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  #1  
Old 10-03-2018, 09:17 PM
xblueh2o xblueh2o is offline
 
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Default Today's front page & Class E airspace

Seeing the article about Class E airspace got me thinking about something a former student of mine asked the other day that I couldn't find a good answer for. Wondering if there is anyone in the VAF braintrust from around the Las Vegas area that can shed some light.
About 40NM west of Las Vegas, starting just east of Calvada Meadows airport (74P) and running north to near Desert Rock airport there is a rectangular section of Class E airspace where on the outside Class E begins at 1200 AGL and on the inside it would be 14,500 MSL. That is simple enough. The question is why? What is the reason for this very specific shape and sized area?

If there are any instructors/pilots from the Vegas area who know why I would love to hear the reasoning for the shape, size and placement of this area.

Another interesting thing is, if you look at a sectional the rectangle is there. If you look at the Foreflight Aero chart, it isn't.


[ed. Link to article: http://www.boldmethod.com/learn-to-f...space/class-e/ v/r,dr]
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Last edited by DeltaRomeo : 10-04-2018 at 03:40 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-03-2018, 10:15 PM
Aluminum Aluminum is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xblueh2o View Post
About 40NM west of Las Vegas, starting just east of Calvada Meadows airport (74P) and running north to near Desert Rock airport there is a rectangular section of Class E airspace where on the outside Class E begins at 1200 AGL and on the inside it would be 14,500 MSL. That is simple enough. The question is why? What is the reason for this very specific shape and sized area?
According to the IFR low chart that looks like a MOA. They could tell you but then they'd have to...
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  #3  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:15 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
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Not marked as a MOA on the Sectional.

That is an odd thing indeed. Exactly 1 nm wide, and 25 nm long.

Maybe it is a designated Phase I test area for E-AB? I'm joking!!!!

The practical significance of making that sliver class-G rather than class-E is just the visibility and cloud clearance limits for VFR.

This is just a guess: It does extend inside the boundary of a Restricted Area, so maybe it is a corridor to permit entry and egress to/from the Restricted Area for UAVs or other aircraft that are mandated to fly VFR?
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  #4  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:44 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
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the article referenced by the home-page story says, "In class E airspace, IFR traffic is controlled by ATC."

This begs the question, and forgive me, I'm not IFR rated -- but isn't IFR traffic ALWAYS controlled by ATC? Is the author implying that an appropriately rated pilot in an appropriately certified airplane can fly IFR in class G airspace without a clearance from ATC?
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  #5  
Old 10-03-2018, 11:54 PM
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az_gila az_gila is offline
 
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Question

There is also a similar one, but slightly trapezoidal and with a dogleg in this case, just West of Page (PGA)

https://skyvector.com/?ll=36.9086153...art=301&zoom=6
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  #6  
Old 10-04-2018, 12:37 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith View Post
Is the author implying that an appropriately rated pilot in an appropriately certified airplane can fly IFR in class G airspace without a clearance from ATC?
This is correct, although you are still obligated to fly at least 1000’ (2000’ in designated mountainous areas) above terrain and obstacles, and descend using only published approaches. So you have to be sure you will enter VMC, or have an ifr clearance, prior to entering controlled airspace.
A few years back, several airports along northern CA’s coast sat in class G up to 5000’. It was common for an ifr rated pilot to depart without an ATC clearance, climb thru the coastal stratus to VMC still in class G, then depart into class E under VFR.
Of course, collision avoidance was based on the big sky theory.
These days it’s hard to find enough class G to do this.
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:47 AM
Aluminum Aluminum is offline
 
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Originally Posted by BobTurner View Post
although you are still obligated to fly at least 1000 (2000 in designated mountainous areas) above terrain and obstacles, and descend using only published approaches.
You are thinking airplanes. There are a lot of ag helicopters in the coastal fog regions of NorCal that routinely operate under non-VFR-legal conditions. Even for airplanes my understanding is that it's perfectly legal to conduct an entire flight in zero visibility between two class G airports without talking to anyone, as long as controlled airspace is never entered.
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Old 10-04-2018, 01:55 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by az_gila View Post
There is also a similar one, but slightly trapezoidal and with a dogleg in this case, just West of Page (PGA)

https://skyvector.com/?ll=36.9086153...art=301&zoom=6
This particular dog-leg shaped area happens to lie on the boundry between LA and Denver-controlled airspace. But I have no idea of its relevance, or why it is there.
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Old 10-04-2018, 02:03 AM
Aluminum Aluminum is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith View Post
Not marked as a MOA on the Sectional.
Correct. The brown shading on IFR low simply means "uncontrolled airspace to 14500'", but most instances are in proximity to restricted areas and MOAs, meaning civilian ATC can't guarantee separation there from 1200 AGL to 14500 MSL. Since there's a "bombing and gunnery range" right next to it, that seems like a pretty good guess why.
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  #10  
Old 10-04-2018, 02:10 AM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aluminum View Post
You are thinking airplanes. There are a lot of ag helicopters in the coastal fog regions of NorCal that routinely operate under non-VFR-legal conditions. Even for airplanes my understanding is that it's perfectly legal to conduct an entire flight in zero visibility between two class G airports without talking to anyone, as long as controlled airspace is never entered.
FAR 91.175 does require you to use a published approach to descend under ifr. Descent below the MDA/DA without the required visibility is not allowed. While many published approaches take you into class G, I know of none that start in class G.
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