What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

RV6 For IFR Flight

gwav8or

Member
Hello all! Future RVATOR here. My dream is to build an RV someday but I'm still deciding which one I want to build. In the mean time, I'm considering purchasing an RV. I really want to experience that RV grin in my own RV sooner rather than later. :) I'm considering selling my Cherokee 140 and purchasing an IFR equipped RV6. My mission will potentially include a 120nm commute once a week. I'm currently working on my IFR ticket in my 140 and won't move forward with an RV purchase until after I complete my IFR training.

My question is what is the RV6 like as an IFR platform? If/when I purchase an RV, I definitely want it to be IFR equipped and certified (or certifiable) with an IFR GPS and autopilot.

I have flown with a friend in his RV7, and I absolutely loved it! That solidified my intent to own/build an RV. Any input is much appreciated and if this is in the wrong forum, let me know and I'll be glad to move my post.

Thanks all!
 
My question is what is the RV6 like as an IFR platform? If/when I purchase an RV, I definitely want it to be IFR equipped and certified (or certifiable) with an IFR GPS and autopilot.

Thanks all!

First, a language thing. No EAB airplane is ?IFR certified?. You need to look at that particular airplane?s (the one you might buy) ?Operating Limitations?. If you see ?VFR only? then you may have a problem. Fortunately, you will most likely read, ?VFR only unless equipped in accordance with FAR 91.205...?, then you?re good to go ifr as long as the specified equipment is on board.
I think you?ll find the RV much less stable than what you?ve been flying. Great for vfr, but tiring for ifr. An autopilot is a good idea, just to keep you fresh.
 
Heated pitot, backup primary instrumentation (gauges and avionics) and adequate electrical system are appropriate. You will find that a good autopilot (including altitude hold) really aids in managing workload. Too many gadgets and nice-to-have extras may negatively impact your useful load -- particularly when endeavoring to carry max IFR reserves fuel.
 
Last edited:
As mentioned, a good autopilot would be my first requirement. After that, avionics similar to your 140 for muscle memory?s sake. Everything else is negotiable, IMHO.
 
If your IFR skills are sharp, the RV will be no problem in IFR conditions. An autopilot is nice, as others have said, but if you know how to trim the aircraft then I wouldn't consider it a go/no-go item.

Whenever this question comes up, I feel that the discussion always turns towards the negative aspects of the RV in IMC. Yeah, it's not going to stay-exactly-where-you-put-it like an Archer or 182. On the other hand, the light touch that makes the RV so fun to fly also makes it very capable during an ILS. I've done many ILSes to Cat-I mins (200 & ½) in mine and it's wonderfully responsive. Climb performance is another thing; being able to climb out of an inadvertant icing encounter or being able to be well above the MEA are also strengths relative to many other piston singles.

I would say that it's a great IFR platform, but one that requires proficiency more than others. It's probably less tolerant of the six-approaches-every-six-months crowd, but in exchange rewards the six-approaches-per-month crowd with performance, handling, and capability that exceeds the norm.

KCOQ RNAV (GPS) 17 to near-min LPV ceilings (click picture to watch video) on windy and wet day :

 
Do you want to shoot spproaches or just pass through some IMC?

If approaches, a WAAS IFR navigator allows destination and alternate to be GPS based approaches. That is an up front expensive decision vs. "just" a VOR/ILS.

Autopilots are now no-brainers.
 
Very very nice panel.

Thanks! Lots of the credit goes to Laird Owens though who made/sold the fiberglass panel. I then cut the insets for the instruments, radio stack, and engine cluster myself from the .062 aluminum supplied for the factory panel. It's worked great so far, and the combination of the Dynon Skyview, Dynon Autopilot, and Avidyne IFD540 provides more functionality than the regional jets I'm training for now...by a fair margin :)
 
I would say that it's a great IFR platform, but one that requires proficiency more than others. It's probably less tolerant of the six-approaches-every-six-months crowd, but in exchange rewards the six-approaches-per-month crowd with performance, handling, and capability that exceeds the norm.

+1

The RV-6 is much more pitch sensitive than most certified planes. I believe that it requires a significant level of attention to stay on top of it. That said, once you become comfortable managing it, there are no real drawbacks. That same sensitivity that let's it so easily depart from your desired altitude, also eases the task of dealing with turbulence in my opinion. Once you master it, it is pretty easy to handle the rougher wx on approach, though it is a rougher ride.

I got my IFR ticket in my 6, so once minted I was very comfortable with the platform. I believe a decent amount of practice is required when transitioning from a more stable platform. While I fly all of my approaches by hand for practice, I would not consider x-country flights without an AP. Just too much work.

I also agree with the proficiency comment. In rougher wx, things happen fast with the 6 and you need to be on your game when hand flying.

Larry
 
Last edited:
Depends a lot on your CG also. My 0-320, catto prop -6 is very pitch sensitive. I fly ifr for work and would never consider flying a ifr x-country without the autopilot and would avoid approaches at all cost. My CG is very aft due to the light engine combo, but she flies like a dream. I have a C/S prop on order and once installed, it will move the CG forward over an inch. The will make x-country flying much more enjoyable, due to the pitch rates. All rv’s are not the same. Just because one can fly stable ifr due to their 180/200 hp, C/S prop setup does not mean a 150/160hp fixed pitch prop plane can do the same. Keep the GG in the forward end of the range and it is much more stable.
 
Depends a lot on your CG also. My 0-320, catto prop -6 is very pitch sensitive. I fly ifr for work and would never consider flying a ifr x-country without the autopilot and would avoid approaches at all cost. My CG is very aft due to the light engine combo, but she flies like a dream. I have a C/S prop on order and once installed, it will move the CG forward over an inch. The will make x-country flying much more enjoyable, due to the pitch rates. All rv’s are not the same. Just because one can fly stable ifr due to their 180/200 hp, C/S prop setup does not mean a 150/160hp fixed pitch prop plane can do the same. Keep the GG in the forward end of the range and it is much more stable.

I have a 320 and Catto prop, though I do have a 20# crush plate. However, most of my IFR flights are near gross with a CG less than an inch from aft CG, often 1/4". I find landings harder to control in this state, but I have never observed approaches as difficult to fly. I suppose it is really all about how much time you spend with the plane and developing a comfort level with it. I have never flown an approach in anything but an RV-6, so my perspective is likely different than many others. I don't know what I am missing.

I do agree wholeheartedly that an AP is required equipment. I flew my 40 hours of training without ever using it except for the checkride, but it is a serious workload in cruise and takes the fun out of flying. I never really thought about the aft CG causing that, but I am sure you're right. Unfortunately there is no realistic way to get the CG fwd on my 6. I had considered the 9's 320 mount, but shy'ed away from the work and cost involved.

On the flipside, I find the plane flys much better without the weight up front. I have flown with and without the 20# crush plate and it flys MUCH nicer without it, though I have never considered the pitch sensitivity in that evaluation. However, I just can't get the baggage weight I want/need without it.

Larry
 
Last edited:
I suppose it is really all about how much time you spend with the plane and developing a comfort level with it. I have never flown an approach in anything but an RV-6, so my perspective is likely different than many others. I don't know what I am missing.

I agree. Once you get used to something, it becomes automatic. I hand flew from Cedar Key, FL back to St. Paul MN (with fuel stops, of course), because the shear screw in the Dynon AP roll servo...sheared...and flying with just the pitch servo felt odd. It was not nearly as taxing as I thought it was going to be, and CG was towards the aft end of the envelope (but not right up against it). I might have waited for better weather if I was solo, but my wife was along and could hold the stick for a bit while I looked at ForeFlight or whatever.

I have flown approaches in a variety of light aircraft, and what you are missing is a control feel that some would call "stable" and others would call "lumbering". If you can fly a good approach in an RV on green needles / raw data, I think you could hand fly a good approach in most aircraft.
 
Last edited:
You can fly IFR in a RV, without autopilit, if you follow all applicable FAR's and common sense. However +1 on autopilot and competent currency for any single pilot IFR Ops. You can fly without autopilot, but if you get distracted with a task, get into an unusual attitude pointed down, speed will build quickly in a RV, faster than a C-172. Are you Instrument rated pilot now? If yes how much instrument time (on IFR flight plan and/or IMC) a year do you fly? Do you fly with or without autopilot now?

I hand flew my RV-4 IMC with no autopilot, but 100% of my attention was flying. Fishing for charts was not easy. The NICE thing about hand flying IFR with RV's is they handle nice, they are precise in their control, do what you want not. However being short coupled in turbulence, they yaw or fishtail. It is controllable by hand and instruments, to be sure if you are competently current in your RV for IFR Ops. I am not sure how autopilots keep up to the RV's in turbulence, never used autopilot in an RV.

My RV-4 had VOR/LOC/GS/MB and VFR GPS (for situational awareness). Approach approved GPS were N/A 20 years ago. My typical IFR/IMC time was popping up for IFR climbs to VFR on-top or IFR let downs from VFR "over the top". This is way safer than trying to circle up/down in a hole. Also departing IFR to VFR due to morning fog, popping out into the sun at 500 or 1000 feet AGL was great. IFR capability is handy landing at busy Class-B or Class-C airport, even when in VFR WX. Filing IFR to busy airports in congested airspace makes arrival straight forward, verses a convoluted VFR arrival you never flew. 90% of my RV-4 flying was VFR. All the hassle of equipping and keeping your RV current for IFR Ops, in retrospect, was not worth it. However it added safety and options. On the other hand, many VFR EFIS panels today have IFR NAV equivalent ability (moving map, approach plate overlay). Not legal to file IFR, at least you have this information for reference for VFR flight. Not saying fly IMC/IFR in violation of any FAR, but it does add situational awareness, along with terrain avoidance. My current RV-7 project will be "Deluxe VFR Cross Country", with advanced EFIS and autopilot. If I want to fly IMC I'll do it at work or rent/borrow an airplane.

An autopilot, even for VFR is great, it adds equivalent MPH block speed on cross country, by holding TRACK precisely (verses small track wondering when hand flying). I talk to many RV builders/VFR pilots, and they look at their autopilot as saving their tail if they inadvertently fly into IMC. I'd agree that is a selling point, but as a CFI/II, prefer pilots practice their instrument skills as well. Even commercial pilots instrument skills suffer by using the autopilot too much. Now, today there are so many quality single and two axis autopilots to chose from, at reasonable price, with installation kits for RV's, it's a much easier decision and choice to make building today. Many EFIS panels have autopilot option add-ons, as well as the standalone autopilot brands, TruTrak or EZ-pilot. All good stuff.
 
Last edited:
My 6 is VOR/ILS and don?t have an altitude autopilot, so I hand fly the whole time I?m IFR. I will say I wish I had a certified GPS and am actively looking, as it just opens up options. So many smaller fields only have the GPS option these days. I?m based out of an ILS field, so it works out....but man, If GPS is an option, I?d go that route.
 
Sadly, my plane is allowed to fly IFR but I am not, yet.

I heeded the autopilot advice (2-Axis) and probably overspent a bit on the panel. I learned during recent IFR certification check that when a backup altimeter is installed it too must be to standards. [That meant rebuilding it] Also had some static leaks. All and all, the inspection cost a bit more than expected, but even VFR I know my P/S based instrumentation is completely up to snuff so there is some comfort where my $$$ used to be. :)

And since you asked for photos:
A
https://rolivi.smugmug.com/My-First-Gallery/i-67W483g/A
 
RV6 for IFR WTB

I?m a prior RV-6 owner thats looking to purchase an RV-6 that is IFR capable or could be made IFR capable without getting upside down financially. Thought I?d reply to this thread in case anyone following it might know of one that isn?t currently on the usual websites. I?m only looking for a 360 powered TW.
Thanks,
Jim
 
Back
Top