EI or JPI, Experience,Evaluation, thoughts, recommendations

Background information only - When my wife and I built our RV-6A we had owned a PA28-181 Archer II for 22 years and I flew it well over 4,000 hrs including flights to work every day for 15 years. It had a Lycoming O-360-A4M (solid crank) with a fixed pitch prop. I like dedicated independent instruments that perform one function and provide the information without clutter in the same place all the time.

I selected the Lycoming O-360-A1A and a Hartzell constant speed prop of 72" diameter and 7666 blades. I installed a single probe EGT guage and no CHT gauge like the Archer.

We intended to race the RV-6A in long cross country races like the 1996 Aircraft Spruce "Great Cross Country Flying Race from Denver to Oshkosh. In that race we had to stop and refuel in Cherokee, Iowa. With the best of haste it cost 15 minutes of zero speed and I did not want to repeat that experience. So, when we bought the kit, we also bought wing extending tip tanks from Farn Reed in Grants Pass, Oregon (no longer manufactured) and I bought two "two tank" fuel quantity gauges from EI to monitor the 4 tanks. I made the first flight in March of 2004 and those gauges have performed flawlessly ever since. I also installed an EI tachometer that still works perfectly.

In the process of modifying for speed and running in every race we could I yielded to the sugggestion that I monitor all four cylinder head temperatures and all 4 exhaust gas temperatures to assure that i could tell the state of all four cylinders at any time. So I several years ago I bought the 8 probes and two 4 cylinder individually selectable (one at a time) gauges (instruments) for CHT and EGT from EI. They have been very reliable until recently when the cylinder #4 CHT stopped working.

Last December I worked with Red Hamilton in his hangar and shop to rebuild the engine to boost the power. We installed high compression pistons and other internal performance enhancing goodies while maintaining the 360 cubic inch displacement. We shipped the cylinders to Barrett's in Tulsa, OK to have them flow balanced.

Fast forward to today:

Fuel burn rate - With the new engine configuration in racing mode I can burn over 20 gallons per hour but if cut back on the manifold pressure and RPM I can get the burn rate down to a much more reasonable but unknown level (useful for travel). For around 30 years I have been able to flight plan for 10 gph with rock solid reliability. This change made me realize I need a fuel flow gauge in order to control that parameter. So... I went with EI again but I have no space to install it. I do not let having no obvious implementation stop me from proceeding when the need is obvious.

Operation/leaning - The engine is so smooth and well balanced in function and performance that some of my old practices do not work anymore. The primary operational difference is leaning for best power. I used to lean until the first sign of roughness then back off ~100 F and 1300F on cylinder #4 eventually became my standard. Now I get no roughness. I can keep leaning until the oil temperature goes very high, the oil pressure drops and the power drops off as indicated to me through sound and feel. You only have to experience that once to know it is not a good thing.

After consulting with Red I went through a process of finding the peak by some tedious testing involving manually leaning switching the EGT through all 4 cylinders writing down values and through that process developed a new target number that produces good power and keeps me out of trouble with the engine.

BUT... I have no confidence in this mode of operation for finding the optimum power for any race in any environment. Consulting with Red again he repeated something that he told me back in December, "you need to be able to instantly see the state of all 4 cylinder CHTs and EGTs all the time."

I see the EI UBG-16 appears to satisfy the need for EGT and CHT and that would free up an instrument hole for my still in the box fuel flow gauge but Red uses JPI. He has no knowledge of the relative EI quality, function and performance and suggested that some inputs from people that have experience with them would be a good idea.

OK that is the purpose of this post, to get your inputs on JPI and EI combination EGT & CHT instruments.

Bob Axsom

Bob,

I installed a JPI 700 series box in a C172XP that used to own. Installation was straight forward, in a 2.25" hole, even though it required a 337. I was very happy with the instrument, it did what it was supposed to and was reliable. Leaning was very straight forward. I believe that the 800 series boxes are more capable, but more $$$. If you can wait until Osh they usually have a rebate scheme running.

Pete

I've used and installed EI for years, never had a problem with any of their stuff and support has always been absolutely first class. I personally prefer them over JPI. I now have an EI MVP-50 installed and I love it.

EMS

Hi Bob, I met you in Mitchell, SD last year at the race. I have had a UBG16 & EI fuel flow with GPS provision in my 7A and liked the way it worked (for sale, PM me if interested), I recently switched to the JPI 740 because I ran out of space in my panel. They are both good units. I actually miss my big tach and M/P gauges, in formation they were much easier to read. hope to see you in Mt. Vernon Ill. in July.

Bob Axsom said:

OK that is the purpose of this post, to get your inputs on JPI and EI combination EGT & CHT instruments.

Bob Axsom

Click to expand...

Bob, like others higher in the thread, I have used or flown behind a variety of EI instruments over the years. I would have no hesitation at all installing any of their products if they had a feature set I needed.

The customer service at EI is excellent, and I have personal experience to confirm it.

I have never heard anything bad about the function or reliability of JPI gauges.

Several years ago, before VAF, when the Matronics list was the only large RV community resource, JPI started playing "lawyerball" and attempting to shut down small competitors. One of those small shops was Matt Dralle, who sponsored the list. A predictable outcry ensued, and eventually a confidential settlement was reached.

During the kerfuffle, I sent a letter to the principal at JPI. It was polite, reasoned, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I received a reply that made it clear that this was a quite deliberate strategy, and not a case of lawyers being overzealous protecting his copyrights. I realize that he was probably angry, and had gotten a huge volume of likely rude comments from the community, but his reply also made it clear that he was someone I never cared to support with my business.

Again, As far as I know both companies make excellent products. The EI guys appear to be genuinely good guys, and have been supportive of general and experimental aviation over the years.

I remember Gene

I still have your card with the racing boat on top. I plan to be in Mt. Vernon for sure. The AirVentrure Cup Race is my favorite.

Bob Axsom

I put a JPI 740 in a Christen Eagle last year and I am very happy with it. The Eagle has the instruments in the front seat and the pilot sits in back, JPI put extra wires in the unit so that I could put remote buttons for the pilot. I called tech support once and they were polite and helpful.

I had EI units in another plane and they worked flawlessly and EI had also agreed to put the wires for the remote buttons, I had considered the MVP-50 which is a great unit, but much more expensive with a lot of capabilities that I had no use for.

So, while I haven't said anything that will help you choose between them, I don't think you will go wrong with either one of them.

UBG 16 and fuel flow

1400 hrs so far. Great service when you finally do burn out a probe. Note that you can reserve a channel in the UBG to read fuel flow. Now you have space!

EI

I have used EI gauges in several planes and they are great, as is their customer service. I currently use the bar graph UBG-16 and it works great, along with the fuel flow and other gauges. I highly recommend them.
As for JPI, I have never used them due to feedback I have gotten from other JPI users who basically like the instruments, but report that customer service really sucks! (Third party information, but from folks I trust.)
Good luck.

flyeyes said:

Bob, like others higher in the thread, I have used or flown behind a variety of EI instruments over the years. I would have no hesitation at all installing any of their products if they had a feature set I needed.

The customer service at EI is excellent, and I have personal experience to confirm it.

I have never heard anything bad about the function or reliability of JPI gauges.

Several years ago, before VAF, when the Matronics list was the only large RV community resource, JPI started playing "lawyerball" and attempting to shut down small competitors. One of those small shops was Matt Dralle, who sponsored the list. A predictable outcry ensued, and eventually a confidential settlement was reached.

During the kerfuffle, I sent a letter to the principal at JPI. It was polite, reasoned, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I received a reply that made it clear that this was a quite deliberate strategy, and not a case of lawyers being overzealous protecting his copyrights. I realize that he was probably angry, and had gotten a huge volume of likely rude comments from the community, but his reply also made it clear that he was someone I never cared to support with my business.

Again, As far as I know both companies make excellent products. The EI guys appear to be genuinely good guys, and have been supportive of general and experimental aviation over the years.

Click to expand...

I remember the kerfuffle very well, too, and although I didn't write a letter to JPI I would spend my money with EI any day rather than JPI. James described the fiasco quite eloquently.

flyeyes said:

... Several years ago, before VAF, when the Matronics list was the only large RV community resource, JPI started playing "lawyerball" and attempting to shut down small competitors. One of those small shops was Matt Dralle, who sponsored the list. A predictable outcry ensued, and eventually a confidential settlement was reached.

During the kerfuffle, I sent a letter to the principal at JPI. It was polite, reasoned, and gave him the benefit of the doubt. I received a reply that made it clear that this was a quite deliberate strategy, and not a case of lawyers being overzealous protecting his copyrights. I realize that he was probably angry, and had gotten a huge volume of likely rude comments from the community, but his reply also made it clear that he was someone I never cared to support with my business ...

Click to expand...

What he said.

When that firestorm erupted and we all saw the true character of those at JPI, I also wrote a succinct letter to JPI informing them that I would NEVER purchase any of their products if they continued with their legal nonsense. They never relented and settled things with Matt behind the scenes.

True to my word, when it came time to outfit my panel, I avoided any and all JPI products.

I even made a little game of stopping by the JPI booths at Oshkosh and reminding them of that fact each year. After a couple of discussions with them, I realized that they really didn't care what the RV community thought of them or their business practices, and that they would just sell their wares to new builders who were blissfully unaware of their company's history.

Bob, buy what fits your needs. Just know that some of us will never forget the Matronics issue, and will never buy JPI products.

EI vs JPI

I have purchased and installed both brands and had small issues with each.
Both's equipment work.....EI is far superior in customer service. JPI...not so much....
EI staff is very knowledgeable, on the phone and at the shows. JPI must keep the smart folks locked away somewhere designing equipment.
Just my experience, yours may vary.

Thanks all

I bought the EI UBG-16.

Bob Axsom

UBG-16

Bob: You will be happy with your system. I have installed over a dozen and the 1 or 2 small issues that I experienced were handled quickly and thoroughly to my complete satisfaction by the most pleasant folks at E.I. I will continue to use and endorse them.

I have a new data logging module for the UBG-16 if you need one.



Don Broussard
RV9 Rebuild in Progress

I've actually got a combo of both JPI and EI instruments in front & back cockpits of my experimental non-RV. Ideally I would've just gone with one manufacturer but practical circumstances dictated this wasn't possible for the setup I wanted.

JPI actually re-engineered their experimental EDM specifically to better suit the engine I have. They did some permanent software and hardware mods to achieve this (and now anyone else with that motor will get the same advantage). That's not bad customer service.

However if I were to level one criticism at JPI, it would be that their sales staff don't always know the product to the depth you need, and getting onto the person who does can be hard. But I don't think the quality and design of their products can be in doubt.

EI are good all round.

"I'll never buy JPI as long as I live". Yeah I just don't get that. I've followed that "battle" for quite some time and the result is nothing more than a collective punishment of every employee who works at JPI for the actions (and the perceived motivation) of a senior individual quite some time back. It has nothing to do with the quality of their product. Those holding such a view might think they're doing Matt Dralle a favour but I don't actually think they're realistically doing anyone a favour. If you want to permanently exclude a manufacturer from consideration for your instruments, at least make product functionality and quality a prime consideration. Just my view. It's not worth anything, but seeing as the old war has been brought up.....

I'll 2nd the vote for EI. An American Made product run by just good folks who do an excellent job and make an excellent high quality product. Any wonder why Garmin, Dynon, AFS, and GRT ALL universally have chosen the EI fuel flow sensor for their systems?

Just my 2 cents as usual.

Cheers,
Stein

One little side note

I called IE and talked with their tech support staff to make sure what I have planned would work - it will. I fully intended to buy direct from EI but before I did I checked pricing because I know manufacturers like to sopport their distributers and win their loyalty by holding a little higher price some times to ecourage purchasing through their distributers. Aircraft spruce was $400 cheaper.

Bob Axsom

Another vote for the EI UBG-16. Bullet proof, outstanding customer service, MUX for easy data download. Lots of channels available for additions besides EGT/CHT. Great folks, VERY helpful with technical questions.

Download and read ther engine diagnostic manual when you've got some time--there's some good info in there.

Cheers,

Vac

Vote for EI

Another happy customer with EI instrumentation.

The MVP 50 is a marvel of an engine monitor with recording features
for all engine parameters and an intuitive program interface and display.
I have Garmin and Dynon displays in my Rv-10 and chose to use the
MVP-50 as a stand alone engine monitoring system, no matter what else I upgrade in the future, the EI MVP-50 will stay.

Previously I had an RV-8 with EI's SR-8A smart analyzer and FP-5L fuel
flow analyzer as well as RPM and manifold pressure instruments, all installed after other instruments crapped out.
Bullet proof hardware and a set of complete and easy to understand installation instruction along with operating manuals that hardly require the use of their exceptional customer service.

A JPI user

About ten years ago I bought a JPI 930 (I think that was the model) and put it in my Steen Skybolt. Flew the **** out of that airplane and found the JPI to be bullet proof. I sent the box back twice and the thumb drive once. None of the box returns were failures. One was to perform a mod I requested and the other was to ?fix something that wasn?t broken.? The thumb drive had to be replaced. Here?s the kicker. All three returns were way beyond the warranty period but each time I?d get the equipment back and they?d say ?oh this is covered under the warrantee.? I have a two fellow JPI users here at KCOI and all three of us are very satisfied.

JPI Vs E.I.

About 1.5 years ago I was shopping for an engine analyzer. I wanted fuel flow and a few extra temperature add-ons with the device.

I had phoned and emailed each company with several questions, and never mentioned I was looking at the other's instruments.

The JPI companies responses to email questions and by phone mostly focused on bashing the instruments E.I. sold. Oddly enough I never mentioned E.I. in the conversations, they did.

When I communicated with E.I. they only focused on my questions, and only discussed their product, never once mentioning their competitors.

Guess which one I went with? E.I. UGB-16

It has worked nicely, their documentation is good.
The data download was quite easy to work with, and I made my
own MS XL spreadsheet to chart and graph my data. They also had
some nice rebate coupons. Follow up customer service has been great.
Always taking my questions (as generic as they may be) seriously.

EI, I have three EI gauges purchased used and have called EI a couple of times for info on installation and adjustment. Told them they were used and still got outstanding customer service!