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Base coat / clear coat?

TXFlyGuy

Well Known Member
As we research the paint question, I have been led in two different directions...a friend did a base / clear on his plane, and it looks awesome!

Another person told me that you do not want to do this as it is very hard to remove, and does not last very long.

Any advice here? Pros, cons?
 
We just had our plane painted last month, and the paint shop did a base of off white with 3 metallic trim stripes and clear over the trim only, the metallic required a clear on it, but the solid color base white did not.

I think a base/clear does make for a greater "shine" appearance, but adds cost and weight.

Solid color paint can be color sanded and buffed to make a fantastic finish, just take a look at what Dan Horton did with his plane. http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=60631&highlight=cut+buff

Clear and metallic paints do not take well to color sanding and buffing.

Is your plane going to be stored in a hangar or not???
 
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Hi Flyguy ( is that your real name? :D)

I painted my plane before I flew it and have a few of the inevitable chips and scratches to repair. I used a single stage polyurethane paint and it's a simple matter to sand out the area and reapply the paint to fix it. After that, I just color sand and buff it and you can't see where the bad spot was. I've never used it, but I think that would be a lot harder to do with Base/clear.
 
The plane will be kept in a hanger.

There will be a lot of detail in the paint scheme as we will replicate a military WWII theme.

I actually stole the FlyGuy thing from a fellow pilot...she is FlyGal.
 
Your mission

Both methods produce nice paint jobs. If your plane will be hangared and only used on improved surfaces then a base clear will work fine. Base clear is repairable but takes more time and effort.

If you are going to go "off roading," the likelihood of more road rash is possible. Repairs are easier.

Mike and others, I'm curious to where the myth came from that base clear is heavier? This is another internet myth that has perpetuated over time that is now spoken by many as the truth. It is not.

I was able to quantify a few years ago. Very similar 4 color paint schemes. Mine base clear added 24 lbs. Single stage 4 color scheme added 38 pounds. Base is very light and is put on very thin. You only need enough paint to give opacity. The clear brings out the colors. Clear is quite light in the scheme of painting. Further you put on 5 coats and you are sanding and buffing two coats off.

Single stage has the clear and pigments all in one can. It takes more to get coverage and you are not (generally) sanding and buffing off any of the paint. Reds and yellows are especially bad for weight gain.

Summarizing, pick the paint for your purpose.
 
I like the shine of a base coat/clear coat. I don't buy the myth of heavy paint either....IF you apply it correctly. We applied enough paint for coverage, but no more. Mine has never been buffed or polished. This is the shine that comes out of the gun when it's done right.

this was in 2011 or 12...painted originally in August 2010


here is June 2013, still turning heads & shining like new. I have a couple chips on the cowl, but not bad after 200+hrs.
 
Bc/cc doesn't add weight if done correctly, last as long as any other paint and is as easy or more easy to repair, can be wet sanded with water and a block for an extra shiny finish.

Bird
 
Base coat weighs next to nothing. When sprayed, it's layer is thin, thin, thin. The weight comes the clear coat. That's also what has your shine and durability. Clear buffs very well. It's made to. Just don't burn through it. My recommendation would be to use a single stage urethane over the whole plane. It's much easier to right the first time and to make repairs later. Clear can slightly change color over time making repairs a nightmare.
 
So base does not = single stage??

Mike and others, I'm curious to where the myth came from that base clear is heavier?

Well, in my case it comes from basic ignorance of correct paint terminology.

When I said base, I had no idea it was any different than the solid color paint (white) that the plane was done with in the first place. Appears I should have said "single stage with clear over it" is heavier.

The paint shop gave me the option of spraying the entire plane with clear after they did the color stripes, but said it was not needed on the white and would add more weight.

Always learning something here...........
 
Base coat weighs next to nothing. When sprayed, it's layer is thin, thin, thin. The weight comes the clear coat. That's also what has your shine and durability. Clear buffs very well. It's made to. Just don't burn through it. My recommendation would be to use a single stage urethane over the whole plane. It's much easier to right the first time and to make repairs later. Clear can slightly change color over time making repairs a nightmare.

Any preferences/recommendations on which single stage urethane would be the best for an amateur to use?
 
Best is such a subjective term. I used what is now a obsolete paint - Dupont Centari with a catalyst added and had good results.

Today, PPG Concept seems popular, and would be a good choice in my area because there are far more PPG suppliers locally than Dupont. IMO, it is important (or at least convenient) to have a paint supply shop nearby so you can pick up supplies after work or on Saturday morning, and also so you can have face to face discussions with the people who sell the products.
 
Gil, I used a PPG product called Concept. It's a car paint but holds up well and is easier to spray than clear coat finishes.

Ok Kyle beat me to the return key. LOL But what he said about local dealers is important.
 
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Clear coat

Quality materials, properly applied, base/clear will last. I painted my RV6 11 years ago, base/clear, Sickens products, still looks great. The key is to keep it hangared and clean.
Dick
 
Yeah but.....

Awk:eek:

Two wrong things in one thread------I think I should stay out of any painting discussions.

You can't be the first one to 10,000 posts if you don't go out on a limb and post lots of stuff:eek:

Oh.... There's a shot across the bow:)
 
Base / Clear was just recommended by a local paint shop, Flying Colors of Texas, Gainesville.

But does this two stage process hold up under the extreme temp changes and vibration that an aircraft is subjected to?
 
mine's not falling off.

I pretty sure my airplane sees better conditions than the majority of cars and trucks in Montana. My truck goes from a 55* garage to -20*F in 5 seconds also is subjected to gravel blasting, road grime, grit, salts, Etc. The base/clear on it is doing fine. The paint doesn't know it's on an airplane.
 
mine's not falling off.

I pretty sure my airplane sees better conditions than the majority of cars and trucks in Montana. My truck goes from a 55* garage to -20*F in 5 seconds also is subjected to gravel blasting, road grime, grit, salts, Etc. The base/clear on it is doing fine. The paint doesn't know it's on an airplane.

Exactly what I suspected! My 1969 VW was restored a number of years ago with Sikkens base / clear...still looks awesome! I think autos are subjected to as much or more vibration than aircraft. And you already pointed out the temp issue.
 
8 year with DuPont Imron base/clear - Arkansas

It holds up very well and I make external modifications Which I paint and the base followed by clear presents no problem materially.

But with either process (I also had a plane painted without clear coat) when you go back to buy some more of this ungodly expensive stuff they mix the paint. In California the red/silver/black no clear coat paint job we had for 16 or 17 years would occasionally required paint for repairs (landing gear fairings mostly) and after swearing it was for an airplane they could sell it to me. I never had a problem of matching, etc even the entire cowl after repairing fiberglass cracks at the end of that period.

On the RV-6A with dark blue/red/white with clear coat I never had any problem either until I made the wheel subfairing mod. I went to the same store I had been dealing with in Springdale, Arkansas and they mixed me a batch. I went home and after the mod was complete I painted the new parts. When I installed them they were a different shade of blue. I went back to the store and they were out of business. I ordered some more from an autoparts store in Fayetteville. They had to have it mixed in Little Rock but when it came it was perfect.

All of these are mixed to order and the mix operator can make a mistake. I found no difference between the two processes as far as color matching was concerned when they did it right.

Bob Axsom
 
It holds up very well and I make external modifications Which I paint and the base followed by clear presents no problem materially.

Bob Axsom

I agree with Bob. I painted my Pitts with Imron plus clear coat in 1980. Still looks great today.

On the other hand when Grady at GLO painted my purple and yellow -10, he recommended against clear coat because it can yellow with age, avgas can stain it, and it is harder to repair. In another 30 years, I should know which way is better.

Jim Berry
RV-10
 
I agree with Bob. I painted my Pitts with Imron plus clear coat in 1980. Still looks great today.

On the other hand when Grady at GLO painted my purple and yellow -10, he recommended against clear coat because it can yellow with age, avgas can stain it, and it is harder to repair. In another 30 years, I should know which way is better.

Jim Berry
RV-10

30 years...Ha! Never seen clear-coat yellow on any of my autos. Grady (GLO) is wanting $12,000+ to do my paint. But that seems to be the going price today.
 
You may want to check Gray's Aero Refinishing

We had ours painted there in Ozark, Arkansas. He did a good job with Imron and clear coat and the price was reasonable (approximately half of what they quoted me at Chino in California).

Bob Axsom
 
Years ago I had a guy come by the shop looking to have a repair done. Now the whole plane was base/clear. The thing was the repair had already been done, he just didn't like it for some reason. Upon looking at it I told him it was an awesome repair and that I had a almost zero percent chance of making it better. Not what he wanted to hear but I didn't want to lie to him and make his plane worse. A couple of years later he returns looking to get the whole plane redone. The repair now didn't look so good. The rest of the airplane, which had older paint, had yellowed just slightly. The repair panel stood out like a sore thumb. According to the log book, the paint used was top of the line stuff. Not going to say what it was. This may have been an isolated case.

A good single stage urethane, I use JetGlo myself, will look just as good as clear, will be easier and faster to apply, and will save you some money.
 
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