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  #1  
Old 07-27-2018, 08:38 PM
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scottmillhouse scottmillhouse is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Madison, AL
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Default Fun times leaving Oshkosh

I believe arrival issues are now known and being worked. How about making departures more efficient too. To depart from HBC you must taxi the entire length of 36. Today I spent 45 minutes in taxi and saw several planes that had to pull over due to overheating. This also happened to me a few years ago with an even longer taxi. The cause is just what causes many traffic jams, failure to alternate merging traffic with the primary traffic. The line was continuously stopped to permit waves of side entry traffic. Use the zipper concept rather than the merge the flight of 10 Cessnas all at once concept. As an example it looked like vintage had a direct line for 36 take off without a wait.
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  #2  
Old 07-28-2018, 07:50 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse View Post
I believe arrival issues are now known and being worked. How about making departures more efficient too. To depart from HBC you must taxi the entire length of 36. Today I spent 45 minutes in taxi and saw several planes that had to pull over due to overheating. This also happened to me a few years ago with an even longer taxi. The cause is just what causes many traffic jams, failure to alternate merging traffic with the primary traffic. The line was continuously stopped to permit waves of side entry traffic. Use the zipper concept rather than the merge the flight of 10 Cessnas all at once concept. As an example it looked like vintage had a direct line for 36 take off without a wait.
Scott, to be honest, I don't think there is a departure issue. You got a peak time. Alternating wouldn't have changed the total, and stopping the line to merge multiple aircraft is simply fewer stops...i.e. less chance of someone being overrun. Recall the TBM/RV accident?

Overheating is a problem to be eliminated before visiting Oshkosh. Any RV that can't fly the 90 knot approach or taxi all day needs to be fixed.
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  #3  
Old 07-28-2018, 10:03 AM
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scottmillhouse scottmillhouse is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Any RV that can't fly the 90 knot approach or taxi all day needs to be fixed.
I take exception with taxi all day... try it and your CHTs will go to redline on an hour taxi. All RVs are cowled for air passage in flight but not for sitting still. Issue with my 9 a previous Oshkosh (only high CHT ever) and voltage issues this year with the 12. Had to shed loads in taxi this year since by design low RPM is a battery discharge.

I talked to others that left later without a problem and it has been a few years since my previous issue so it probably is a peak issue. It sure is frustrating when you stop and wait while all side traffic is merged in ahead of you and your CHT is climbing or voltage dropping. Obviously a problem for full airport length taxi only and not for the side entries. Zipper concept at peak does not have to be one to one but something reasonable to keep line moving like 8 forward, 2-4 merge. I still think it is an issue to address.
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  #4  
Old 07-28-2018, 10:37 AM
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AlexPeterson AlexPeterson is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse View Post
I take exception with taxi all day... try it and your CHTs will go to redline on an hour taxi. All RVs are cowled for air passage in flight but not for sitting still. Issue with my 9 a previous Oshkosh (only high CHT ever) and voltage issues this year with the 12. Had to shed loads in taxi this year since by design low RPM is a battery discharge.

SNIP
I tested this last year on arrival - 1.5 hour taxi... CHT's were ok and stable (don't recall, but somewhere in the low to mid 300's), but oil was hovering around 230-240 most of the time. Optimum rpm seemed to be about 1000. Oil likely would have been lower if it had been a departure taxi.
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2018, 10:43 AM
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Ed_Wischmeyer Ed_Wischmeyer is offline
 
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I spent an hour this morning with an old friend who is one of the bigwigs on the NOTAM and on flight line operations. You would not believe the challenges they face and, as he puts it, nobody knows everything about the operation.

The frustrations raised in the above posts are superficially reasonable, and I fault nobody for making those statements. However, the AirVenture operation is extraordinarily complex, and the current operation represents the wisdom of many very smart and dedicated people with years of experience in this unique environment. And the operation is run by volunteers.

I also spent time with an official at ultralights, and they face similar challenges.
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  #6  
Old 07-28-2018, 12:23 PM
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airguy airguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse View Post
I take exception with taxi all day... try it and your CHTs will go to redline on an hour taxi. All RVs are cowled for air passage in flight but not for sitting still. Issue with my 9 a previous Oshkosh (only high CHT ever) and voltage issues this year with the 12. Had to shed loads in taxi this year since by design low RPM is a battery discharge.
I put the Anti-Splat cowl flap in my 9A, and my oil temp and CHT's go DOWN on a long taxi from where they were on 90-knot conga line. If you are overheating, then the first answer you received is still the correct one. My primary alternator (Plane Power 60 amp) also keeps a firm buss voltage on my airplane at 600 rpm idle with no discharge, and I have a higher electrical load than almost all RV's with a full glass panel and electric-only fuel pumps.
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2018, 01:20 PM
pilotkms pilotkms is offline
 
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I left from HBC Thursday at 8:00 am. So in the middle of departures. At the right turn on to the 36 taxiway had 30 planes in front of me. Slow taxi with a couple of stop+waits. No heat or brake problems. Controllers were releasing planes every 20 or 30 seconds depending on flying speeds. Seemed rather efficient.
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  #8  
Old 07-28-2018, 01:38 PM
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I departed Thursday morning, which as defined by ATC as the busiest departure time. I started my taxi from the HBC island at 0730 and had wheels up at 0800.
Not too bad considering the long taxi to 36L. I probably had 6 or 8 planes ahead of me.

The key is to get out early or time your departure away from peak times.
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Last edited by roadrunner20 : 07-28-2018 at 01:41 PM.
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  #9  
Old 07-28-2018, 04:09 PM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottmillhouse View Post
I take exception with taxi all day... try it and your CHTs will go to redline on an hour taxi.
Care to make a wager? I'll give you both CHT and oil temperature.
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  #10  
Old 07-29-2018, 07:46 AM
49clipper 49clipper is offline
 
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Default 49clipper

Overheating is a problem to be eliminated before visiting Oshkosh. Any RV that can't fly the 90 knot approach or taxi all day needs to be fixed.[/quote]



Agree with Dan, fix the issues.
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