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APRS Tracker wish list

V

VHS

Well Known Member
I am going into a new round of product development, and if there is anything you would like to see in terms of products for aviation tracking, now is the time to speak up! New products currently on the boards include a Micro-Trak based on the TinyTrack 4 ( allows you to receive and display other APRS trackers on your compatible GPS display receiver) and an all-in-one transmit-only tracker for portable use.

A number of people have asked me about doing a high power tracker,(10 Watts) with a metal case, and a remote panel for display and control. On board voltage regulation would be included.

I can't guarantee that I will make everything you want, but maybe I can get a little closer.

Allen R. Lord
VHS Products
 
Allen- Well, you asked for it!

1. What would be involved in two-way text messaging? Rather than creating a unit with a complicated and expensive display and data input device (keyboard or equivalent), it would be really cool if the APRS transmitter could interface with an EFIS which would provide the display and data input capability. This would allow text messaging to and from any computer with an internet connection. I realize this would take some more development than just your box, but if we're talking a perfect world here, well,...:D

2. Emergency broadcast capability, activated by a single button, which continuously beacons at maximum rate, maximum power, with a preset mayday message requesting SAR deployment.

3. Other APRS aircraft targets on the EFIS.
 
I would like to see a transmitter only that had everything on the board and that could be mounted in a fiberglass wingtip. This would have the tinytrack4, 8 - 10W transmitter, Voltage Regulater so if can be powered directly from the 12 - 14V airplane power and a on board GPS module with the built in Antenna. This type of device would only need Power and Ground and some form of VHF Antenna.


Ray
 
Noah said:
Allen- Well, you asked for it!

1. What would be involved in two-way text messaging? Rather than creating a unit with a complicated and expensive display and data input device (keyboard or equivalent), it would be really cool if the APRS transmitter could interface with an EFIS which would provide the display and data input capability. This would allow text messaging to and from any computer with an internet connection. I realize this would take some more development than just your box, but if we're talking a perfect world here, well,...:D

Noah, Too late! Our TT4 Transceiver will have an LCD and a Keyboard input. I don't know how the EFIS interface works, but if it speaks any form of RS-232, Byon could potentiallly write software for it. I view this one as very doable.

2. Emergency broadcast capability, activated by a single button, which continuously beacons at maximum rate, maximum power, with a preset mayday message requesting SAR deployment.

This function is already fully supported in all Micro-Traks.3. Other APRS aircraft targets on the EFIS.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the input
Allen
VHS
 
Wishlist

Hi Allen,

You mentioned the capability to display other tracker locations on a compatible GPS. Any chance you could also receive TIS and ADS-B transmissions and display their locations on the compatible GPS as well?
 
"Any chance you could also receive TIS and ADS-B transmissions and display their locations on the compatible GPS as well? "

I have no idea of their communication formats. The display receivers can only generate a finite set of characters, so I am not sure what it would look like. I suppose its possible......Is this something that there would be a wider demand for?

The TT4 has a variety of analog and digital inputs. Generally, these inputs are read and transmitted as data in the APRS packet stream, not up-loaded to a GPS. I am going out of town ( Taking a Ropes Course for Instructors-It may possibly kill me, in which case forget about new products.....) But I will discuss the concept with Byon when I get back.

Allen
 
Keyboard in the Cockpit?

Allen, I don't know if you've spent any time in an RV cockpit before, but real estate is definitely at a premium, especially with all of the other goodies which are becoming available. I for one would not purchase a device which requires use of a keyboard while airborne. It's OK on the ground for doing firmware and software upgrades, but while flying? No way. Ditto for a dedicated LCD screen.

All things electronic in the cockpit are moving towards integration with a central controller (usually combines EFIS, engine monitor, moving map, weather display, etc. - BTW most have RS-232 capability). Devices which interface with this central controller have a definite advantage in my book. Think about it - the EFIS already has a small and eficient data input device appropriate for in-flight use, and a large, sunlight readable screen. Devices which duplicate this data input / display functionality and which serve no other purpose just take up valuable space IMHO. Devices which can serve double duty, triple duty, etc. are the way things are moving. There are other benefits too. If you eliminated the LCD and keyboad inputs, you could make the device smaller, lighter, and cheaper which might sell more units. CO Guardian's product is a good example. Their CO sensors plug into the EFIS and give you warnings (verbal, aural, and optical, if you want) of carbon monoxide levels in the cockpit.

I see the ideal APRS transciever as being fully controlled through the EFIS, and having the transceiver being remotely mounted. At most I might want a couple of LEDs on the panel for power status, transmit status, and the like. And as far as painting airborne APRS targets on the GPS, that's great. Even better would be front and center on the EFIS screen, in large scale, with declutter capability just like every other kind of data presented such as lightning strikes, NEXRAD, airspace, roads, rivers, waypoints, and NAVAIDS. A dedicated APRS screen or window might show incoming text messages (along with a unique "bing-bong" sound, or a sexy female voice saying "incoming APRS message, Mr. Studly Pilot Guy":D and allow a space for outgoing message composition "We've got some headwinds, and expect to be there a half hour late". This would represent a nicely integrated product with today (tomorrow's) avionics systems. But hey, that's just me!
 
TT4

Allen,
I have an onboard Pentium M computer that I use to run moving map software and to communicate with my engine data acq box, my electronic ignitions, etc. Could I use this computer to replace the LCD display and keyboard on the TT4? I have not purchased my APRS system yet because I was trying to figure out a way to use one radio for APRS and email. Sounds like you might have the answer. How does it work? Does it just switch freqs between APRS and airmail? Could it be easily controlled via my onboard computer. Will I need to write software to do it or is there software already available. Thanks.
 
This is just brainstorming

So do not take comments as viable, feasible or even a good idea at this point.

1) When I heard about your post (while airborne today), I though about having pre-canned messages that could go out on the transmission. Not sure how many or how they would be selected. Actually, the pre-canned messages was Rick's idea.

2) The issue of a keyboard came up but would a smallish numeric keypad like on a phone be adequate for short messages?

3) I am pondering a system and where it would be mounted. While in the wingtip offers some advantages if an antenna works ok, having access to the status LEDs and possible input/selection options may drive it to a panel mount or at least a panel access point/system.

This may be the numeric keypad, a small scrolling screen for the messages (input/output?) and a protected 'mayday" switch/toggle/???. May also require a USB port.

Do note that some of us do not have..and may never have..an EFIS system.
 
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Range to Buddy

Allen,
These little airplanes we fly are hard to find if you're meeting in the air. I routinely hook up with Ron Lee from the Colorado Springs area and we spend lots of time and transmissions finding each other. If you're not within two miles, these airplanes are invisible.
What about the ability to filter incoming APRS transmissions based on a call sign (or other) and show me range, bearing, and delta altitude from my current location? The little 4x16 LCD display could handle that. Of course we'd want faster rate transmissions for that mode and that would require a switch to enable, but this might be useful. The display could normally show nearest airborne APRS and when you see the one you want, you could select and have it track only that one til reset. How tough would that be? To the community, how useful would something like that be?
 
grenwis said:
Allen,
These little airplanes we fly are hard to find if you're meeting in the air. I routinely hook up with Ron Lee from the Colorado Springs area and we spend lots of time and transmissions finding each other. If you're not within two miles, these airplanes are invisible.
What about the ability to filter incoming APRS transmissions based on a call sign (or other) and show me range, bearing, and delta altitude from my current location? The little 4x16 LCD display could handle that. Of course we'd want faster rate transmissions for that mode and that would require a switch to enable, but this might be useful. The display could normally show nearest airborne APRS and when you see the one you want, you could select and have it track only that one til reset. How tough would that be? To the community, how useful would something like that be?
Click to expand...


My intuition is that it is beyond the processing power of our processor. It will be possible with the TT4 to "poll" other stations (ask where they are and have them respond) but I think you can do this now; Set your GPS screen to cover an area (zoom in or out) that you anticipate is within your scheduled rendezvous range (say 3 miles) in the secondary setting of your Micro-Traks configuration screen, use an alternate picture ( the big jet, or a horse or something recognizable) When you both show up in the screen, you can see your relative positions. Hopefully, in a 2 mile grid square, you won't have dozens of horses flying around.....

I like your idea! The weapons system guy within me loves the idea of providing targeting info: Range, bearing, relative velocity...


Allen
VHS
 
I'm not an APRS user yet and probably has limited use in NZ as not many others are doing likewise.

However I can see a real value for a 'group' that wants to know where each other is and want to get together in the air. The key would be to generate TIS type RS232 data stream from the local APRS signals - probably with a range function being calculated from the relative GPS positions. Most of the EFIS/Nav system can (or will be able) to take TIS type feeds, and I asusme it is open standard. Would be really cool to be able to highlight your 'known buddies' on the NAV screen and go find :)

Just some thoughts....

Carl

PS: Now if I could understand the principles (electronics) of listerning to transponder replies (or find someone that does) I'd be keen to work on a microprocessor / coding to generate quadrant info as TIS too.
PPS: If there was a complete simple package that could be wrapped up / installed - for sensible money - interesting 'gift' for other pilot mates....... Battery powered, just throw in the flight bag.
 
zkvii said:
I'm not an APRS user yet and probably has limited use in NZ as not many others are doing likewise.

However I can see a real value for a 'group' that wants to know where each other is and want to get together in the air. The key would be to generate TIS type RS232 data stream from the local APRS signals - probably with a range function being calculated from the relative GPS positions. Most of the EFIS/Nav system can (or will be able) to take TIS type feeds, and I asusme it is open standard. Would be really cool to be able to highlight your 'known buddies' on the NAV screen and go find :)

Just some thoughts....

Carl

PS: Now if I could understand the principles (electronics) of listerning to transponder replies (or find someone that does) I'd be keen to work on a microprocessor / coding to generate quadrant info as TIS too.
PPS: If there was a complete simple package that could be wrapped up / installed - for sensible money - interesting 'gift' for other pilot mates....... Battery powered, just throw in the flight bag.
Click to expand...



Oooooh, you are making my brain hurt!

Allen
VHS
 
Brain pain

I have no objection to developing new stuff directly for aviation ( where else am I going to find customers that are so used to getting hosed by vendors!) I am just not as familiar with avionics as I should be. ( I have a GROL with Radar, but little experience under the hood of aircraft) Byon, our software guru seems amenable to interfacing your black mystery boxes to to our transmitters. I am sure that our TT4 will be the platform of choice for this, since it is an APRS transceiver. The APRS network lets you send E-Mail, interrogate other APRS stations, send telemetry, and lots features with very interesting applications for aircraft! I am guessing that you guys won't leave me wanting for beta testers as we find new things to do!

Allen
VHS
 
Garmin?

If you can find a way to make the TT4 display APRS targets on the Garmin X96 you'll sell a whole bunch of em'.

I also like the idea of sending precanned messaging like for instance 'unplanned fuel stop because of winds', '$100 burger stop', etc. I could also see the possibility of voice recognition combined with a simple interface replacing a keyboard for text messaging. A small cockpit display could also multitask for text messaging, checklists, weather, and other types of info you generally wouldn't want to have taking up space on an EFIS.
 
Davepar said:
I found a spec for the data format the GDL-90 outputs. If an APRS product could emulate the traffic reporting messages of that format, many of the GPS screens we have in our cockpit could display the APRS traffic. That would enable the "find my buddy" feature discussed above.

Here's the spec:
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rams/capstone/media/GDL90_Public_ICD_RevA.PDF
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that the Garmin handhelds won't accept that format, unfortunately. The GDL 90 also has an output format that emulates the TIS data spit out by a GTX 330 mode S transponder, and that's what the 396/496 can accept.

mcb
 
I would have thought the EFIS guys should be able to help with a 'standard' format definition. Especially as we RV builders are commonly using the MGL/Dynon/AFS/GRT/BMA screens. I really like the idea of being able to find buddies in the air...... (obviously doesn't help with the rest of the GA population.....)

Carl
 
Allen

I am definitely going to join the APRS crowd, but this thread has me thinking maybe I should wait a bit.

I have seen your comments and website and have some questions. Are you working on a new aviation product? If so, I guess I should wait. Or, are you thinking about new software/code for the TT4 , so buying now and upgrading later is not such an issue?

If I go the TT4 route what transmitter do I need?


As for wishes, I think the "traffic" location output to an EFIS display that already accepts it would be a tremendous selling point. A "poor mans" ADSB. ANd the capability to send a few premade messages would be great as well.


Thanks for joining our group and being available for questions.
 
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I decided to get an update on what might be included in a new product and see many responses the last two days. Rick is right about the meet up in the air coming from different places.

Yet I must be missing what you are using to display targets. I do not have an EFIS but do have a Garmin GNS 430.
 
Thoughts

Hi,

OK - firstly this is Allen's baby / product - he can go any direction he likes.....

I've had a quick look at the TT4 and my understanding is it is a standard ATMega Microprocessor plus a 232 driver chip. It acts like a protocol converter between the GPS feed and the Transceiver. This is a great basis for flexible development and the higher value that Allen provides is in the updatable firmware / GUI configuration tool.

My thoughts for an 'aviation' version of the product would go slightly further - I would suggest a ATMega (20Mhz 32X series is great), plus 232 and possibly 422 driver combined with a 12V power feed AND a radio transceiver all on the single board. This single board can then have a RS232 GPS feed into it (from what ever system - preferably with NMEA or Aviation format), an aerial to attach to it, 12V power / ground plus outputs for the display of buddies.

Output displays could be any of GNS430(w)s, EFIS/MFD, or a maybe an independent simple standalone LCD text display.

The key here is a single board that can be mounted - in planes we don't even have to have the 'box' around it. It would be great to have an open architecture and have the ISP port available also that way it could be used as either generic hardware board, or with Allen's advanced firmware.

Two things that I haven't found / researched yet -

a) the transceiver - is it a standard part/components that can be PCB mounted?

b) what is the best TIS RS232 standard(s) that can be used to pass the information to the display devices. Dave Parson's link has real potential but seems to be limited to Garmin format and RS422 which is a bit more of a hassle. My understanding is the GTX330 TIS is via ARINC - is this RS422 also / identical?

In summary - two parts to the problem - hardware basis (I think Allen is our man here), software - possibility for more development collaboration from the VAF community.

Regards,

Carl (thinking about who he can give a 'findme' tracker to.... :p )

PS: Can a complete product be sold as a black box for 'users' without them having a HAM license?
 
mburch said:
I'm pretty sure that the Garmin handhelds won't accept that format, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Do you have any idea what format they will take?

My 496 is supposed to have the capability of displaying traffic. The following two sections are from the 496 manual.

Gramin 496 manual said:
TIS Traffic is available to aircraft equipped with a Mode S Data Link such as the Garmin GTX 330 Transponder. TIS Traffic from a GTX 330 Transponder can then be shown on the GPSMAP 496. Surveillance data includes all transponder-equipped aircraft within the coverage volume. Aircraft without an operating transponder are invisible to TIS. TIS shows up to eight traffic targets within 7 nautical miles horizontally from 3,000 feet below to 3,000 feet above the requesting aircraft. Refer to page 159 for information on connecting your GPSMAP 496 to a GTX 330 Mode S transponder.
Click to expand...
Garmin 496 manual - page 159 said:
Connecting to a GTX 330 Mode S Transponder
To receive Mode S TIS traffic data from a GTX 330 transponder on your GPSMAP 496, connect an available RS-232 OUT pin on the transponder to the Data In pin on the GPSMAP 496. (You do not need to connect the transponder to the GPSMAP 496's Data Out pin.) Then, set the corresponding RS-232 output configuration on the transponder to REMOTE + TIS and set the GPSMAP 496's Serial Data Format to TIS In or TIS In/NMEA & VHF Out. For more information, see the TIS section on page 147 (quote above) and the GTX 330 Transponder Installation manual.
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in the tracking feature but if you could come up with a simple traffice system that will feed the 496, I would be all over that.
 
N941WR said:
Do you have any idea what format they will take?
Click to expand...

Well, it takes a serial format that's spit out by the GTX 330, but unfortunately it's a Garmin proprietary thing that's not currently publicly documented anywhere...

mcb
 
reality check

N941WR said:
I'm not interested in the tracking feature but if you could come up with a simple traffice system that will feed the 496, I would be all over that.
Click to expand...

Just to be clear - anything that has been discussed here (to date) is only about showing other APRS enabled aircraft on the traffic display. Buddy finding capability rather than 'traffic'.

Carl
 
zkvii said:
Just to be clear -
Click to expand...
I got that but I'm trying to stoke the fire a little. If someone could come up with a simple, reasonably priced, plug-in for the 496, they would sell like hotcakes.

BTW, I haven't been a real fan of "fish finders" because I fear pilots will stop looking out the window for things like Cubs, Champs, & T-crafts w/ no electrics and thus no transponder.

However, I heard a story from a friend last night about how he was in level flight with flight following when his TIS went off. Traffic was at 2 miles and straight ahead.

He moved to one side and a Mooney went by him going the other way at the same altitude. The Mooney pilot never even knew he was there.

After they passed ATC came back, called the traffic and when my friend said it wasn't a factor because he just passed by ATC apologized.

That story made a believer out of me.

Thus a search for resonably priced system that can tie into my existing avionics for a resonable price. (Sorry, all the stuff currently on the market is not reasonably priced so please don't post any of it, I've looked at all of the options.)
 
The 496 will reportedly also accept traffic info from the ZAON XRX (?) traffic detector so the format but be available somewhere.
 
Buddy spotting

The Byonics TT4 has two serial I/O ports. Ordinarily, one is used to connect to a GPS. Information from the GPS is sent to the TT4 for transmission, and data from the TT4 is sent to the GPS, where other APRS units are then displayed. The standard NMEA 4800 Baud protocol is used to communicate with the GPS, but there are other standards (Garmin proprietary, etc.) These standards offer various degrees of support for uploaded waypoints, i.e., the ability to display certain Icons, etc.

That being said, any display device (GPS, etc.) can theoretically have a firmware version for the TT4. It sounds like you guys have a wide variety of device types. What is the most prevalent? The plain old-fashioned Garmin GPS, or other flight computers?

I am working on our single channel 1/2 Watt Micro-Trak based on the TT4 ( the prototype works well) Using a standard NMEA display GPS should allow spotting in-flight pals very straightforward. We will certainly explore supporting other devices, but if you can let me know the best one to work on first, it would be a great help.

Allen
VHS
 
Hi Allen,

Can you explain a little more - does the TT4 create 'moving waypoints' as the other traffic? Interesting concept hadn't thought of that as an option.

A 'standard' for ARINC TIS data (eg GTX330 to GNS430) is found in "ARINC 735A-1 Mark 2 Traffic Alert and Collision Avoidance System (TCAS)" but I've been unable to locate a copy of the key information from a quick search.

The Garmin proprietary stuff between things like Zaon and 496 I'm sure is licensed :(

In regard to 'common' display devices (a rough guessed order):

Garmin x96 portable units
Generically EFIS heads (but split into various suppliers as mentioned above - I know GRT support GTX and Zaon based TIS, unsure about the others)
Garmin 430/530 panel installed units - probably more than any one EFIS supplier, but less the EFIS total.

Regards,

Carl
 
Go straight to the source

Allen

Agree that the best bang for your buck would be to use the protocol most supported, either Garmin or Zaon.

Call Todd at GRT, they have always been very helpful and honest when communicating with them. They should be able to help you with a protocol recommendation and how to do it.
PH (616) 245-7700


I take it by your comments that the new unit will be TT4 and transmitter in one package. Sounds great.
 
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VHS said:
...We will certainly explore supporting other devices, but if you can let me know the best one to work on first, it would be a great help.

Allen
VHS
Click to expand...

Allen,

It seems to me that a whole lot of folks are using the Garmin 296, 396, and 496/495. I think starting here would definitely give you the most bang for your buck... also the most bang for the users buck.
 
Garmin 496

I downloaded the manual for the 496 ( Geez, do you guys actually change things on that while you are flying!!!? Talks about multi-tasking!) It already supports NMEA input/output, so marrying it to the TT4 should be more or less plug-and-play! Spoofing TIS and other workarounds "should" not have to be a consideration. When I get back from the big Ham convention in Dayton, Ohio ( Those hams know how to pick a party atmosphere, don't they?) I will try to get my hands on one and see if it does what it should, vis a vis, displaying airplanes as airplanes. Does anybody in the Northern California area have one of these?

Allen
VHS
 
License a protocol? I'm sure if that was possible, Hayes would have done it for modems a zillion years ago and still be in business today. If the protocol is proprietary, that just means it has to be reverse-engineered instead of being able to read a nice public spec. I wasn't able to pull up the Zaon site, but I'll try again tonight. Our current products here don't display traffic, so I don't have any specs on hand.

I'm willing to lend some help to the effort, if needed. It would be cool to be able to see other APRS targets on a screen.

Although a much more ambitious product, an all-in-one traffic tracker like Bill mentioned would be killer. Something that listens for TIS packets, ADS-B, and APRS and spits them out to a screen (EFIS or GPS) would be a hot seller. Garmin currently charges a $1500 premium just for TIS. I have no idea what ADS-B costs, but I'm sure it's much more than that.
 
VHS said:
I downloaded the manual for the 496 ( Geez, do you guys actually change things on that while you are flying!!!? Talks about multi-tasking!) It already supports NMEA input/output, so marrying it to the TT4 should be more or less plug-and-play! Spoofing TIS and other workarounds "should" not have to be a consideration. When I get back from the big Ham convention in Dayton, Ohio ( Those hams know how to pick a party atmosphere, don't they?) I will try to get my hands on one and see if it does what it should, vis a vis, displaying airplanes as airplanes. Does anybody in the Northern California area have one of these?
Click to expand...

Hi Allen - I'm an embedded software geek at San Carlos. I have a 496 you can play with a bit. We might be able to even capture the existing TIS stream from my transponder to look at it.

Btw - the following patent describes the TIS packets when sent over the air to the transponder. I wouldn't be surprised if they are passed unmolested over the serial link to the 496:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6512975.html

I couldn't find a web reference that actually documents the over the wire protocol (though this patent does give the name of that document)
 
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ADS-B

Is the uplink frequency for ADS-B , 978 Mhz? If the data is receivable, it may be possible to use the TT4 and display the info on a GPS. Any idea what format the data-flavor it comes in? Is there any advantage to a receive only system for ADS-B? ( yes, I know, you would like a transmitter too, but FCC approval for transmitters is a whole different world!) Looking at the info online, it looks like the system is similar in many respect to APRS.

Allen
VHS
 
I believe UAT is being used in the U.S., which Wikipedia says is 978 MHz.

There is a benefit to receive-only. Near large airports, ground stations transmit all traffic (ADS-B equipped or not) out over ADS-B.

Being able to transmit would be handy in the hinter-land, but traffic is much less of an issue anyway. At some point, it sounds like the FAA will mandate ADS-B transmitters for aircraft in certain areas, but that is likely a long way away and will be fought by the various airplane owner lobbying groups.

I have no idea about the format of the messages, but it must be online somewhere. Too bad it doesn't just use the compressed APRS format. Guess they wanted to re-invent the wheel.
 
VHS said:
Is the uplink frequency for ADS-B , 978 Mhz? If the data is receivable, it may be possible to use the TT4 and display the info on a GPS. Any idea what format the data-flavor it comes in? Is there any advantage to a receive only system for ADS-B? ( yes, I know, you would like a transmitter too, but FCC approval for transmitters is a whole different world!) Looking at the info online, it looks like the system is similar in many respect to APRS.
Click to expand...

A reasonably priced receive only ADS-B decoder would sell like hotcakes I suspect.
 
The grail??...

Davepar said:
Although a much more ambitious product, an all-in-one traffic tracker like Bill mentioned would be killer. Something that listens for TIS packets, ADS-B, and APRS and spits them out to a screen (EFIS or GPS) would be a hot seller.
Click to expand...

It would be great to see this as a colabrative effort - listening for Transponder / TIS packets plus APRS would have a world wide possibilites for the experimental market.

I'd be keen to get involved - it is the Transponder / TIS / ADS-B reciever hardware component that is way over my head. Once we have a data stream - then the rest is software / coding / conversions.... ('the rest' he says.... I'm starting to sound too much like salesman!)

Carl
 
Interesting Product

I found this company a few months back while surfing on the web...

http://www.kineticavionics.co.uk/sbs-1.php

An ADS/B and TIS (Mode-S) receiver for ground stations.

They are also working on a ADS/B Xponder

http://www.kineticavionics.co.uk/last.php

So, combine this with APRS and output to a EFIS/GPS unit.

Major Cool! :cool:


[edit]

US Distributor is here...

http://www.4cellular.com/index.php?cPath=73&osCsid=7ca707f2f19563510dafa262804e2a4e

Looks like the ADS/B receiver is running $700.

--
Michael
 
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ADS-B Out

Do not count on the FAA mandating ADS-B Out. Other than airlines and college students, ADS-B Out was not well-received. And for good reason since it is a very flawed concept as it applies to GA. If you want to jump up and down in anticipation for ADS-B Out, the way I read it is that you will have to have a certified (TSOd) GPS/WAAS receiver to provide the position input to the ADS-B Out transponder.

With a tentative mandate date of 2020, incorporating ADS-B (as from other aircraft) at this time is probably premature and a waste of time.
 
sonex293 said:
I found this company a few months back while surfing on the web...

http://www.kineticavionics.co.uk/sbs-1.php

An ADS/B and TIS (Mode-S) receiver for ground stations.

They are also working on a ADS/B Xponder

http://www.kineticavionics.co.uk/last.php

So, combine this with APRS and output to a EFIS/GPS unit.

Major Cool! :cool:


[edit]

US Distributor is here...

http://www.4cellular.com/index.php?cPath=73&osCsid=7ca707f2f19563510dafa262804e2a4e

Looks like the ADS/B receiver is running $700.

--
Michael
Click to expand...

This unit is on 1029 MHZ. I am very confused about what frequency is used in the U.S......

Allen
VHS
 
ADS-B frequencies

From the ADS-B Out NPRM, para IV. B, page 56592 of the federal register version:

"In 2002, the United States determined that two frequencies would be appropriate for ADS?B: 1090MHz and 978MHz."

I am assuming that the ground element of this system would have to transmit on both of those frequencies. I believe that the GA frequency, 978 MHz, is also known as or Universal Access Transceiver (UAT).

I don't recall the frequency used in Europe but a google search might reveal it.
 
I thought that 1090MHz was the normal transponder frequency

Carl

PS: Ron - got a link for the "ADS-B Out NPRM" referenced above?
 
If you haven't already run your final revision...

Make the break-out holes for the processor bigger! It's nearly impossible to get wires in there at their current size. My application has a transmit LED, a GPS good LED, and a force packet switch. I took the LEDs out of their holes and wired in there, but the force packet switch was very difficult to get situated.
Also, with the way I wired the serial connector in, small through-holes would have been very welcome.
Here's the under the covers view:
http://danielsprojects.com/microtrak/microtrak_assembled2.JPG
 
Daniel Hooper said:
If you haven't already run your final revision...

Make the break-out holes for the processor bigger! It's nearly impossible to get wires in there at their current size. My application has a transmit LED, a GPS good LED, and a force packet switch. I took the LEDs out of their holes and wired in there, but the force packet switch was very difficult to get situated.
Also, with the way I wired the serial connector in, small through-holes would have been very welcome.
Here's the under the covers view:
http://danielsprojects.com/microtrak/microtrak_assembled2.JPG
Click to expand...

I have been up to my elbows in getting my new portable design going, the Micro-Trak AIO, so I have not been able to do much on the Aviation/Marine version. Here is what I am pretty sure will be on your version:

1) Lightweight, high strength aluminum enclosure.
2) Male DB9 Serial input for our GPS2 or any NMEA GPS
3) Anderson Power pole power input
4) BNC RF output
5) Built in 12 volt regulator
6)Some kind of multipin connector for a remote control panel, to include capability for:

a. Power on/off
b. Configuration change
c. Force send (IDENT)
d. GPS and Xmit LED

The electronics will center around my 8 Watt, frequency agile design. I am still pretty far from a finalized design, so input is still welcome.

Allen
VHS
 
Is there any way to adjust transmit power in firmware? If so, it would be possible to adjust transmit power based on altitude or on a coordinate grid map. This would let you blast at ground level and in remote areas while keeping it quiet around urban areas where there are lots of repeaters.
 
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