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Converting the RV-7A to an RV-7

J

JCN247DE

Well Known Member
Has anyone here converted a -7A to a -7? Just curious as to how much of a headache it would be.

I'm getting the tail wheel itch.... Yeah, I know I would have to go through Phase 1 again.... but at least I wouldn't have (get) to build another plane (insert devilish laughter here.... muuuaaahhh hahahahahah)

Jeff - 7A (7?) 90 hrs.
 
I don't wonder at you wanting a tailwheel, but what makes it so you have to go through Phase 1 again? Isn't that just a major modification to the aircraft?
 
Van did it. Contact the company. I am sure they still have a parts list on file someplace. If not, they could probably construct one.

:) CJ
 
I thought what Van's did was to convert their -7 to a -7A. Going one direction as opposed to the other may involve different levels of difficulty.

Since the only difference in performance between the two is that the 7A handles better on the ground, and you can't see the nose wheel (or tail wheel) while flying anyway, maybe you could just close your eyes until you rotate? :)
 
The TD is slightly faster, Vans says 1 or 2 knots, but local wisdom is closer to 3 or 4.

You will need an engine wount for sure!
 
Tricky tail

I think the hardest part will be mounting the tail wheel componants to the rear bulkheads. (I think you'll have to remove the tail tie down bracket) You'll need a new TD engine mount as mentioned along with the actual gear. Remove the main gear weldments. Cover the holes in the fuse floor. And of course reroute the brake lines. Did I miss anything?
 
wingtime said:
I think the hardest part will be mounting the tail wheel componants to the rear bulkheads. (I think you'll have to remove the tail tie down bracket) You'll need a new TD engine mount as mentioned along with the actual gear. Remove the main gear weldments. Cover the holes in the fuse floor. And of course reroute the brake lines. Did I miss anything?
Click to expand...

I think Bruce is right. Getting the tailwheel mount in between the last two bulkheads is going to be the challenge. Everything else should just be a matter of buying a new engine/main gear mount and removing the existing mains, replacing brake lines (as Bruce mentioned), then patching things up.

I suspect you'll have to take the entire aft-most bulkhead off and then put it back on after you insert the mount, presumably with some pulled rivets in some of the bottom holes, because the mount will not fit in between the bulkheads after they are riveted to the skins.

Good luck.
 
alpinelakespilot2000 said:
I suspect you'll have to take the entire aft-most bulkhead off and then put it back on after you insert the mount, presumably with some pulled rivets in some of the bottom holes, because the mount will not fit in between the bulkheads after they are riveted to the skins.
Click to expand...

This is in fact exactly what us taildragging quickbuilders have to do anyway! :) I bet it could be done on a finished airplane without too much more difficulty than when doing it to a QB kit.

mcb
 
Jeff

I'm in the middle of that right now. It's not very hard at all. The hardest part is calling Van's and getting assaulted because you are going from an A to a TW. Send me an email if you have any questions.

Phase 1 for major mods is only 5 hours. Insurance could be the bigger issue.
 
Ok, I'll bite...

N916K said:
Jeff

I'm in the middle of that right now. It's not very hard at all. The hardest part is calling Van's and getting assaulted because you are going from an A to a TW. Send me an email if you have any questions.

Phase 1 for major mods is only 5 hours. Insurance could be the bigger issue.
Click to expand...


Why did Van's assault you for going from an A to a TW?
 
RV9 tailwheels are evil, they must be stoped

apatti said:
Why did Van's assault you for going from an A to a TW?
Click to expand...

There are a few employees, one especially, that has taken it upon himself to rid the world of RV9 tailwheels. This one employee flys tailwheel airplanes but for some reason has decided to champion the nose wheel. I've had them get quite ugly about it. You keep hearing how great the RV9A is and how as a taildragger it's just ruined. You even hear stories that Van wishes he never designed an RV9 tw. That doesn't make much sense, there is very few things different about the tw version of the 9 versus the 7.

Possibly the company line is that the nosewheel is perfectly fine and if someone is changing it's because they think the nosewheel is a weak link, so it must be defended. For some reason they don't want to believe that someone has decided they want to fly a more challenging airplane.

Now if you call about changing your 7A to a 7, maybe they won't say anything, I doubt it though.


I just read the post above, looks like the RV7 guys get the same treatment :mad:
 
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The nosegear IS a weak link. There almost as many accidents on land with the A's as with the TW's that people something.
 
N916K said:
You even hear stories that Van wishes he never designed an RV-9 tw.
Click to expand...


Van's EAA chapter has a pancake breakfast on the first Saturday each month. Van has flown his RV-9 tail dragger to every breakfast I've attended. Considering the choices he has, I have a hard time thinking he would use the tailwheel airplane if he didn't prefer it. He was there in the RV-9 tail dragger again this morning.

Before I found my RV-6, I was considering buying a RV-6A and converting it to conventional gear. If I hadn't found my airplane when I did, I would have done it.

Bob Severns
 
Great responses folks!

I really appreciate your responses and thought points. I am still deep in the process of pros and cons concerning a potential conversion.

My wife looked at me and asked, " are you insane?" when I suggested the conversion. She is really enjoying the flying and doesn't want it to be down long.

I'll keep you posted as I reach a conclusion. If i do it and start whining about it halfway through... just tell me to suck it up!

Jeff
 
Jeff,
I converted my 7A last month. But, my 7A was built with the tail wheel mount inserted from the start, and the engine mount is a "float" mount as it has both the nose gear and main gear mounts included. The plane was built to be convertable from one gear configuration to the other, so the toughest part of the conversion to tail wheel was the rerouting of the brake lines (easy!). I was able to reuse the wheel pants and leg fairings. Just had to install new upper intersection fairings. Actually, the toughest part of the coversion was that I had to drill the gear legs and mount for the leg bolt. Alignment was tedious to make sure we had it right before drilling. Since you will have to buy a new tail wheel engine mount, yours will be pre-drilled. The plane handles beautifully on the ground. Easiest tail dragger I've flown! I left the 7A gear mount in the fuselage and I still have to make covers for the old gear mounts and the slot at the bottom of the cowling. I've had a number of folks look at my "7" and ask why I have steps behind the flaps..... then I tell them to look under the belly and they then realize what I've done.

Jon
Atlanta
 
Converting the RV-7A to a taildragger

After several years of not building on my RV-7A project, I am finally back on it. I am also considering converting the RV-7A to a taildragger.

Does anyone have experience with this conversion?

Don
 
Nothing too big, you can send your engine mount off to be modified, and Van's has the rest of the parts list for converting.
 
7A to 7

Don

After flying my airplane for 3 years I decided to convert it to a taildragger. Feel free to give me a call if you want details.

815-210-5840
 
Don; I've had both and found there is a reason they put the third wheel up front. 2/3rds of my 1500 hours are in a tail wheel. Get some time in a tail wheel before you decide. Unless you have a prop clearance issue or other concerns keep the nose gear. Consistant good landings trumps being one of those that have or will go into the weeds.
 
Check Insurance Premiums First!

When I was deciding between tail and nose draggers, I called several insurance companies to find out what the difference in premiums were. Tail draggers cost about 20% more to insure. :eek: Not huge money, but it is a few more hundred bucks a year
 
Noah said:
When I was deciding between tail and nose draggers, I called several insurance companies to find out what the difference in premiums were. Tail draggers cost about 20% more to insure. :eek: Not huge money, but it is a few more hundred bucks a year
Click to expand...
Noah,

I wonder who you called. When I checked with my insurance company, Falcon, there was very little difference between TW and NW insurance. So little, in fact, it didn't matter.

At the time of the first flight I only had 150 hours TW in a bunch of different planes. Now with 350 hours TW, I really wonder what the big deal is.
 
agough277 said:
Don; I've had both and found there is a reason they put the third wheel up front. 2/3rds of my 1500 hours are in a tail wheel. Get some time in a tail wheel before you decide. Unless you have a prop clearance issue or other concerns keep the nose gear. Consistant good landings trumps being one of those that have or will go into the weeds.
Click to expand...

A good friend of mine (with a nose dragger), kept telling an aquaintence of ours, that someday he eventually would.... (the weeds)

Of course, since the aquaintence owned and had been flying two different tail wheel planes, it just wasn't in the cards..........so he thought.

A few weeks ago, he lost it in a ground loop. Collapsed the gear, and got a prop strike on that nice six cylinder Lycoming and three bladed prop. :eek:

____________________________________

My uncle, who had spent many years in the Air Force following WWII, convinced me to go nose wheel for an RV. He knew well, that there were many reasons, that today's modern aircraft have placed the nosewheel forward.

Besides, tailwheel RV's look like miniture R/C planes. Just look up the pic's to see! :D

IMO, my 6A is fun to land. The stick is always full back before the nosewheel ever drops. And it stays that way until stopped.

But I like tailwheelers too. Especially Aviat Husky's, Cubs, Cub Classics.................

These planes have no wheel pants, and large diameter tires that suit a special purpose. RV's just are not that good for rough fields......period!

And you can't beat the looks of the tail wheel North American P-51 Mustang. It's my favorite aircraft of all time. Especially when the wheels are retracted! :D

L.Adamson ---- RV6A
 
Converting 7A to 7

Hi All, just wanted to know what it entails making the change to a tailey on a QB kit, that work has been already done regarding the fitting of the 7A fittings on fus.
thanks in advance
 
Goeie more, meneer....

...basically, remove the main gear attach fittings and the motor mount. Buy a TD motor mount and the gear legs. Rivet covers over the old landing gear holes in the sides of the fuselage.

Van has the parts to rivet in the tail to accomodate the tailspring,

Best,
 
Converting RV-7A to RV-7, how difficult?

Well....here I am building a 7A and watching all the posts regarding the potential issues of the nose gear. I am a low-time pilot living in a place famous for crosswinds and high DA. My inexperience has lead me to the idea of a nosedragger being the better option.

I don't currently have any experience using grass strips. Someday...that may be a nice option.

How reasonable would it be to convert fron the -A to a taildragger later when I'm better prepared for it and may increase my flying envelope?

Thanks,
 
go fly with someone like Mike Seager and fly them both. he'll give you the info you need to make a choice for yourself
 
Sean,

Try doing a search, there are a number of threads on the topic. 7's and 9's are the same with regard to the TW vs NW so look up both.
 
SeanB said:
Well....here I am building a 7A.

How reasonable would it be to convert fron the -A to a taildragger later when I'm better prepared for it and may increase my flying envelope?

Thanks,
Click to expand...

During your build, if you build in the required extra parts for the tail wheel assy, you can later just change the motor mount, add the legs and remove the 7A legs. The mains weldment for the A would be a pain to remove. But you don't have to do that till your ready.
 
What makes you think you aren't ready to start flying a taildragger now? There are pilots with licenses who have never flown a trike!! I can never figure out this big misconception.

You would be better off to find someone to fly you in a taildragger for a few hours now and if you feel comfortable build the taildragger now. There has to be even schools near you that teach with taildraggers. Go get a few hours. I guarentee you will love learning the art.

After you build the plane and have all the wheel pants finished and everything all pretty you will never want to change it back to a taildragger. It is possible, however a lot more work is involved in doing that, than going now, and throughout the build of your project for some tailwheel flight time. Just an idea.
 
First off, this forum does seem to generate a fair amount of paranoia regarding nose wheels. :rolleyes: I've been around RV's for 16 years, and it isn't as though having a nosewheel is going to be an automatic problem. There are thousands of Van's nosewheel equipped aircraft that are flying, and landing just fine.

As to your aircraft, how far along is it? If you havn't mounted the engine, and installed the landing gear, then switch now. Otherwise, it's a somewhat costly and time consuming pain. Van's actually changed their 7 taildragger to an A model.

I have a 6A, yet I do like tail wheel airplanes. But I'd much prefer an Aviat Husky, Cub clone, or perhaps a P-51D Mustang. Rockets & F1's look speedy and mean, and the "8" model can some what resemble a WWII fighter. Those, need to be TD's. :)

So.............if you're not that far along then convert now. They claim that Van's TD's are still easy to land, but an A model will still do a bit better in cross winds. The A is still better for seeing over the front. Just make sure you install a C/S prop for those Colorado mountains !!! :D

L.Adamson --- RV6A
 
The first departure between the two is in the tail cone. Build in the tail dragger's spring anchor. You'll have to cobble up your own tail tie down do-dad if you persist with the ND.

Then, it's the engine mount. (BTW, I recommend buying the finish kit, at least the engine mount, with the fuse kit. Building and modifying the firewall a/r is soooo much easier with the engine mount handy.) In the fuse, the ND's clutter of main gear leg support is replaced by a plate and gusset on either side for the TD. You could probably leave the jungle-gym in place for the TD conversion, but the mess was the original deal killer when I was considering T vs. N dragger. Externally - leg fairings are different and wheel fairings are customized. Delete the step for a TD.

The TD is so easy to park. That's a point usually overlooked in the T vs. N wars. Even pushing it into the hangar is easier with the TD; shoving on a tow (really a push) bar attached to the nose wheel is like pushing a shopping cart backwards - it wants to pivot around.

John Siebold
 
conversion so easy a cave man could do it

I did mine after all the metal work was done and engine was hung,but before any wiring and systems ahead of the fire wall. Took me and Tom Martin about a day and a half to complete and costs of parts was about 1200.00
I did not have any tailwheel time at that point and i am so glad i switched.
 
converted

Sean
Been there and done that for basiclly the same reasons you stated. I was about 150 hours when I started to fly my 7A. Converted it after 2/5 years of flying. The transition to a td was easy. The conversion took about 2 weeks working mostly on the weekends. The hardest part was the cowl. My new engine mount moved the engine forward about 3/4" so I had to do some fiberglass work and repaint the cowl. If I was doing it again I would have just built it as a td right from the start.
 
Time for reality check

This is an interesting post because is serves to illustrate a general problem with the internet. I am not criticizing this form, it's a wonderful source of information, I check in more than one a day and I contribute $$$. However, occasionally it may lead new builders astray. Posts like we've seen recently create something akin to "mass hysteria". The uninitiated (sometimes also the initiated) come away with the idea that the A model is flip waiting to happen. To the best of my knowledge, no such data exists. My suspicion is that a nose wheel RV and tail wheel RV are equally likely to be involved in a runway incident and it's probably pilot technique more than a design flaw.

I live in Colorado and I think your initial reasoning is correct. If you truly believe that you will operate off grass, then convert. But if you are like me, you won't ever consider taking your brand new airplane on the clump grass runways typically found around Colorado and the South West US.

regards,
Brad
 
If you are curious about what is would cost to do the conversion, just call Van's.

There are two part #'s to order that would get you basically what you want. I got these parts numbers over the phone so they may not be exact in terms of spaces and dashes, but this should get you there.

For most -7's it would be:

7 DYNA-1 O-360 KIT: $1600 <- Engine mount and new main gears
7 FUSE UNIQUE: $630 <- Tailwheel assembly, unique -7 fuse parts, etc.

Gus also mentioned it would be best to wait and see with the fairings. The -7 gear legs are longer than the -7A legs so the -7A fairings would probably be too short. The wheelpants should work but they may need to be re-mounted since the geometry is slightly different. Of course you would definitely need new upper-intersection fairings.
 
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I actually started a thread recently about 7A's on a grass strip. My RV will live on a grass strip and the strip is in pretty good shape. The comments about internet hysteria is probably accurate, but I wanted opinion and I got them. I think everyone agrees the front gear is not the most robust in the world or this discussion would never come up. I wanted to know which is preferred and based on popular opionion the taildragger is preferred on grass strips. To add to the fun, my runway is 09/27 in the Houston area with the predominate winds out of the southeast/northwest. I don't have any taildragger time, but I am going to go get some in a Swift that my Dad owns. I really don't want to be changing after the build. Leaning towards a taildragger at this point. Besides they look cooler in my opinion.
 
smart move

I have a friend that bought an RV6 with only C-172 time about 1.5 yr ago. He has mastered the Basic Taildragger technique in about 3 months and he is comfortable flying it. As I understand the RV taildraggers are one of the "Easiest" to master (I stand to be corrected...since I am an "A" flyer). Your Insurance though will be high or non existent for the first year untill you prove that you got it. Good luck.
 
I built a ND and wish I had built a TD.

How far along are you? I built a ND and wish I had built a TD. I do love many things about the ND but... I also had only about 50 hours when I started building and have since changed my mind about what I like best. You can do so too, but do it before you get too far along in the process. You can argue the mertis of each forever and never hope to win. What I will say is that the TD seems more popular and you get no respect flying formation with a ND. These guys can't seem to figure out how to fly close trail with no tail wheel to follow :rolleyes: That is a fact.

I have not change my plane to a TD because it is too much work. Let me state that another way. I have other things that I would prefer to be doing, like flying or building another plane. :eek:

Oh yea and the next one will have smoke and inverted oil. I may put smoke on this one anyway.

If you want do discuss the merits of both I can give some real insight. I fly both but own a ND. I have a bunch of the quick come backs for a nose wheel so don't get me going.
 
don't let yourself push by the predominant "real pilot" type arguments on this site... fortunately, these kinds of myths will sooner or later disappear (if we can keep the younger generation from copying that kind of thinking)
about the only argument against the nosewheel that has merits is the one regarding grass runways.
and there mainly because of the "known unknowns" like potholes and such...

we only have about 6hrs and 14 landings on our 7A and feel very much at home already (transitioned on a 6a). the nosewheel definitely is a sissy wheel and needs to be treated like glass... also, as others have noted, there is a fragile phase between where the elevator loses authority and when you are at a safe speed.
would i prefer that van's had designed it tougher? sure i would. do i feel unsafe? not at all. we will just stay off grass runways. would i build a taildragger in retrospect? nope.
and contrary to popular opinion, IMHO the nosedragger looks way cooler, especially on the 6a's and 7a's. with the 8/8A's it's about equal.

kind regards,
bernie
 
I guess if nothing else this thread has made me think about what mine would look like the other way around.

Let's see what the GIMP says about it.

622JP-ND.jpeg


Couldn't quite get the gear leg geometry perfect...
622JP-TW.jpeg


hmm......
 
I would suggest to the OP that he start doing some tailwheel time while he's building. It'll make him a better pilot no matter what he chooses at the end of the day, nosewheel or tailwheel. And if he does choose to switch, he'll have a stack of tailwheel time under his belt, which will go a long way to making sure he has insurance for the first flights.

For reference, I had about 100 hours nosewheel, 200 hours tailwheel, when I bought my RV-6. Only about 10 of those hours were in an RV, and only about 5 of them tailwheel (4 were a checkout in a dual-equipped RV-6 with an instructor). My insurance company had no problems with those numbers.
 
Jamie said:
I guess if nothing else this thread has made me think about what mine would look like the other way around.

Let's see what the GIMP says about it.

622JP-ND.jpeg


Couldn't quite get the gear leg geometry perfect...
622JP-TW.jpeg


hmm......
Click to expand...

Now make it a retractable........and you'll have it just right...
 
Converting RV-7A to taildrager, Fuselage still in box

I am looking at buying a unopened RV7A kit, but haven`t decided against the taildragger yet. I don`t want to start that discussion here, I just have to take some taildragger classes and see how I like it, I merely want to know if anyone could tell me the following:
If the 7A fuselage box is unopened, how many parts am I missing to build a tailwheel instead, will it be a pain and expensive to get the parts, so much that buying the used kit isn`t worth it, and rather look for a 7?

Thanks
Christian
 
call Vans and ask

It depends on what the price is for the kit you are looking at and the cost of the products you will need to change out. The best thing you can do is call Vans and ask to speak to the tech guys. They can quickly tell you what parts will need to be changed out and what the costs for those would be. Then compare thse costs to what you think you will be able to save with the 7A kit.

As far as the work needed, since the fuselage has not been started it should not be difficult at all to change to a tail wheel. The plans actually give you the drawings for both so that would also be a place where you can see what is needed to change from one to the other.

Good luck.
 
I just did the opposite (switched from 7 to 7A). I have still not ordered the parts needed, but, if you have the fuselage part list on hand, there is a sub-kit named "7A Fuse unique". These are the parts that are different from the 7. Ask Van's the "7 fuse unique" sub-kit and you are done.
 
I just went through the process

As I was getting ready to rivet the fuselage together I changed my mind. I had gone back and forth on TD versus NW. I had orginally purchased the NW slow build fuselage.

I talked to Vans and they were very supportive. They gave me a list of parts to send back; like the landing gear legs and told me what parts I would need to order, such as the TW parts. It is basically a sub-kit for the TW.

I will have to redo my tail end of the fuselage for the TW, but it won't be difficult. I am glad I made the final decision now before riveting the fuselage together. With shipping and the credit for the returns I think I spent around $200.00 for the change over.

Make sure you review their return policy, but if the kit is new it should not be a problem.
 
don't forget about the insurance consideration....

I am being told that premiums for tail draggers is higher to begin with. That said, it goes up significantly for those pilots with low tail dragger time. This may be a 'non-concern' for some but it is something to be considered when looking at he overall cost. I haven't decided yet. I will share what I find out when I call for insurance estimates.

Just some thoughts.


E.
 
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