Ipad mini - wifi only or 4g?

I'm in the early research stages to use an Ipad in the -9A. I'm leaning toward the Ipad mini with Foreflight. I've used the Foreflight app on an Ipad 2 and liked it.
Q1 - I know the 4g Ipads have the internal gps chip but the FAQs on Sportys site recommends an external GPS unit (Dual or Bad elf) be used in all Ipads to insure no loss of signal. My friend has the Anywheremap Freedom app on his 4g mini without an add-on gps and never lost reception. Discuss.
Q2 - Are there benefits of the 4g Ipad over the wifi only devices while in flight? On the ground? I'm a T-mobile subscriber so I wouldn't activate any cell data provider plans. Pros and cons?

Thanks all.

I had thought about going the same route - Getting an IPad Mini WIFI, and using a bad elf or external GPS.

I've heard mixed reviews about the GPS coverage with strait 4g coverage. Some never lose signal, some seems innacurate.

I'd also get a GPS unit that plugs in and uses the IPad power supply... One less device to worry if its charged or not.

I have n iPad 4 and an iPhone 4S. Both work well in my C172. I'd rather have the internal GPS than another unit I need to carry around and remember to keep charged. My original iPad lost satellite lock a couple of times, but the current generation has been rock solid.

The only external GPS that could be powered by the iPad is the original Bad Elf (not the current wireless one). That one connects to the 30 pin connector on the older iPads. You'd need a special converter for the mini or new iPad with Retina Display (iPad 4). I don't think it is very convenient.

I use my iPad for car navigation too. I travel a lot and use rental cars. Many years ago I had a bluetooth phone with an external GPS. While I liked it at the time, I would not want to deal with a GPS puck again. Just not worth the hassle of keeping track of it and making sure that it is charged for infrequent use. I have never read of any significant difference in performance between the various external GPS units on the market right now. You can't go worng with any of them. I happen to know people at Dual, so I'd probably get one of those if I went that way. Actually, I'm considering a Sagetech Clarity ADS-B unit with WAAS GPS and AHRS. It is much more expensive than an external GPS, but also provides much more functionality.

Another consideration is whether you will dedicate the iPad to the plane and navigation, or whether you will end up using it for other things. I actually use mine much more outside the plane, having almost replaced my laptop for most e-mail and web browsing. I also don't buy printed books or magazine subscriptions anymore. For that reason, I went with the full size iPad. I'm happy with that decision, but I was really tempted by the smaller size and lighter weight of the mini. It was almost a coin toss which one to get.

I really like having the LTE modem, which is faster than my broadband internet connection. I've clocked it at 26 Mbps up and down speeds. It doesn't matter that you are with Verizon for your phone. You can activate a data plan on AT&T or Verizon just for your iPad. You can turn the plan on and off from month to month, so you can use it only when you need it. I am not always close to a WiFi hot spot. My home airport has very poor WiFi. AT&T's LTE has been very good for me.

Steve said:

I'm in the early research stages to use an Ipad in the -9A. I'm leaning toward the Ipad mini with Foreflight.

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I just ordered an Ipad mini for the same primary purposes--mostly as a digital flight bag plus the ability to check weather easily whenever wifi is available. Figured an external GPS was not too much of a hassle if I want to use it as a moving map. The alternative would have been one of the 4g plans, but I'm too attached to my $8.00/month pay-as-you-go cell phone to convert to an expensive cell plan. Too much avgas potential lost!

emuyshondt said:

You can activate a data plan on AT&T or Verizon just for your iPad. You can turn the plan on and off from month to month, so you can use it only when you need it.

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What's the minimum this might cost per month (assuming I had no phone numbers attached to it)?

Get the 4G

It's something like $15 a month for AT&T and $20 a month for Verizon for 4g. I chose the Verizon plan for my Mini because you get a lot more data for just a little more money.

I don't turn my 4g on much. I usually get what I need via wifi.

I would, and did, spent the bucks for the 4g version of the Mini. There are so many non-aviation uses for it. The built in GPS works very well. It's way better than my iPad I.

Get the 4g version. You won't regret it.

Just in case this isn't clear to everyone: you do NOT need a data plan for your iPad to use the GPS. My iPad 3 has never had a sim and in it, but has worked perfectly from sea level to 40000' (on a US Airways flight... Not in the RV!).

my ipad mini with internal gps even works in the house. now that is great reception. i move it from 2 aircraft and the car, i like the on board gps feature. the less 'stuff' i need the better.

mini 4G

Bought a mini when they first arrived without 4G and used a BadElf... not happy with the performance (slow and awkward... need an adapter, very fragile looking). Sold my mini and BadElf and bought one with 4G, very happy with this setup.
It locks on very quickly, stays connected (GPS), and have not seen the need for an external GPS.
I use it with Skychartspro... very nice little app ($20) and get monthly updates free.
When in the States I activate my Verizon account and for $20 per month, I have 1G of data.
All and all, couldn't be happier with this setup.

If you intend to get a Stratus unit for a mere $800 to get in-flight weather and other goodies, then you don't need the iPad built-in GPS. The Stratus has WAAS built in.

I gues you could look at the $100 or so iPad cost difference as a discount on the Stratus...

IF you are going with a bad elf get the bad elf pro, it is bluetooth. I just hang it from the canopy handle.

I like the bad elf because I can use it for data logging other things without having to take the ipad . I just turn on the bad elf data logger and throw it in the jet ski and can log where I ride when I get home. same for a bike ride or run.

bob burns

RV-4 N82RB

alpinelakespilot2000 said:

The alternative would have been one of the 4g plans, but I'm too attached to my $8.00/month pay-as-you-go cell phone to convert to an expensive cell plan.

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Getting a cellular iPad has no effect on your cell phone plan. It is totally independent. Even if you want to activate a data plan on the iPad, it is not linked to whatever carrier or plan you use for your phone.

As others have said, you don't even need to activate ANY cellular plan just because you get a cellular iPad. I got my initial iPad strictly for the GPS function. I didn't activate a data plan for several months.

I then decided to try out the cellular connection. I haven't turned it off since I did. I really like having the internet available wherever I am. I use my iPad for much more than flying, so the internet connection gets used a lot.

If I were going to get a tablet to leave in the plane and not use it for anything else, I might consider a WiFi only model that I'd update with new charts at home once a month or so. If you are going to get an ADS-B box for weather anyway, you have an external GPS, and no need for the internal one. However, if all you want is a moving map, I find the internal GPS much more convenient that any external puck and will gladly pay the extra $40 to not have another device to charge and carry around, with attendant charger and cables.

[$40 = $139 extra for cellular iPad vs. WiFi only - $99 for external GPS-only device (Bad Elf, Dual, etc.)]

After 6 months with the cell option, I activated it this week to have it for a flight from Dallas to St Louis with friend in his RV-7. The reason being having access to weather before take off wher there was no wifi. It was worth it as the forecast was totally worthless.

The cost - $36 activation plus $14.95 a month when needed.

Beyond that, the mini was totally cool in that I knew the SWA crew was cruising @ 41000' with a ground speed of 485 knots flying from STL - DAL.

GDL39 also

As mentioned earlier in the thread, the ADS-B systems such as stratus and garmin GDL 39 all work as a GPS for the iOS devices and connect automatically via bluetooth so if you have one of those you do not need the internal GPS. IF you want to use the iPad for other GPS related uses then the internal capability probably makes sense.

Free 200MB data via T-Mobile!

http://www.tmonews.com/2013/10/t-mobile-announces-uncarrier-phase-3-part-ii-tablets-tablets-and-more-tablets/

Reviving this thread -- The above info makes me rethink my approach to wifi-only vs 4G/LTE iPads. Getting a free 200mb per month sounds perfect for our typical use flying (for sporadic weather updates, flight plan filing, etc.), and not having to fiddle with a separate GPS antenna won't hurt either.

In the past I was happy to save $130 with each iPad purchase and bought a BT GPS antenna once that worked good enough over the years. However, free data for the life of the device will have me changing my ways (whenever I get CFO permission for an upgrade). Plus the data plans beyond the free level seem reasonable.

Figured this might be helpful for others looking at iPad options in the coming months.

vfr800 said:

http://www.tmonews.com/2013/10/t-mobile-announces-uncarrier-phase-3-part-ii-tablets-tablets-and-more-tablets/

Reviving this thread -- The above info makes me rethink my approach to wifi-only vs 4G/LTE iPads. Getting a free 200mb per month sounds perfect for our typical use flying (for sporadic weather updates, flight plan filing, etc.), and not having to fiddle with a separate GPS antenna won't hurt either.

In the past I was happy to save $130 with each iPad purchase and bought a BT GPS antenna once that worked good enough over the years. However, free data for the life of the device will have me changing my ways (whenever I get CFO permission for an upgrade). Plus the data plans beyond the free level seem reasonable.

Figured this might be helpful for others looking at iPad options in the coming months.

Click to expand...

Wow, this is a great news and thanks for sharing it. We are just about to buy a new IPAD air, waiting for it to start shipping and had been debating to get it with the 4G or just buy an external GPS. I think this makes my decision making a bit easier.

Dont forget the hotspot approach

Did not realize until recently when I was at the badlands fly-in that when a wifi ipad is hooked to the iphone via the hotspot the iphone gps data is passed to the ipad. Net result is that foreflight etc worked fine. So now I get the benefits of the 4G ipad on the ground and the ipad connects to the GDL39 in the air with a straight wifi ipad.

uk_figs said:

Did not realize until recently when I was at the badlands fly-in that when a wifi ipad is hooked to the iphone via the hotspot the iphone gps data is passed to the ipad. Net result is that foreflight etc worked fine. So now I get the benefits of the 4G ipad on the ground and the ipad connects to the GDL39 in the air with a straight wifi ipad.

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Does foreflight work with GDL39? My understanding was that Stratus is the only ADS-B that works with foreflight

I too have been waiting for the new iPads and thought I had made the decision on iPad vs iPad mini. My question as a budget minded person, is can I get by with a 16G vs. 32G?

Flying B said:

I too have been waiting for the new iPads and thought I had made the decision on iPad vs iPad mini. My question as a budget minded person, is can I get by with a 16G vs. 32G?

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16G is plenty space if it is being used mainly for avaition. With my last IPAD, I had all the maps for the US downloaded and still had plenty of space for some music, etc.

wifi IPad

I got the cheapest, wifi only Ipad with 16gb of memory. Its gets waas gps from skyradar d2, in addition to weather and traffic. Taxi up to most FBO's and you can get wifi without getting out of plane. No monthly charge. Granted the skyradar is an investment, but it works for me.

I had garmin, foreflight, and wingx installed on my Iphone. I had to drop down to 3500 to 5000 or so feet to get a refresh on the weather. At 8500ft, i never could get reception. Maybe an external antenna would have solved the problem. With skyradar, i can get weather at any altitude, and sometimes traffic.

Thanks for the info folks!

This thread is serving me well in my time of need. I appreciate the OP and everyone's input. Please don't anyone hold back with your thoughts & experiences.

Cheers,

grubbat said:

I got the cheapest, wifi only Ipad with 16gb of memory. Its gets waas gps from skyradar d2, in addition to weather and traffic. Taxi up to most FBO's and you can get wifi without getting out of plane. No monthly charge. Granted the skyradar is an investment, but it works for me.

I had garmin, foreflight, and wingx installed on my Iphone. I had to drop down to 3500 to 5000 or so feet to get a refresh on the weather. At 8500ft, i never could get reception. Maybe an external antenna would have solved the problem. With skyradar, i can get weather at any altitude, and sometimes traffic.

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Which avaiation app are you using with your skyradar 2? I am wondering if it is compatiable with Foreflight?

skyradar app

I'm currently using WingX with skyradar. Skyradar also has an app but Wingx seems to have a lot for features for the $$. I liked both Garmin and Foreflight but Garmin is not compatible and I'm not sure about Foreflight. I get just the basic Wingx subscription because I am only using it for weather and traffic and backup navigation. It has a lot more features than the others but those things don't currently interest me.

New Ipad mini with the Retina display was announced that its debut will be in late November according to Apple. I wouldn't be surprised if Black Friday weekend is announced.

Ron in Oregon

GDL39 and Foreflight

GDL39 only provides the GPS input to Foreflight but not the ADSB/Traffic, I have the Garmin App also which get the ADSB from the 39.