operating and legal parameters with 2 people on board.

Out of interest what are the estimates for an EFI system electrical current requirements?
Would it be around 10 amps?
The stock 912 charging system outputs around 18 amps max. The EFI draws around 7.6 amps leaving about 8-10 amps for the rest of the plane. If we do fuel AND ignition, the current draw increases to the point where a higher capacity charging system is recommended for most aircraft.

I haven't done a weight analysis between carbs and EFI on the Rotax as there are many factors with fuel pump and intake manifold options but my rough estimate is about 12-13 pounds with a single pump and the lightweight manifold. You could remove the two carbs, perhaps the two cast intake manifolds and fuel pump.

It does look like the RV-12 is more cramped aft of the carbs than many other aircraft and the stock cooling ducts for the cylinders would preclude using our existing 4 into 1 intake manifold so a crossover type transverse plenum style or twin TBs would be required. Certainly some custom parts required.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 426.1 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 10-11-2018 at 10:08 AM.
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  #19  
Old 10-11-2018, 09:59 AM
Mark33 Mark33 is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, La.
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Default 912 charging system VS. standard externally alternator

Couldn't that anemic 912 charging system be ditched and replaced with a standard external alternator? I wouldn't think that would be very difficult to do and would really bring the charging system up to speed which could then handle any device loads that you'd ever ask of it....including a full EFI/EFII setup. Modern external alternators are pretty compact and lightweight so I guess Iíve never really understood the purpose of that internal alternator on the 912ís.

Mark
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  #20  
Old 10-11-2018, 10:10 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark33 View Post
Couldn't that anemic 912 charging system be ditched and replaced with a standard external alternator? I wouldn't think that would be very difficult to do and would really bring the charging system up to speed which could then handle any device loads that you'd ever ask of it....including a full EFI/EFII setup. Modern external alternators are pretty compact and lightweight so I guess Iíve never really understood the purpose of that internal alternator on the 912ís.

Mark
There are a few options for adding more amps to the 912 charging system already.
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Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 426.1 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi.htm


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