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  #21  
Old 09-30-2018, 10:24 AM
kkmarshall kkmarshall is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Central Tx
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I am hesitant to post this as two people that criticized doing a quick oil change without pulling the bottom cowl are very respected posters here and I rarely post. I always have a look see in the engine compartment anytime any part of the engine is uncowled. I can't speak to the two place RV's,but on a RV10 there is a large amount of room between the engine and cowl sides. I can see all the exhaust,control cables,hoses & lines,EGT & CHT probes and all their wiring,as well as all the nose gear and it's suspension. About the only parts not readily visible are the starter and alternator and those are easily inspected with my flexible borescope camera. I would never do an oil change and ignore what things look like in the engine compartment. If you don't have a helper the RV10 lower cowl is a bear to reinstall by yourself. If I said I didn't believe in safety wiring the oil filter,I could see the need for criticism,but this seems a bit excessive. Rant off. Apologies if I offended anyone.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2018, 10:40 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkmarshall View Post
I am hesitant to post this as two people that criticized doing a quick oil change without pulling the bottom cowl are very respected posters here and I rarely post. I always have a look see in the engine compartment anytime any part of the engine is uncowled. I can't speak to the two place RV's,but on a RV10 there is a large amount of room between the engine and cowl sides. I can see all the exhaust,control cables,hoses & lines,EGT & CHT probes and all their wiring,as well as all the nose gear and it's suspension. About the only parts not readily visible are the starter and alternator and those are easily inspected with my flexible borescope camera. I would never do an oil change and ignore what things look like in the engine compartment. If you don't have a helper the RV10 lower cowl is a bear to reinstall by yourself. If I said I didn't believe in safety wiring the oil filter,I could see the need for criticism,but this seems a bit excessive. Rant off. Apologies if I offended anyone.
I don't think it's wrong to do an oil change with the bottom cowl on. However, I do advocate doing a visual inspection as often as possible. It only takes a few minutes and will allow the owner to become more intimate with their engine and have a greater likelihood of finding issues before they become ugly problems. Looking at the engine only at annual time, just isn't enough in my opinion, if you are putting on lots of hours in a year.

This is just a philosophy to help stay ahead of problems, it is by no means the only way to do things and each should be comfortable with their own approach.

Consider the number of folks here that have had their top carb screws loosen and didn't find it until the engine ran very poorly. I found loose bolts on my starter (a common problem on Skytec's) that I caught before it fell apart and possibly damaged itself of something else. This is two examples where an unobstructed view of the bottom is necessary. Consider the security of the heim on your throttle arm. If it falls off, you have either no power or way more than you want for landing.

I personally take every opportunity to look at the engine and encourage others to do the same. However, it is just an opinion. Lots of certified planes only get looked at once a year and lots of folks only put on 25 hours in a year. I do over 150.

Also, I don't safety wire my oil filter as I don't see the need. 10's of millions of cars have been produced with this style of oil filter and I have never heard of one falling off that was installed properly. Though I don't criticize anyone for doing it.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 09-30-2018 at 01:19 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2018, 12:51 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkmarshall View Post
If I said I didn't believe in safety wiring the oil filter, I could see the need for criticism, ...
It's interesting to note that back in 2013, Robinson Helicopter issued Service Letters deleting the need for safety wire on many components in their helicopters, including the engine oil filter.

https://robinsonheli.com/wp-content/...2/r44_sl45.pdf
"BACKGROUND: Safety wire and safety wire provisions have been deleted from various installations and parts. Deleting safety wire reduces maintenance cost and decreases the potential for safety wire-related FOD. This letter provides guidance for installing parts with or without safety wire provisions.
...
Lycoming engines: Oil filters and D723-1 adapter assemblies with or without safety wire provisions do not require safety wire."
(My oil filter is still safety wired for peace of mind!)

BTW, No need to apologize. Some folks are too quick to criticize (in the name of safety, of course!).
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Last edited by RV8JD : 09-30-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2018, 01:52 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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I will never apologize for promoting safety based on my many years of experience, and the experience of others maintaining and operating these airplanes.

Experience shows that things can happen in just the 50 hour intervals that are typical between oil changes, that can quickly become major safety issues if not detected.

Issues with the exhaust system are a good example.

I agree that the exhaust system on the RV-10 is slightly more inspect-able than on the other RV's but much of it still can not be.
This is only one example of many things that should be looked at regularly.

If people want to take a shortcut doing an oil change that is their choice, but I hope others will consider the trade-off. Removing the bottom cowl doesn't take all that much extra time. I can't see how the small amount of time saved is worth risking the consequences of things that can be missed because they weren't seen.
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2018, 03:24 PM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Location: Dallas/Ft Worth, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
I will never apologize for promoting safety based on my many years of experience, and the experience of others maintaining and operating these airplanes.

Experience shows that things can happen in just the 50 hour intervals that are typical between oil changes, that can quickly become major safety issues if not detected.

Issues with the exhaust system are a good example.

I agree that the exhaust system on the RV-10 is slightly more inspect-able than on the other RV's but much of it still can not be.
This is only one example of many things that should be looked at regularly.

If people want to take a shortcut doing an oil change that is their choice, but I hope others will consider the trade-off. Removing the bottom cowl doesn't take all that much extra time. I can't see how the small amount of time saved is worth risking the consequences of things that can be missed because they weren't seen.
Agree 100%, Amen Brutha!
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2018, 03:36 PM
kkmarshall kkmarshall is offline
 
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Now I remember why I am usually a lurker. Over and out.
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