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  #11  
Old 09-30-2018, 11:02 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpowell13 View Post
Carl N, in which issue of RVator is Aerobatic Epistle found? John
Van's article, "An Aerobatic Epistle", was originally published in the 6th Issue, 1998 of the RVator. It's also included in "27 Years of the RVator", beginning on page 472.
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Last edited by RV8JD : 10-01-2018 at 05:46 PM. Reason: Added an additional reference.
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  #12  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:48 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by penguin View Post
From cruise speed, pull the stick back until only blue is visible outside.
Continue to pull until only brown visible, pull some more until the normal attitude is back. Stop pulling. Keeps the wings level.
If more detailed instructions are required take some training.
Please do not follow this advice. Constantly increasing the pull all the way around with no reference to G is a good way to stall or snap roll off the top unexpectedly.
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  #13  
Old 10-01-2018, 03:24 PM
jpowell13 jpowell13 is offline
 
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Location: Baton Rouge, LA
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Default Thanks Carl

Thanks Carl. I found that issue among my old RVators.

Ron, I was lucky enough to find Greg Koontz for some aerobatic instruction last year. He asked me what my goals were to which I responded, "To be able to roll and loop my plane without killing myself". To that end we did 4 hours of flying and lots of ground instruction. The first three hours of air work were in his beautiful Decathlon and the last hour was in my 6A. We did a lot of spin recovery training in the Decathlon.

The toughest thing for me was to make myself pull enough G's in the loops. He likes about 3.2, and I would usually max out at about 2.8 G's. Neither plane had trouble completing the loop at 2.8 G's, but I'm working to get the feel of 3+ G's and over-coming my over-cautious tendency with respect to pulling G's to make better loops. I should say, that it took a couple of lessons to start getting over feeling yucky. But, it gets better if you persist.

After doing a few loops in my plane, he thought that my best loops happened when I pulled 3.2 G's and held the stick in the same position until I got over the top. He emphasized that when you're inverted at the top and if you get close to a stall that you need to push the stick forward a little. Makes sense when you think about it, but seemed counter-intuitive to me at the time.

I really enjoyed Greg's two day course at his private strip in Ashville, AL and learned a lot. He is a very knowledgeable airshow pilot, and the setup at Sky Country Lodge is very conducive to learning.

Looking forward to studying and applying Van's advice now that Fall weather is kicking in.

John

Last edited by jpowell13 : 10-01-2018 at 03:49 PM.
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  #14  
Old 10-01-2018, 05:28 PM
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JonJay JonJay is offline
 
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Not covered in many aerobatic guidelines: Once you have reached a safe altitude, do some clearing turns, just like you should have been taught for stalls, turns around a point, etc...
It also isn’t a bad idea to announce your position, operating area and intentions. My two favorite “practice” areas are also areas that can have frequent local flight school activity, which is just about everywhere in these parts.
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  #15  
Old 10-01-2018, 08:53 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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One more thing about loops. When I was getting some dual in a RV-4, we did a loop and I was told to try and get a stall buffet and recover at the top of the loop....

So inverted I increased back pressure and felt the buffet. I released the back pressure and the plane recovered, buffeting stopped immediately. The point, RV is pretty docile and will give you warning, and it fly's the same upside down as right side up.

The other point as was made above, just don't yank it back and hold on for it to come back around. You actually FLY the plane through the loop. That is why I mentioned LOOKING OUT THE CANOPY. You need to have situational awareness. Know about what airspeed, attitude and G's you should have at each part of the loop....

To do a loop by just pulling back and not adjusting your flight path (stick pressure) is like driving a race car at full speed into a turn and turning the wheel, holding that constant, closing your eyes and opening them when you think you are about to come out of the turn.... It might work out... might not.
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Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 10-01-2018 at 08:55 PM.
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  #16  
Old 10-02-2018, 08:48 AM
pvalovich pvalovich is offline
 
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA
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Default The Edge Is Still Part of the Envelope

As a former Navy A-4 Adversary pilot who spent a lot of time maneuvering the A-4 at the edge of a departure, the primary thing to keep in mind when maneuvering - the airplane doesn't know or care what its attitude with respect to the horizon is. It's all about angle of attack - the relative flow of air over the wing.

If you get uncomfortable and are nose high, stop the roll rate, hold the wing attitude regardless of where the horizon is, push forward on the stick and unload the g. You may be uncomfortable with negative g, and it may seem like it's taking forever for the nose to fall through the horizon and regain normal flight, but the plane will not depart/stall/spin when unloaded. Level the wings after the plane breaks the horizon and you have sufficient airspeed.

If you are nose down, power to idle, roll to the horizon, level the wings, then pull.
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2018, 09:57 AM
Christopher Murphy Christopher Murphy is offline
 
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Location: colorado
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Default If you dont have any acro experience

Quote:
Originally Posted by pvalovich View Post
As a former Navy A-4 Adversary pilot who spent a lot of time maneuvering the A-4 at the edge of a departure, the primary thing to keep in mind when maneuvering - the airplane doesn't know or care what its attitude with respect to the horizon is. It's all about angle of attack - the relative flow of air over the wing.

If you get uncomfortable and are nose high, stop the roll rate, hold the wing attitude regardless of where the horizon is, push forward on the stick and unload the g. You may be uncomfortable with negative g, and it may seem like it's taking forever for the nose to fall through the horizon and regain normal flight, but the plane will not depart/stall/spin when unloaded. Level the wings after the plane breaks the horizon and you have sufficient airspeed.

If you are nose down, power to idle, roll to the horizon, level the wings, then pull.
Get some training before you do it solo.
Its pretty simple but there are many ways to botch it up and you wont remember to push roll power stablize... you dont want to tail slide your rv
Cm
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2018, 12:09 PM
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smokyray smokyray is offline
 
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Default Over the Top...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Plumbmaster View Post
I'm looking for some step by step input for dong a loop in my RV6A. Powered by a 160 HP O320 with a constant speed prop but without inverted oil and fuel, I'm looking for the prop setting, entry speed, initial "G" pull, stick movement at various stages etc. I've joined the IAC and have made one acquaintance, but he's flying a different type aircraft, has inverted oil, fuel injection etc. Thus I would like to get some model specific input if possible.
The purpose here is to start a conversation about primary aerobatics only. This is not for instructional purposes and should not be used as such.
Ron
Several good posts above.
Bottom line, after 25 years of positive G (non inverted fuel/oil) aerobatics in my RV4/HR2 and RVX plus a few years (25) in the F16, my advice? (like you've heard before), Get some training!
Not that the level of difficulty is high, but RV's build up speed quickly with the nose buried and a demonstration of a few basics will help.
There are several RV guys out there and experienced CFI's who might give you some basic Acro instruction, Patty Wagstaff for one...

But hey Mav, if nobody else will will fly with you, let me know...

https://youtu.be/LgrVhdZde5U
RVX Basic Acro 101...

V/R
Smokey

Last edited by smokyray : 10-02-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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  #19  
Old 10-04-2018, 06:35 AM
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Plumbmaster Plumbmaster is offline
 
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Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 31
Smile Loops 101 Thanks

Hi guys,
Thanks for the responses.
Special thanks goes to to gmcjetpilot for providing the blow by blow progression of the maneuver.
Because I do not have a death wish, I'm on the hunt for an instructor in my area. To date my greatest weakness is the fact that I ave not performed a single spin in either of the two aircraft I ave owned. Primarily because the Cessna 150 was not spin certified and I'm unclear as to the rules regarding spins in RV's.

I fly a lot (100 hrs in the last four months) have a g meter and have done steep turns to the tune of 3.3 G's. I'm aware of not being within 4 nautical miles of an airway, staying clear of congested areas and doing clearing turns.

Lastly, as an aside, I spent the last couple of days in mainland China. No gmail, no internet to speak of. Interestingly enough, I was able to pick up CNN. The point of all this is we truly are a free country!
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  #20  
Old 10-04-2018, 08:17 AM
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Plumbmaster Plumbmaster is offline
 
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Location: Concord, CA
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Red face The Aerobatic Epistle

A great read-very informative. I'll be studying it for a while.
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Ron Lem
"Stubbs"
1995 RV6A N89PC Bought In 2018
160 HP O320, CS Hartzell Prop
2018 Dues Paid
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