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AEROBATICS IMPRESSIONS RV-7

Which maneuvers by frequent execution can have bad effects on RV7's airframe

  • Total voters
    23
  • Poll closed .
A

ALMARTON

Well Known Member
Please respond the poll above and add your comments , experience, substantiated information

My impressions are:

I am keen to know any information from experience of anyone that has done flat spins on RV7A. How many turns where done, how easy and how long (turns) does it take to recover since commanded. If was made solo or with 2 persons on board.

I so far have done in mine (solo and with 2 persons) the following maneuvers:

- 3 turn erect spin
- snaps (at 90kts or less)
- stall turns / hammerheads
- loopings
- immelmans

Never exceeded 5G on it! By the way 4G (in my experience) is more than enough for all those.

Thanks in advance for sharing your experience.

I'm bit concerned if the snaps will have any affect on the 7 life... thats why I procure to execute it a very low speeds.

Concerned also , since never did it. To know about flat spin capability and or its effects on propeller and engine shaft (any spin effect on those really).

Gonna post some links for flat spin nicely executed on a 7 taildragger in the next posts
 
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Spins are one of the few maneuvers that will not over G or overspeed an airplane.
The recovery or hitting the ground can damage a plane from a spin that is allowed to spin, but the spin itself is not going to break anything.

Snap roll (up to 90kts) Snaps are violent and if done fast can damage planes.... Decathlons for example are certified to snap, but snapping them often breaks the nose ribs or causes the tank to leak. Snapping a Pitts faster than they should be done has been shown to split the anti drag blocks

Tail slides If you do not hold the stick well and allow the controls to snap full deflection can damage any plane.

Avalanche... This is a just a snap on a loop.

Split S.... Can cause an over speed or over G situation if done wrong.

So, IMO, the only maneuver you listed that if done correctly *might* cause damage is snap rolls.
 
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ssmdive said:
Tail slides If you do not hold the stick well and allow the controls to snap full deflection can damage any plane.
Click to expand...

RV control surfaces are not built near as solidly as they are on purpose built aerobatic aircraft so stick properly held or not, they might still get damaged.
That is why we at Van's recommend against them.

The official recommendation is for positive G maneuvers only (tail slide is not a positive G maneuver).
 
I'm not sure a poll is the proper place to form an opinion concerning the advisability of performing various aerobatic maneuvers. In an effort to encourage more RV pilots to participate in IAC aerobatic competition I worked with Van for several months and many drafts to get the word out from THE MAN himself. The article was published in the August issue of Sport Aviation and a link is provided here.

http://sportaviation.epubxp.com/i/703347-aug-2016/78?m4

To summarize a few points brought up in the previous posts which are explained in full in the above article:
1. Van does not rule out snap rolls "in the hand of more experienced pilots" which are required at the Intermediate level of IAC competition.
2. According to Van, intentional tail slides are not recommended.
3. Van recommends spins be limited to two turns or less for the RV-6/7 and 14.

I have been doing snap rolls for some time and find that properly done they do not put any undue stress on the airframe. I DO NOT slam any of the controls against the control stops and I never do snaps near maneuvering speed (122 knots in my RV-8). I have found that 100 knots is the sweet spot for snaps and brisk application of elevator and rudder at the appropriate times is more important that getting full travel of either control. I never see more than 4 Gs during snaps.

I DO NOT do tail slides, period.

You will never see more that one and a half turn spin in IAC competition. Spins in all RVs tend to accelerate after two or more spins if full pro-spin controls are maintained. This is disconcerting to inexperienced pilots (frightening for some!) but recovery is quite effective with normal spin recovery technique.

As always, you are advised to get proper training in unusual attitude recovery before attempting aerobatics for the first time and always practice at an altitude that will allow you to recover from a botched maneuver and then from a botched recovery. Have fun!
 
ssmdive said:
Spins are one of the few maneuvers that will not over G or overspeed an airplane.
The recovery or hitting the ground can damage a plane from a spin that is allowed to spin, but the spin itself is not going to break anything.

Snap roll (up to 90kts) Snaps are violent and if done fast can damage planes.... Decathlons for example are certified to snap, but snapping them often breaks the nose ribs or causes the tank to leak. Snapping a Pitts faster than they should be done has been shown to split the anti drag blocks

Tail slides If you do not hold the stick well and allow the controls to snap full deflection can damage any plane.

Avalanche... This is a just a snap on a loop.

Split S.... Can cause an over speed or over G situation if done wrong.

So, IMO, the only maneuver you listed that if done correctly *might* cause damage is snap rolls.
Click to expand...

Many thanks, I DO AGREE WITH ALL YOUR POINTS! :D

By the way , have you done or do any of those in a 7?
 
ronschreck said:
I'm not sure a poll is the proper place to form an opinion concerning the advisability of performing various aerobatic maneuvers. In an effort to encourage more RV pilots to participate in IAC aerobatic competition I worked with Van for several months and many drafts to get the word out from THE MAN himself. The article was published in the August issue of Sport Aviation and a link is provided here.

http://sportaviation.epubxp.com/i/703347-aug-2016/78?m4

To summarize a few points brought up in the previous posts which are explained in full in the above article:
1. Van does not rule out snap rolls "in the hand of more experienced pilots" which are required at the Intermediate level of IAC competition.
2. According to Van, intentional tail slides are not recommended.
3. Van recommends spins be limited to two turns or less for the RV-6/7 and 14.

I have been doing snap rolls for some time and find that properly done they do not put any undue stress on the airframe. I DO NOT slam any of the controls against the control stops and I never do snaps near maneuvering speed (122 knots in my RV-8). I have found that 100 knots is the sweet spot for snaps and brisk application of elevator and rudder at the appropriate times is more important that getting full travel of either control. I never see more than 4 Gs during snaps.

I DO NOT do tail slides, period.

You will never see more that one and a half turn spin in IAC competition. Spins in all RVs tend to accelerate after two or more spins if full pro-spin controls are maintained. This is disconcerting to inexperienced pilots (frightening for some!) but recovery is quite effective with normal spin recovery technique.

As always, you are advised to get proper training in unusual attitude recovery before attempting aerobatics for the first time and always practice at an altitude that will allow you to recover from a botched maneuver and then from a botched recovery. Have fun!
Click to expand...

Ron Schreck nice points. I do not intend to do intentional tail slides also. Do agree with ya. Many many thanks for the article you linked! :cool:
 
botched hammer and tail slide

When you?re doing hammerheads, it?s more likely you can get into a tail slide. For me it happens when dragging the right wing, which usually occurs when rolling left on the up line, and you run out of effective left rudder to make it pivot. Here?s a youtube video of this on the third hammer: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLed3Zg40mI
Before I did these kinds of maneuvers I received instructions in an Extra on tail slides, botched hammers, and inverted spins. The instructor said on a tail slide to hold the controls firmly, power off, and let the controls (elevator mainly) go in the direction it wants to go but holding firmly. I?ve had several instances where I ran out of speed with the nose towards the vertical and it stalls/slides.:eek: The main thing I try to do is get it off the vertical line before this happens, which for me is most effective with elevator. Eric can provide better info on this.

Be careful and have fun,
Bill McLean
RV-4 slider
Lower Alabama
 
Bill, assuming the pilot recognizes a potential tail slide developing (not necessarily obvious, depending on experience), I would recommend against pulling power to idle and waiting for something to happen. You can hit the jackpot by accident and really get a long slide and violent reversal, with high loads on the tail surfaces doing that. A better technique would be to apply full power, full left rudder, full aft stick, and wait for the nose to get pointed back toward the ground. It's very hard to get much of a slide with full power and two fully deflected tail surfaces. It takes some technique and practice to get a decent slide at full power even when you're trying (torque roll). Deflecting the tail surfaces has a secondary benefit of helping prevent the controls from accidentally banging against the stops if you're not holding them tight enough when the airplane reverses. On the other hand, if you really luck out, you can get a fairly long slide at idle power even if with the controls deflected. The propwash under full power will not only limit your reverse airspeed, but will get the airplane pivoted around before it starts sliding very quickly.
 
tail slide

Eric, Thanks for clarifying, and educating us. I guess I forgot that power off AFTER working the nose off the vertical, where my elevator was much more affective than my rudder in getting the nose down.
Bill
RV-4 slider
 
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