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  #1  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:47 AM
redhawk redhawk is offline
 
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Default ADSB thoughts

I have a Lynx NGT9000 and I have to say it has saved me a few near misses (or worse !) since installed. I am concerned that our constant monitoring with ADSB-out will place those of us who regularly fly “in the backcountry” and not “over it” can place us in legal jeopardy if we fly over persons on the ground who are disturbed by airplane noise and perceive us as a “low flying aircraft”, violating the 500’ rule near a “person” in a “sparsely populated area”. (FAR 91.119) Years ago a pilot at Redtail Aviation in Moab told me about how often hikers on the ground are reporting their pilots for “low flying”. With the advent of Apps that can identify overhead aircraft by anyone on the ground with a smart phone, it brings up the issue of privacy.
I understand the FAA is coming out with a website to opt to de-identify your aircraft with a ADSB system, but this will be available only to 1090 ES systems (such as the Lynx, but not a UAS system such as the wingtip system). I’m not certain if this will only be for aircraft used in air commerce, or all aircraft including general aviation.
Just thought Id post this topic to hear differing points of view and to raise a few hairs about the constant chipping away at our privacy... That being said, ADSB-out does make our airspace safer...
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  #2  
Old 11-15-2019, 08:57 AM
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RWoodard RWoodard is offline
 
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I have similar feelings.

I'm a big advocate of "look out the darned windows," but I, too, feel better with the belt and suspenders aspect of ADSB for traffic spotting.

As you say, I'm concerned that every Tom, Dick, and Harry will start reporting what they believe to be violations and we'll all be doing an FAA carpet dance to prove our innocence. I'm almost hoping that reporting by the general public will become so common/prolific that the FAA will have to develop a policy that essentially says they're going to ignore it unless it comes from some more formal source.

Of course this brings up the potential for creating an automated official source similar to what IFR traffic in controlled airspace deal with. I'd like to think that I'm a pretty law-abiding person, but I've already experienced a situation where someone thought a 1/2 mile and 500' separation in a VFR/uncontrolled environment was close enough to cause a collision.

I think the issue is real and I'm hoping the dues I pay to the various alphabet organizations will be used to help our leaders come to a reasonable solution.
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  #3  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:41 AM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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I believe ADS-B is just another nail in coffin of GA. Since the feds have never been pro GA, and even worse to experimental, how long is it going to be when the feds start mailing violation letters and fines from ADS-B tracking. Next, pay to play. All computer generated, a bill tagged to your registration. All the infrastructure is there and ready to go. It's bad enough that the cost to install even the cheapest ADS-B systems are more than some small aircraft are worth, it pushes these pilots away from everywhere but uncontrolled airspace. This just grounds more and more GA planes. The feds already have radar, S-mode and TCAS for controlled airspace.. The only difference is ADS-B transmits everything about YOU. Where you departed, where you landed, exact speed during the entire flight, exact ALT, diversions, tail number, owner... Every flight is recorded and stored. I will shut off ADS-B out everywhere but "rule" space. This is red light camera's in the sky.
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  #4  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:48 AM
SPX SPX is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
I believe ADS-B is just another nail in coffin of GA. Since the feds have never been pro GA, and even worse to experimental, how long is it going to be when the feds start mailing violation letters and fines from ADS-B tracking. Next, pay to play. All computer generated, a bill tagged to your registration. All the infrastructure is there and ready to go. It's bad enough that the cost to install even the cheapest ADS-B systems are more than some small aircraft are worth, it pushes these pilots away from everywhere but uncontrolled airspace. This just grounds more and more GA planes. The feds already have radar, S-mode and TCAS for controlled airspace.. The only difference is ADS-B transmits everything about YOU. Where you departed, where you landed, exact speed during the entire flight, exact ALT, diversions, tail number, owner... Every flight is recorded and stored. I will shut off ADS-B out everywhere but "rule" space. This is red light camera's in the sky.
In fairness, ADS-B does not transmit where are you departed, where are you landed, or the owner. Granted, it can be determined by somebody wishing for that information, but it certainly is not broadcasted.

I can’t say that I am a fan of shutting off your a ADS-B. In remote areas, I have picked up lots of low altitude traffic that I otherwise would not have seen without it.
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  #5  
Old 11-15-2019, 09:52 AM
redhawk redhawk is offline
 
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Default ADSB

I have already heard of an instance where a pilot shut off his ADSB once outside transponder required airspace, and subsequently got a letter from our wonderful friends at the FAA. (So once you turn it on don’t turn it off in flight !)

On another note to your “pay to play” remark, I was backcountry camping with my Cessna a few weeks ago at a remote strip, and we met a Australian couple that had to give up flying in their country because of all the governmental fees. They missed flying so much that they bought a Cessna 182 here in the states and vacation here once a year for a couple months just to enjoy our freedoms of flying. I’m afraid that we are slowly headed down this same slippery slope that they have experienced...
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  #6  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:02 AM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPX View Post
In fairness, ADS-B does not transmit where are you departed, where are you landed, or the owner. Granted, it can be determined by somebody wishing for that information, but it certainly is not broadcasted.

I can’t say that I am a fan of shutting off your a ADS-B. In remote areas, I have picked up lots of low altitude traffic that I otherwise would not have seen without it.
Not true. ADS-B transmits the position of your aircraft from the time it's on til the time is off. It transmits your take off roll, your lift off, your flight, touch down and taxi. And I pick up traffic all the time that does not have ADS-B out. ADS-B transmits your tail number and hex code.
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Last edited by FasGlas : 11-15-2019 at 10:06 AM.
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  #7  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:05 AM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhawk View Post
I have already heard of an instance where a pilot shut off his ADSB once outside transponder required airspace, and subsequently got a letter from our wonderful friends at the FAA. (So once you turn it on don’t turn it off in flight !)
Yes, "Teleporting".. You might get a letter. You have to turn it on from take off to a "Rule" space and back to the same airport. Nice ha.....
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  #8  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:05 AM
SPX SPX is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
Not true. ADS-B transmits the position of your aircraft from the time it's on til the time is off. It transmits your take off roll, your lift off, your flight, touch down and taxi. And I pick up traffic all the time that does not have ADS-B out.
It transmits the data, yes. But the vast majority of the airports do not have ADS-B coverage on the ground.

You pick up traffic without ADS-B out when they’re in radar coverage. If they didn’t have radar coverage, you wouldn’t see them via ADS-B in, unless they had ADS-B out.
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  #9  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:08 AM
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FasGlas FasGlas is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPX View Post
It transmits the data, yes. But the vast majority of the airports do not have ADS-B coverage on the ground.

You pick up traffic without ADS-B out when they’re in radar coverage. If they didn’t have radar coverage, you wouldn’t see them via ADS-B in, unless they had ADS-B out.
If you're not in ADS-B coverage you don't receive ADS-B.
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  #10  
Old 11-15-2019, 10:12 AM
SPX SPX is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FasGlas View Post
If you're not in ADS-B coverage you don't receive ADS-B.
That is incorrect. An ADS-B IN equipped aircraft can receive 978 and 1090 ADS-B OUT broadcasts (traffic) regardless of whether it is within range of an ADS-B ground station.
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