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Building a Budget for RV 10 Panel

rvanstory

rvanstory

Well Known Member
Just getting started on a RV10 build. I have created my budget for panel components, but wanted some experienced insight on cost to do a "Plug and Play" panel. Frequently fly IFR and plan to go with full Garmin G3X touch suite of products. (Dual 10" screens, auto pilot, GTN650, etc...) Retail cost of avionics list is about $35k.

I would like to do much of the wiring myself (because I think that will be a part of the fun of the build). I can build most anything, but am very weak in electronics.

It's way too early for me to get a actual bid, so was hoping someone could give me their "back of the napkin" advice for budgeting the $'s for a plug and play panel.

I have no ideal if the cost would be $1k or $30k for getting an expert to do it for me. Any insight would be appreciated!

Also any general advice related to trying to tackle this part of the build myself would be appreciated. (pay someone else, or it's doable on your own)
 
Welcome!

Welcome aboard! Official welcome will follow. This forum is awesome.
Interesting question. Can't give you an answer (still busy building my tail)... But I too look forward to do some wiring. I think it will be fun.
 
rvanstory said:
Just getting started on a RV10 build. I have created my budget for panel components, but wanted some experienced insight on cost to do a "Plug and Play" panel. Frequently fly IFR and plan to go with full Garmin G3X touch suite of products. (Dual 10" screens, auto pilot, GTN650, etc...) Retail cost of avionics list is about $35k.

I would like to do much of the wiring myself (because I think that will be a part of the fun of the build). I can build most anything, but am very weak in electronics.

It's way too early for me to get a actual bid, so was hoping someone could give me their "back of the napkin" advice for budgeting the $'s for a plug and play panel.

I have no ideal if the cost would be $1k or $30k for getting an expert to do it for me. Any insight would be appreciated!

Also any general advice related to trying to tackle this part of the build myself would be appreciated. (pay someone else, or it's doable on your own)
Click to expand...

Do it on your own. The only issue will be having your avionics vendor of choice provide a harness for the GTN-650 (I did my own harness, but I think most vendors will not sell you the GTN-650 without one - make sure they provide a lead for all serial connections). Products like the Dynon SkyView and the G3X require no electronic skills. You just need to learn how to make crimp connectors. Once you have the proper tool this too is easy: http://www.steinair.com/product/4-way-indent-crimper/

I can tell you I helped an RV-14 builder with a "plug and play" panel. The rework I had to do was twice that if I just started with a piece of blank aluminum.

Once you start to get prices for a nice shiny panel, you might have a different view. Send me your email in a PM and I'll send a detailed RV-10 cost spreadsheet you can use for reference.

I've done several panels and panel updates. Doing the panel yourself will provide a wealth of knowledge for how stuff works, and a firm foundation when you do your panel updates (typically after the first 18 months or so you find something that is not in the right position, a new switch layout, etc.).

Carl
 
Welcome to VAF!

Randy, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D

You are going to have a lot of questions when wiring the panel, so make notes and start off by reading Bob Nuckols book, Aeroelectric Connection. http://aeroelectric.com/

I will second Stein as a resource that you will be glad you dealt with. They can do as much or as little as you want toward your panel------built the entire thing, provide a wiring loom, or simply a schematic drawing.

I like having Stein make a schematic for complicated stuff, I get 3 copies and use one to make notes/changes/ideas etc on as I am building, one for the final "as built" drawing with any changer or additions, and just keep one as a spare.

Good luck, it is not that hard to do if you plan things out, and take your time.
 
Wiring

The actual wiring is not difficult. The hardest part is getting everything drawn out. Components talk to each other and you have to figure out where each pin on each connector goes for all your components. You can do this by reviewing the manual for each component and trying to draw it out, but even if you went with all Garmin stuff, sometimes the naming conventions for pins change between manuals so it can be a giant mess.

If you really want to do it yourself, I would recommend at least getting a good wiring diagram from SteinAir. Then all you have to worry about is making sure everything is mechanically wired up correctly. This is where you get the most bang for your buck in terms of time/frustration savings.

You can always have them do more if you want. Laser cut panel, wire harnesses, etc.
 
Stein can give you a quick and dirty panel quote. Then you can spend some time going through it and figuring out what everything is and if you actually need or want each certain pieces of equipment. I used his quote as a basis to a few of my electrical panel drawings, really helped out.
 
As you said, it's too early to spend money. But it's fun to think about. I second Carl's advice: it's just one wire at a time.
Something to think about: almost everything is connected these days via digital lines following one of many RS-232 standards. Most avionics will have pairs of ports (input/output). Usually the input and output can go to different devices but only if they both run at the same speed. You need to match up the requirements of all interconnected boxes, and then make sure you have enough input/output ports on your selected avionics. Draw up an interconnection schematic.
 
Perfect advice! I didn't even think about hiring the schematic part out, then doing the wiring myself. This option should fit me nicely. It really was the schematic part that was giving me the most heartburn. If an expert can do this part for me, it would seem that crimping wires won't be that technically challenging for an electronics newbie.

Thanks for all the feedback and "welcome aboards". I'm looking forward to delivery of my tail kit on Wednesday. Today is finish up day for tool organization and shop set up. Can't wait to get started!!

:)
 
Mike S said:
Randy, welcome aboard the good ship VAF:D


I will second Stein as a resource that you will be glad you dealt with. They can do as much or as little as you want toward your panel------built the entire thing, provide a wiring loom, or simply a schematic drawing.

I like having Stein make a schematic for complicated stuff, I get 3 copies and use one to make notes/changes/ideas etc on as I am building, one for the final "as built" drawing with any changer or additions, and just keep one as a spare.

.
Click to expand...

Wow, I did not ever think about this as an option. I did my RV8 with Fast Stack and all other wiring myself and I really wish I had better schematics than my Excel spreadsheet. I just ordered my -10 fuselage (due mid march) and have just started thinking about the wiring. Now I have another great idea, thanks...! How does the pricing work on having someone provide Schematics, hourly basis or flat rate?
 
Stein gets my vote (and a bunch of my money)

I've only had limited contact with Stein so far, but I expect he will reach out to you like he did to me - simply on the basis of your post here. I was quite impressed. That, plus the recommendation of several of my neighbors - we have ordered our RV-7A panel from him.

I also visited the "other" highly recommended panel builder, flew out there and spent several hours asking many questions and doing a preliminary panel design. I never heard back from them at all. This other firm wanted a bunch of money up front simply to be put on their waiting list. I was impressed with the quality of their work, but not so much for their customer service.

Single data point I know, but Stein has my business on the RV-7 and most likely for the RV-10 we are also building.
 
Building your panel

Howdy,
I had Stein build my panel and it was very complete. I added a Aero Sport panel and a CO monitor. My GPS is a GNT750. All Garmin G3X touch 10" with XM also. He painted the panel with 2 different colors that matches my interior and shipped it to me. This process took about 3 months. Every wire is labeled and sized appropriately. This was the best money I spent in my opinion.

I wish I could show you the back side of the panel. It is a real work of art. I also have not had many questions, but when I did, Stein picks up, or I can speak with Mike who actually did my wiring. It is very comforting to know they are there.

For me it would be a large learning curve..This takes a fare amount of engineering and understanding of how all these components communicate with each other. There is still a lot of work to do when the panel arrives. It will be complete soon and it has been a fun journey!!!

They are very easy to work with. You can buy the equipment or he will. Your choice. I did get another bid and he was slightly cheaper. I was north of $50,000.That will get you close, but remember that was complete. Hope this helps.

Good Luck
 
Thank you for sharing your cost number with me. That helps a lot! Gives me some idea of cost associated for paying a pro to do it for me.

Appreciate all the help and responses!!! What a great community of folks!
 
Trying a new tip on posting pics. So, this has nothing to do with my panel question, just a "test message" to see if I can post a pic correctly sized.

Here's a pic of the tools in my garage that are "ready and waiting" for tail kit delivery today!

40J2pRjf_v3Ebs7__lSQcYR-_-jzEe9Qi0H3YVY2x-ftMwBA-y7cs8ZlV3cnae8lLR2DECs18E1-Zq6huFNJziKnsdDyut153Xrl6k34QqgS9gYN_8StiNlOV60J9wQ8qcKHc_Ce3EVnyPeubLkBZhwaYk2Vzk7mMv9Y2OML3tL6hBwQuqdH4xrJJ8tvQsjo62lfXbistRgRQLU8vBX_zL5txElAxDBHt2DTrTtLZxFDV0X1tsEVVFrW7tooL7xHGBRCepP4UFiYpS13L_A4ZS2ona6Vp3YslSasBAJry1eap7PU4rmvkzn_ac7XmwKJ0ErFzfW2X4ggBK422b1iFbusD-2hW2bfTRT50mYHUU3o3-6ZC0EoDz3OAmIda375PYG3QQX-L5BvKYLRPp47zkYWESL_YFWnwOSB_DUBJu0XtRTBr-azFVkVK3L-3z-OTJGKEcFiRthtt4LvzfawG3l78Fj-MRz8XR-kJYwZJEPDqD2xi722g1lciobpZ04HIECbYPpRNesUDUg42eRYZjKSnhIzk0FtEEdTr4pkPKM3ADLAIYvNrgRKcKxenuYqa0OzNcZnyK767EmTf9Lae90ahLwj0KiAcga9CWjZTZHhPlcrln0dvXUJOhb6u7yhkG0AAPy6ME0meBwNxunJExs66UtBuNL4GLonU15UwQ=w800-no
 
rvanstory said:
Trying a new tip on posting pics. So, this has nothing to do with my panel question, just a "test message" to see if I can post a pic correctly sized.

Here's a pic of the tools in my garage that are "ready and waiting" for tail kit delivery today!
Click to expand...


No... I think you're just showing off. You want to make us all look bad because you're setup looks so awesome! :D

I could only hope that someday, my mess I call my "shop" looks half as nice!

Congrats!
 
I bought my 650 on an Oshkosh deal, everything elese went through Stein. Full panel build and wire. 2G3X, TT AP, GRT Mini, (single ADHRs) all the lights and dodads. I bought my switches direct from Aerosport, I supplied the fuse blocks , but Stein supplied the CBs,painted labeled, the works... $25k... ad the $9k for the 650 and there you go. Panel was shipped complete, ready to plug in....

I had pre-purchased a few things like the engine harness, the magnetometer, etc. so that was probably a few k... even though I would have been comfortable doing it myself, I was trying to save time. I think the actual charge for doing all the work was under $5k. Worth it in my book. I was able to keep plugging away on other things. If I had the time, I would do it myself. It gives you the opportunity to make the wire runs even cleaner.
 
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I could only hope that someday, my mess I call my "shop" looks half as nice!
Click to expand...

I'll send another pic about 30 minutes after the kit arrives. Anyone can START looking organized, once work begins, it'll look like #!@* in this space. :)

I think the actual charge for doing all the work was under $5k.
Click to expand...

Very good info! That makes the decision a little harder. I'll be talking to Stein soon to get their thoughts. Thanks for sharing your experience with me.
 
I would not worry about electronics and wait as long as possible before making that investment. I had my perfect Garmin panel planned before Sun n Fun and Oshkosh last year. At SnF Garmin introduced the G5 (Before this I had another manufacturer as my back up AI). Then at Osh, they introduced the 45R transponder/ADSB. Fortunately I had not fully commited and was able to update to these systems. So until this years airshow events, at least I can say I have the latest and greatest panel. Even though I have 5 or 6 months build time to go before Im flying. Second, unless you are one of the blessed and very talented people who fully understand the foreign world of electronics, Im not, then have the pros do it. I had the Stein folks do mine. A friend had Aerotronics do his, we were both very happy. With me, every pin connection I would have done, would have been a potential failure point. So it was worth the extra money.
 
Re:panel build

Howdy again,
Also included was "Vertical Power" unit. Stein charged $7800 for his services which did include painting all panel and arm rest components, and a beautiful job they did
 
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