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Oxygen refills?

BruceP

Well Known Member
Hi all,
I have an Aerox portable oxygen system that I've finally used up the supply of oxygen that came with the system when I bought it. I am now frustrated because I can't seem to find anybody to refill it locally. Does anybody have any idea of where I can get this refilled in or near Bakersfield, CA? Thanks!
 
I bought a transfill hose and my own re-fill bottle from my local welding supply store, way easier and cheaper in the long run.
 
I get mine filled at the local weld gas and propane store for $22. and the local FBO at AFJ did it for free once.
 
Welding shop +1

Thanks to Aerox's CGA 540 type connection, there's a good chance you can get it filled via a welding shop and for le$$.

Many welding shops won't fill medical tanks (CGA 870 style), and other shops may require a prescription. Some welding shops won't fill if they believe you're using it for medical/flying use. If queried, might have hinted at using oxygen for welding (but then I have to be ready for follow-on questions...), my wife's used fish tank set-up that came with that weird aviation tank, home brewing or just simply refilling it for a "friend" and don't know the details.

I've also had good luck finding a couple 120+ cu ft/large aluminum tanks lately on Craigslist (one was even full of O2!). Can save time and money if you use your system enough, even with the added cost of connectors. Filling small vs medium-big tanks is (nearly) the same cost.

We all could likely use more O2 at RV-capable cruising altitudes, more so for XC.
 
Thanks to Aerox's CGA 540 type connection, there's a good chance you can get it filled via a welding shop and for le$$.

Many welding shops won't fill medical tanks (CGA 870 style), and other shops may require a prescription. Some welding shops won't fill if they believe you're using it for medical/flying use. If queried, might have hinted at using oxygen for welding (but then I have to be ready for follow-on questions...), my wife's used fish tank set-up that came with that weird aviation tank, home brewing or just simply refilling it for a "friend" and don't know the details.

I've also had good luck finding a couple 120+ cu ft/large aluminum tanks lately on Craigslist (one was even full of O2!). Can save time and money if you use your system enough, even with the added cost of connectors. Filling small vs medium-big tanks is (nearly) the same cost.

We all could likely use more O2 at RV-capable cruising altitudes, more so for XC.

I went to 3 places today: Airgas, West Air(formerly Praxair) and one medical supply place, Lincare. None of them could do it.

I like to fly high but even when I don't I find I get a headache around 8,000 feet or so. I routinely fly above 11,500 because of the Sierras which I love to fly over. This past weekend I flew up to Tahoe at 13,500 and 14,500. I would've had a major headache but the oxygen does away with that.
 
I know it's usually more expensive, but why not go to an FBO? As John stated in post 5 Bakersfield Jet Center at KBFL offers O2 service according to AIRNAV.
 
If you want to fly down to Long Beach (40 min.) we can pick you up at the airport and run you over to Air Source to get the tank filled. They will check to make sure it's in hydro and refill while we wait. They are on the West side of the airport so it's really close.

-Marc
 
I know it's usually more expensive, but why not go to an FBO? As John stated in post 5 Bakersfield Jet Center at KBFL offers O2 service according to AIRNAV.

If there are no other choices, then sure - the FBO is an option. But my problem with them is that I used to be on a Fire Department, where we had an O2 cascade system. We had the bottles changed out a couple of times a year, and O2 wasn't even a line item in the budget...it was THAT cheap. Years before that, I worked in the diving business, so I know that the labor involved in filling an air or O2 bottle is pretty minimal. (Owning the air or O2 station is the biog cost for a commercial operation.)

Our little bottles are so tiny as to use a negligible amount of O2 out of a storage system - so the thought of paying fifty or sixty bucks to fill one just goes against what I was taught by my depression-era father, if you will. If you're going to use O2 regularly (like every flight), for the price of a couple of FBO fills, you can rent a big bottle from a welding supply house, and buy a transfill line, and you'll have O2 on hand to use all the time. Think long-term, and you can do much better than an FBO.

And remembrance, just because you live a certain place doesn't;t mean you have to buy your O2 there. Find another friendly pilot (or a few) within a half hour flight, and share a system. If you REALLy want to use O2 all the time, build an infrastructure that will serve you economically. Think outside the box (or local area).
 
If there are no other choices, then sure - the FBO is an option. But my problem with them is that I used to be on a Fire Department, where we had an O2 cascade system. We had the bottles changed out a couple of times a year, and O2 wasn't even a line item in the budget...it was THAT cheap. Years before that, I worked in the diving business, so I know that the labor involved in filling an air or O2 bottle is pretty minimal. (Owning the air or O2 station is the biog cost for a commercial operation.)

Our little bottles are so tiny as to use a negligible amount of O2 out of a storage system - so the thought of paying fifty or sixty bucks to fill one just goes against what I was taught by my depression-era father, if you will. If you're going to use O2 regularly (like every flight), for the price of a couple of FBO fills, you can rent a big bottle from a welding supply house, and buy a transfill line, and you'll have O2 on hand to use all the time. Think long-term, and you can do much better than an FBO.

And remembrance, just because you live a certain place doesn't;t mean you have to buy your O2 there. Find another friendly pilot (or a few) within a half hour flight, and share a system. If you REALLy want to use O2 all the time, build an infrastructure that will serve you economically. Think outside the box (or local area).

I get that and agree 100%. However, my post was aimed at the OP's post #10 where apparently he's tried some of the suggestions and is still having trouble finding an inexpensive a local source (barring installing his own fill system) -- at a certain point sometimes the effort exceeds the benefit. YMMV....
 
All you really need is a transfill line, and a buddy with an oxygen/acetylene rig getting dusty in the corner of his shop. You can pay to keep his big bottle refilled (or swapped) pretty cheap, and tap it many times.
 
O2 for frugal folks...

As an admitted and committed tight-wad, there was no way I could stomach shelling out $50 or more for 22cf of oxygen, so I spent way too much time scouring the forums and elsewhere trying to find the cheapest solution. As usual, Paul and the VAF collective wisdom have already figured this out - get your own welding tanks and a fill whip and you're sorted. Sounds like a lot of capital investment huh? NOPE - check this out...

https://weldingsupply.com/cgi-bin/einstein.pl?Next::1::OR:terms::PH#H12

$3 per month tank rental and $26.41 for a 251cf refill!

I decided to mosey into the affiliated store in Chicago to see if this was real and after showing them the internet link, left with 2 "K" cylinders for the advertised price. There was a $150 security deposit per cyl but I'm fine with that as I'll get it back when I return the cylinders.
 
I had the same problem

I also struck out with welding shops and medical supply places. Got my bottle filled right before a trip at the FBO for $65 (!), and they only got it about halfway full (!!).

Finally realized that my scuba shop could do it. They didn't even blink. $10!

At that price, and given my low usage (love the Mountain High O2D2) I can't really justify buying my own transfill hose and setting up a big tank.

Incidentally, I now use oxygen starting at 5000 feet if I'm going on anything like a long trip. I started using a pulse oximeter and was really surprised to see how low my oxygen saturation was even at relatively low altitudes -- and even though I'm a nonsmoker in good health.

My doc says response to altitude changes is very idiosyncratic. Or maybe he called me an idiot, I was probably oxygen deprived, whatever. :)
 
How many fills can you get out of a single 251, into a 22 CF D tank, say....with the big tank dropping down to 1500 PSI?
 
Number of fills

How many fills can you get out of a single 251, into a 22 CF D tank, say....with the big tank dropping down to 1500 PSI?

Dunno - one so far:D
I would expect the pressure in the primary tank to drop off fairly quickly though, that's why I got 2 tanks. Oh, and don't even think about paying $300 for a fancy fill whip either, the same website has 3000psi hoses and T fittings so you can assemble your own whip for a 2 tank cascade for under $100.
 
I found a Homedics home filling system on Craigslist. It has an oxygen generator and a 3000 psi compressor. It has already paid itself back to me since local filling in the flatland of indianapolis is usually 100dollars or more.
 
I like to fly high but even when I don't I find I get a headache around 8,000 feet or so.

Ditto. I well remember the first time Diane and I decided to use our new tank after checking with the pulse oximeter. Slightly low, but not much.

The part that was striking was that the headache I didn't realize that I had, went away immediately. It was an eye opener.
 
What do you consider a low oxygen saturation? Remember the o2 saturation curve is S shaped. Rapid drop off of oxygen transport occurs at a saturation in the low 80s, not that I am suggesting or recommending anyone fly at those levels.
Best way to find out how you react is to put yourself in a high altitude chamber and see how you are functioning at various altitudes and saturation. We all react slightly differently!
 
I emailed Aerox yesterday as well and they responded immediately(thanks Byron Peters!--no relation). They suggested getting the fill line and getting a big cylinder and filling myself as several of you have suggested.

One of the places I visited yesterday said that medical/aviation oxygen is "dryer" than oxygen used for welding and they didn't have that. That's when they suggested going to the medical supply place. Do any of you know if there is a difference in medical/aviation oxygen? And if so, is it significant enough to worry about it? I'm guessing no given some of the responses on this thread.
 
AME Can Give Prescription for Medical O2

Next visit to your AME can get you a prescription for 02. Then just find a local home medical supply company.

Yes, you can buy a whip to fill from welding cylinders, but be very careful, one drop of any hydrocarbon substance will cause an explosion. Use No Oil is on all regulators for a reason!

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
 
One of the places I visited yesterday said that medical/aviation oxygen is "dryer" than oxygen used for welding and they didn't have that. That's when they suggested going to the medical supply place. Do any of you know if there is a difference in medical/aviation oxygen? And if so, is it significant enough to worry about it? I'm guessing no given some of the responses on this thread.

For many years now it's all produced by liquification of air, it all comes out of the same truck.
 
What do you consider a low oxygen saturation? Remember the o2 saturation curve is S shaped. Rapid drop off of oxygen transport occurs at a saturation in the low 80s, not that I am suggesting or recommending anyone fly at those levels.
Best way to find out how you react is to put yourself in a high altitude chamber and see how you are functioning at various altitudes and saturation. We all react slightly differently!

In case that was aimed at my "slightly low"comment, we were both measuring above 90 but about 4 points below what we measured on the ground. So, like I said, slightly low. My wife, being a nurse, was familiar with medical oxygen use and their saturation guidelines and suggested we hook up. It was not a level that I would have expected oxygen to make me feel better. It did.
 
How many fills can you get out of a single 251, into a 22 CF D tank, say....with the big tank dropping down to 1500 PSI?

It's a complicated effort so I may have gotten it wrong, but assuming your "K" cylinder from the welding supply is filled to the 2200 PSI spec and you run your 22 CF Jumbo-D cylinder completely empty each time (not recommended), after 4 fills your K cylinder (and your Jumbo D) will be down to just over 1500 PSI.

Or, put another way, you can fill your 22 CF cylinder 9 times to greater than half capacity. 11 CF of oxygen is still useful.

When I was building my system last fall, I realized that paying a little extra for a 300 CF "T" cylinder would result in much greater utility, mostly because of the increased initial fill pressure of 2640 psi. (Make sure not to push your small cylinder pressure that high, though - most are labeled far lower.)
 
One of the places I visited yesterday said that medical/aviation oxygen is "dryer" than oxygen used for welding and they didn't have that. That's when they suggested going to the medical supply place. Do any of you know if there is a difference in medical/aviation oxygen? And if so, is it significant enough to worry about it? I'm guessing no given some of the responses on this thread.

Same stuff. There is no difference.

-Marc
 
It's a complicated effort so I may have gotten it wrong, but assuming your "K" cylinder from the welding supply is filled to the 2200 PSI spec and you run your 22 CF Jumbo-D cylinder completely empty each time (not recommended), after 4 fills your K cylinder (and your Jumbo D) will be down to just over 1500 PSI.

Or, put another way, you can fill your 22 CF cylinder 9 times to greater than half capacity. 11 CF of oxygen is still useful.

When I was building my system last fall, I realized that paying a little extra for a 300 CF "T" cylinder would result in much greater utility, mostly because of the increased initial fill pressure of 2640 psi. (Make sure not to push your small cylinder pressure that high, though - most are labeled far lower.)

Hum...interesting, I would have thought you could get more than that from the one 251 tank? I can see why the cascade fill method would work better than one tank. Thanks for sharing this info.
 
One of the places I visited yesterday said that medical/aviation oxygen is "dryer" than oxygen used for welding and they didn't have that. That's when they suggested going to the medical supply place. Do any of you know if there is a difference in medical/aviation oxygen? And if so, is it significant enough to worry about it? I'm guessing no given some of the responses on this thread.
Like has been stated, both are filled from liquid oxygen, only difference is the aviator is then checked for moisture. Just an additional step. No difference other than one more step.

Best regards,
Mike Bauer
 
Also my experience. I was AMAZED how much better I felt after flying with O2 even at low altitudes. For those who haven't tried it, it's well worth a shot.

It was not a level that I would have expected oxygen to make me feel better. It did.
 
Hum...interesting, I would have thought you could get more than that from the one 251 tank? I can see why the cascade fill method would work better than one tank. Thanks for sharing this info.

Unfortunately the only thing that's useful for transfilling is pressure. Welders can use nearly all the O2 in the tank because they only need 10 PSI or so. But for transfilling, a bulk tank 3/4 full in terms of cubic feet remaining is nearly useless.

Some folks get 2 tanks just for this purpose. Bulk fill off the emptier tank, then top up to full pressure with the fuller one. Makes them both last longer than they otherwise would individually.
 
Saw this thread which peaked my interest as my rv6 used to have an oxygen system that a PO uninstalled somewhere along the way. I looked on Craigslist just for the heck of it and was able to pick up a brand new 2 place 13 cu ft Aerox system for $100. Talk about a good find.

As for the refilling part of the thread, I was originally looking on Craigslist for one of the home refilling stations. I plan on keeping an eye out but for now will just have my MX guys fill it when needed.
 
Unfortunately the only thing that's useful for transfilling is pressure. Welders can use nearly all the O2 in the tank because they only need 10 PSI or so. But for transfilling, a bulk tank 3/4 full in terms of cubic feet remaining is nearly useless.

Some folks get 2 tanks just for this purpose. Bulk fill off the emptier tank, then top up to full pressure with the fuller one. Makes them both last longer than they otherwise would individually.

Yep - developed a spread sheet for this. Starting with full 251 tanks (K?), one tank would yield 5 fills (22 cf, JD) if it was at 300 psi before filling. With two K tanks cascading, one would get 15 fills before dropping below 1500 psi on filled tank.

I question getting a proper trans fill hardware manifold for $100 and would like to see the diagram and parts list. I did the economics for a $30 fill and with $450 for trans fill hardware, one K tank, it would take 12 fills (with mileage cost) to pay off the investment. It takes about 20 with 2 K tanks.

Yes, the cost per fill is way low, so payback in calendar time will depend on how much one uses/fills the tanks. It might be better just to get two flight tanks, and use each one down to the bottom.

The convenience of always having an 80% full flight tank anytime for TO is also to be considered, not just the cost per fill. A few friends at an airport would easily push a 3 tank cascade into reality in terms of cost and convenience. If you could get them to pay - they are pilots.

In case you wanted to get the last psi from the K tank and fully fill the flight tank there is a compressor for that. I got a quote for$5k. Payoff is a bit longer. Conclusion - cascade with more tanks is still way more cost effective.

So what am I doing - finishing my plane. Then get make the O2 refill decision.
 
Fire Departments

This has not been mentioned. Do you know anybody with the local Fire Department? Seems everyone knows a fire fighter. Many have a cascading fill stations. Stop by and see if they do and see if they will fill your tank. Many will do it as "training."

I fly medical helicopters. We were based at a fire department that had a cascade system. They taught me how to use it. I filled my D bottle several times a year.

As mentioned, check with your doctor and get a prescription for O2. Then a medical supply will be your next best option. FBO's are ridiculous on their prices!!
 
O2

A 2 bottle cascade only requires a simple shutoff valve and T fitting and a short hose. If you have several friends to share the cost get a two bottle or more cascade with the largest bottles.
 
O2 fill list

Would sure be nice if there was a location we could post a list of cheap O2 refills across the country. Anyone at CXP and we are home, shoot me a message if you want a fill.
 
Would sure be nice if there was a location we could post a list of cheap O2 refills across the country.

Great idea. My son and I are planning a long trip around the country next spring and would love to have a list of good oxygen refill locations like the RV Hotel or Courtesy Car list.

I'll go first: I have a trans-fill setup at KBAZ New Braunfels in my hanger. Set up for the standard CGA 540 fitting like on my Aerox bottle. Drop me an email and if I'm in town, I can meet a fellow RVer and help fill your aviation bottle for a donation ($10?).
 
weld tank to Areox bottle

Read a lot on forum and probable listed somewhere. Prefer hose and fitting as an assemble but sure I can put items together. I've seen what I think I need but big money / small wallet.
 
Cascade system for Dummies (aka me!)

After reading through this and other threads on O2, I'm not finding the details I'm looking for (or simply don't understand what I'm reading). So for the sake of argument if I wanted to build a 2-tank cascade refill system, what would I specifically ask for at my local welding supply shop with regards to the tanks and refills?

-- What size tanks?
-- Do you sign up for some kind of O2 service for refilling?
-- Is it better to buy or rent the tanks and does that have an impact on getting them refilled?

Oh and is there anything I shouldn't do like say to the welding folks "Oh I don't want to weld, I need the tanks so I can refill my aviation O2 bottle", or something to that effect?

I realize that I'd also need a transfill and an intercoupling kit but those parts seems pretty straightforward.
 
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Todd, I am not sure if I would bother to cascade. A large single bottle... will refill the flying bottle many many times. It may not be up to full capacity after a while.... but it usually lasts a long time. Easy fills right at your hangar make it convenient and inexpensive. I purchased a really large bottle of oxygen and then took it to the welding shop. They just exchanged for a full one and noted in my account that it is not a rental tank.
 
After reading through this and other threads on O2, I'm not finding the details I'm looking for (or simply don't understand what I'm reading). So for the sake of argument if I wanted to build a 2-tank cascade refill system, what would I specifically ask for at my local welding supply shop with regards to the tanks and refills?

-- What size tanks?
-- Do you sign up for some kind of O2 service for refilling?
-- Is it better to buy or rent the tanks and does that have an impact on getting them refilled?

Oh and is there anything I shouldn't do like say to the welding folks "Oh I don't want to weld, I need the tanks so I can refill my aviation O2 bottle", or something to that effect?

I realize that I'd also need a transfill and an intercoupling kit but those parts seems pretty straightforward.

Just locate your local welding gas supplier and ask about a K tank (249 ft3, 2200 psi) and a 4K tank - (500 ft3 , 4500 psi) rental prices. The 4k is being promoted to save tank storage, so might be attractively priced. Start asking for parts for a transfil and they might get spooky - esp with 4500 psi. Dangerous stuff under pressure and easy to be ignorant of hazards. One might use a regulator to limit the filled unit to 2100-2200 psi just to be safe. More $$$. Buying a used tank might be ok, but here a K is $30/yr with $150 deposit.

Assembly cleanliness, lubes, leaks etc would concern a vendor as they might be concerned about liability by just selling parts to a novice. They might give you some training and then sell an assembled unit, though. They are just trying to stay in business and keep people alive. They really want to sell gasses and be helpful.

Surprised an Auburn guy doesn't know this stuff. ;)

Oh - I mentioned that a full K tank filling a JD (21 ft3) flight tank can refill it 5 times from 300 psi before dropping below 1500 psi on both. That is 72% of capacity in terms of moles and hours at chosen altitude. That is 4X the rated tank flight hours.

I have not done numbers for a 4K tank. A little more complicated for the calculations.
 
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Great idea. My son and I are planning a long trip around the country next spring and would love to have a list of good oxygen refill locations like the RV Hotel or Courtesy Car list.

I'll go first: I have a trans-fill setup at KBAZ New Braunfels in my hanger. Set up for the standard CGA 540 fitting like on my Aerox bottle. Drop me an email and if I'm in town, I can meet a fellow RVer and help fill your aviation bottle for a donation ($10?).

I'm in. I have a transfill setup in my hangar at 3AU, Augusta KS, right outside Wichita. Stop in anywhere in the Wichita area for a free RV hotel, free dinner, free beer, and free O2 fill (CGA-540). Unfortunately no hangar space, but tie downs are free or nearly so.

Wait, do I hear Vlad's plane starting up? :D
 
Just locate your local welding gas supplier and ask about a K tank (249 ft3, 2200 psi) and a 4K tank - (500 ft3 , 4500 psi) rental prices. The 4k is being promoted to save tank storage, so might be attractively priced. Start asking for parts for a transfil and they might get spooky - esp with 4500 psi. Dangerous stuff under pressure and easy to be ignorant of hazards. One might use a regulator to limit the filled unit to 2100-2200 psi just to be safe. More $$$. Buying a used tank might be ok, but here a K is $30/yr with $150 deposit.

Assembly cleanliness, lubes, leaks etc would concern a vendor as they might be concerned about liability by just selling parts to a novice. They might give you some training and then sell an assembled unit, though. They are just trying to stay in business and keep people alive. They really want to sell gasses and be helpful.

Surprised an Auburn guy doesn't know this stuff. ;)

Oh - I mentioned that a full K tank filling a JD (21 ft3) flight tank can refill it 5 times from 300 psi before dropping below 1500 psi on both. That is 72% of capacity in terms of moles and hours at chosen altitude. That is 4X the rated tank flight hours.

I have not done numbers for a 4K tank. A little more complicated for the calculations.

HA! Thank's for the info--yep Auburn didn't prepare me very well for welding systems but I'm pretty well versed on low pressure fluid storage and delivery systems (mainly in the 7 to 15.5 gal range). :D Hey maybe that's why I don't know this stuff.....:rolleyes:

As an aside, oddly enough I'm quite familiar with the dangers associated with high pressure air (3000+ PSI). Back in the day I was an ICBM launch officer and our launch control centers (LCC) had 4 shock isolators that suspended the LCC from the surrounding structure. The isolators used high pressure air.
 
I see the tank prices vary widely based on location. The cheapest I could find rental tanks 250CF was $30 per month per tank in my area. At those prices, the $300 per tank to purchase sounded better. Exchange for a full one is supposed to be $32, although I have not had to do that yet. If I could rent for $30/ year, would have gone that route.

I was asked to leave an Airgas location when I finally admitted I was going to use industrial gas to fill my tank. He wanted to sell me "aviation oxygen" for twice the price listed above. I said I was under the understanding that there was no difference. That location sells medical, aviation and industrial oxygen, and he admitted to getting the supply from the same source, delivered in the same tank but the aviation gas was certified for moisture content. Told him I don't care about the paperwork. He said what if the line freezes. Told him the tank was right behind me so if it freezes, so do I. Could not win that one...
 
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