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Need some advice on the Reiff system

LettersFromFlyoverCountry

Well Known Member
I'm installing a standard Reiff Preheat System on an IO-360 M1B in my 7A.

I'm curious what route people with similar installations use for the wiring harness if they have both a Lightspeed coil set just forward of the baffle, AND a fuel injector spider sitting right between the #4 cylinder and the top of the case, along which the wiring harness is to run.

preheat_2.jpg


I took the Lightspeed coils off for elbow room and it looks like I'll have to take a sharp left turn (as it snakes aft) and out the baffle in order to avoid the coils. I'm still not real thrilled about the proximity to the stainless lines from the fuel spider.

I also note that the #4 cylinder band is far too short to make it up to the harness connection because the spider is in the way and it also has to get clamped to one of the rods for support. I'll have to find out if he sells extensions.

Overall, I can't say this is the best fitting gizmo I've ever seen.

Who's pulled this off in this configuration. Pictures, please!
 
Bob, I've got that system (cylinder bands plus sump pads) on mine, but the spider is behind #1 on mine. I sent you some pictures, maybe they'll help.

Maybe you can put the harness on such that #4 becomes #1?
 
Hi Bob - I've put 2 of these on and love them. Never had a fit issue. Here are 2 pics of one on an IO-360 (200 HP). Hope it helps.

100_0248.jpg

100_0242.jpg
 
My C150 has the Reiff preheat bands and several wires were showing wear around sharp corners because there's no good way to secure the wires. Some strategically placed beads of red RTV to bond the wires to the engine case took care of the problem.
 
Dave. It doesn't look like you have two big roadblocks I have. One is the Lightspeed coils sitting just in front of the center bracket support for the rear baffle.

Just curious, though, what fits in those two vertical rectangular cutouts on your side baffles?
 
Dave. It doesn't look like you have two big roadblocks I have. One is the Lightspeed coils sitting just in front of the center bracket support for the rear baffle.

Just curious, though, what fits in those two vertical rectangular cutouts on your side baffles?
You're right Bob. This isn't an RV... it's a Beech Super III. The cutouts are for part of the upper cowl structure.

Stick with it - the Reiff is well worth the effort. Its nice pulling the plane out, oil at 100 degrees, cylinders almost that, and starting on the first blade.
 
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Bob,

I have 5 or 6 good pics of how I ran the Reiff wires, including how I went around the Lightspeed coils. Send me a PM with an email address and I'll send you all the pics. And BTW, the Reiff sysytem is worth its weight in gold this winter ... not to mention the cell-phone-activated relay. :D The Reiff raises my oil temp about 10F per hour and the cyl heads a bit less than that ( up to a point, of course.)
 
I wonder how long it'll take for that epoxy to cure in an unheated hangar. :(
What I did was remove all paint under the heater. Scuff and clean both surfaces, and then get it clamped in position. I used a rachet strap around the engine, and a socket to hold it tightly in place. You really want it tight. I may have plugged it in at one point to generate some heat to get it to cure.
 
Yes, I'm looking forward to getting into the air again. I wonder how long it'll take for that epoxy to cure in an unheated hangar. :(

I'm wondering that myself. The Reif instructions imply they want 70 degrees overnight for curing. I can get the hangar to 70 degrees while I'm there, but I'm certainly not going to let the kerosene heater run while in away.

I'd be interested in hearing other's experiences, especially yours Bob since you are a couple weeks ahead of me in the Reiff installation. I even wondered if it would be beneficial to turn the heater on to assist with curing.

Bob
 
Light bulb

I used a 500W halogen shop light. Could prob even use a 100W regular, old fashioned light bulb.

We plastic airplane builders use lights to cure epoxy all the time!

Gordon

N144GP
Lancair ES - Phase 1
 
I could MAYBE get the hangar to 70 if I set it on fire. :D

I guess the feedback I'm looking for is how many days did it take to cure at the freezing temp in the hangar. Will it ever cure properly at below freezing temps?

Although it's forecasted to get back up to the 60s here this weekend. It may be a good time to change priorities and install the sump heater pad while it's warmer for a few days. :rolleyes:

I have a 130k btu kerosene heater that does a rather nice job of heating the hangar if you don't mind the noise. It costs me about a gallon an hour to run. I just don't trust it enough to run unattended.

bob
 
I used a 500W halogen shop light. Could prob even use a 100W regular, old fashioned light bulb.

We plastic airplane builders use lights to cure epoxy all the time!

Gordon

N144GP
Lancair ES - Phase 1

What's the secret to getting those bulbs to last? I seem to get just a few hours over a couple week period of time before the ends crumble. I assume that they just don't like the quick heat up from freezing temps.

bob
 
I've taken to a 75 watt lightbulb just below the pad. Also connecting the heater element for a few minutes twice a day just to see if the epoxy softens up. Yep. The test continues.
 
What's the secret to getting those bulbs to last? I seem to get just a few hours over a couple week period of time before the ends crumble.
bob

For sure, for sure. I have the same problem; thought I was the only one. The good news? You can buy replacement elements cheap at HF.
 
no HF

The only problems I have had with halogen bulbs is the ones I got at HF. Go to Lowes and buy the name brand ones. They last a long time and the ends don't crumble.

I generally like HF, but not good for all things.

Gordon
 
The only problems I have had with halogen bulbs is the ones I got at HF. Go to Lowes and buy the name brand ones. They last a long time and the ends don't crumble.

I generally like HF, but not good for all things.

Gordon


Sorry for the thread drift......

I don't think it matters. Feit, Phillips, GE, they all seem to be about the same. Some last and some fail quickly. Doesn't seem to be driven by brand.

I ended up taking all mine down and replacing with fluorescents. At least I'm no longer climbing up on a ladder anymore to replace. Much easier on a tripod.

bob
 
Sorry for the thread drift......

Hey, there's nothing else to do while we wait for the epoxy to cure. :D

Also, I have a large collection of Halogen bulbs if anyone wants some. They're leftovers from buying them off the shelf only to find they don't fit my Craftsman halogen lamp. It was a series of gambles to avoid driving all the way into town to the Sears story to get the right one.
 
With the forecast calling for 69 degrees on Saturday, I think I'm going to delay mounting the tail feathers (at least for a day) and epoxy the heat pad onto the sump. It's suppose to be back in the 30s next week, so I figured I would take advantage of the opportunity. Hopefully I can get the paint off quickly so this doesn't turned into an all day ordeal.

bob
 
Getting the paint off was painless. I was bracing for a long effort, according to people who've done this before. I brushed on some paint remover, watched a quarter of the NFL playoff game, scraped it off with a putty knife, repeated. Wiped with acetone, rinsed with water. Done.
 
With the forecast calling for 69 degrees on Saturday, I think I'm going to delay mounting the tail feathers

Here's a new data point for you , Bob. I just stopped at the hangar. In the last day or so it's been in the 20s at night and 30s during the day. Last night I plugged in the bands that are on the cylinders. The instructions have you button up the cowl and put a blanket over it, but, of course, I have the bottom cowl off, so I just placed the top of the cowl on and left it at that.

I just stopped at the hangar on my way in to work and the oil temp as measured by the GRT engine monitor said 65, the sump was warm (or at least not cold) and the epoxy appears much harder than last night.

I'll give it another day or two but I'll probably run some JB weld along the edges tonight. I think that just plugging in the cylinder band strips will do the trick for you and prevent you from wasting a perfectly warm day.
 
I'm installing a standard Reiff Preheat System on an IO-360 M1B in my 7A.

I'm curious what route people with similar installations use for the wiring harness if they have both a Lightspeed coil set just forward of the baffle, AND a fuel injector spider sitting right between the #4 cylinder and the top of the case, along which the wiring harness is to run.

preheat_2.jpg


I took the Lightspeed coils off for elbow room and it looks like I'll have to take a sharp left turn (as it snakes aft) and out the baffle in order to avoid the coils. I'm still not real thrilled about the proximity to the stainless lines from the fuel spider.

I also note that the #4 cylinder band is far too short to make it up to the harness connection because the spider is in the way and it also has to get clamped to one of the rods for support. I'll have to find out if he sells extensions.

Overall, I can't say this is the best fitting gizmo I've ever seen.

Who's pulled this off in this configuration. Pictures, please!


I think Bob has been taken care of but I got a tip about this thread and thought I'd address some of the issues he and others raised.

Regarding fit of the harness, for cost control reasons my approach is to make one harness that will be a good all around fit for most of the engines. There will be some cases where it is not "ideal" or may not fit exactly like the aircraft owner would like it and he will have to make an adjustment in routing, etc. If that results in a heater lead not reaching the harness connector, we do stock 6" extensions as stated in the Installation Instructions... "Plug each cylinder heater into a harness connector... 6” extensions are available ($5 each) if any of the heater leads will not reach the harness. "

It is interesting to note that in 2012 we shipped 4778 heating elements, and only 62 of the 6" extensions. That tells me that fitting problems are not very widespread.
 
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Yes, I'm looking forward to getting into the air again. I wonder how long it'll take for that epoxy to cure in an unheated hangar. :(

Per Installation Instructions...

5) Proper curing is critical. Aremco cures in 24-48 hrs at 75o F. Temps cooler than that will inhibit curing. For cold weather installations, start with the engine warm or use other means to warm the sump. If you have our cylinder heaters installed you can cover the engine with a blanket and plug in the cylinder heaters overnight to warm the engine and sump.​

Note the entire hangar does not need to be warm. Just the epoxy. You can do that anyway you want. Most people just put a blanket over the engine to "tent" it and use a space heater, heat lamp, etc.

I would prefer that they be installed in summer, but of course that usually doesn't happen.

I would also prefer to use an adhesive that meets all the requirements of the application, AND will cure quickly in any ambient temp. But I haven't found it yet.
 
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I'm wondering that myself. The Reif instructions imply they want 70 degrees overnight for curing. I can get the hangar to 70 degrees while I'm there, but I'm certainly not going to let the kerosene heater run while in away.

I'd be interested in hearing other's experiences, especially yours Bob since you are a couple weeks ahead of me in the Reiff installation. I even wondered if it would be beneficial to turn the heater on to assist with curing.

Bob

The instructions do not "imply" any such thing. They specifically state:

5) Proper curing is critical. Aremco cures in 24-48 hrs at 75o F. Temps cooler than that will inhibit curing.​

Again, the hangar temp is irrelevant.
 
What I did was remove all paint under the heater. Scuff and clean both surfaces, and then get it clamped in position. I used a rachet strap around the engine, and a socket to hold it tightly in place. You really want it tight. I may have plugged it in at one point to generate some heat to get it to cure.

Technically plugging in the heater to heat cure the Aremco 568 epoxy is permissable. However I have found in practice that the initial reaction of the epoxy to the heat is that the paste quickly thins more fluid and it runs out from under the heating element, especially if mounted on a vertical surface. That's bad. So we specify the alternate "room temperature cure" of 75F for 24-48 hrs.
 
I guess the feedback I'm looking for is how many days did it take to cure at the freezing temp in the hangar. Will it ever cure properly at below freezing temps?

Although it's forecasted to get back up to the 60s here this weekend. It may be a good time to change priorities and install the sump heater pad while it's warmer for a few days. :rolleyes:

I have a 130k btu kerosene heater that does a rather nice job of heating the hangar if you don't mind the noise. It costs me about a gallon an hour to run. I just don't trust it enough to run unattended.

bob

No, it will probably never cure at below freezing temps.
 
With the forecast calling for 69 degrees on Saturday, I think I'm going to delay mounting the tail feathers (at least for a day) and epoxy the heat pad onto the sump. It's suppose to be back in the 30s next week, so I figured I would take advantage of the opportunity. Hopefully I can get the paint off quickly so this doesn't turned into an all day ordeal.

bob

Paint removal from the sump is critical but does not need to be the ordeal that some folks make it.

This is a requirement of every epoxy I've ever studied. It bonds better to metal than to paint. I trace the heating element with a Sharpie, then apply a jell type paint remover inside the line. Wipe on, wait a few minutes, wipe off, repeat 1 or 2 more times, clean with alcohol... job is done.

We don't hear a lot of cases where the heating element does not stay bonded, but almost everytime we do the installer had decided it wasn't necessary to follow that step in the instructions.
 
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Bob,
Would it be acceptable when it's cold to just go ahead and plug the sump heater in and allow its heat to cure the epoxy? This was mentioned in an earlier post but no one commented IIRC.
 
Bob,
Would it be acceptable when it's cold to just go ahead and plug the sump heater in and allow its heat to cure the epoxy? This was mentioned in an earlier post but no one commented IIRC.

Todd,

Bob R. answered the question earlier in the thread. He did suggest that if you have the cylinder heaters to use those and a blanket to assist in keeping the temps up. I'm going to take advantage of the heat wave this weekend to get this installed on Saturday.

bob


Technically plugging in the heater to heat cure the Aremco 568 epoxy is permissable. However I have found in practice that the initial reaction of the epoxy to the heat is that the paste quickly thins more fluid and it runs out from under the heating element, especially if mounted on a vertical surface. That's bad. So we specify the alternate "room temperature cure" of 75F for 24-48 hrs.
 
I did this in VERY short bursts, however I did not do this as a technique because with uncured epoxy, the heat will soften the epoxy and what with gravity and all, it didn't seem like a good idea.
 
It is interesting to note that in 2012 we shipped 4778 heating elements, and only 62 of the 6" extensions. That tells me that fitting problems are not very widespread.

I doubt they are, especially given Mattituck's demise.

It's interesting to see all the various engine configurations out there, even among the same engine. For example, other baffle installations don't have the triangle brace forward of the center of the rear baffle that mine does . That, of course, precludes any snaking of the harness all the way to the center.

Throw in the Lightspeed cubes and the spider and you're just going to have to do what you have to do -- pretty much come up with another plan on your own.

I ended up ordering two extensions, even though at the moment I think I only need one. I want the flexibility of coming up with a new routing plan if the one I *think* will work doesn't.

Plus, the woman on the phone -- I think her name is Debby -- was delightful.

It's been a bigger production than I thought -- I'm waiting for Adel clamps (I think I have 10 pounds of Adel clamps in my engine installation) and heat resistant grommets for the hole in the rear baffle (diameter to be determined) before proceeding.

I think Bob's directions are fine and they've helped me to this point. My area of concern has been proper securing of all components of the system and things in its path from chafing, which is why I'm taking my time in evaluating proper routing and securing of the product.

But, this product unquestionably is perfect for what I'm trying to do with the engine, which is baby it and have it live in the lifestyle to which it's become accustomed.

It's a pricey product, but as I pointed out in another thread, this isn't the area of the plane where I'm going to go all cheap.

By the way, yes, it would make more sense to install this in the summer. It would also make more sense to install it before you complete your baffle system when you have slightly easier access. And when I build that next plane, all this education is really going to pay off!
 
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Just about done. Here's the solution:

preheat_sat_12.jpg


I'm awaiting a 6" extension, which I'll use on the #4 cylinder. I came in from the baffle, so the plug will be accessible by the oil fill door. And I took it forward to use up the length of the cord, then doubled back along the harness to provide extra support and strength.

As usual, I strongly supported the company that makes Adel clamps.;)
 
Orientation of the oil sump heating pads

I called Reiff last week because I wanted to install the oil sump heater pads and the temps at night were going down into the low 60's...did that hurt the cure or just slow it down The answer was that it just slows it down.

Question for everyone who installed the oil sump heating pads:

Did everyone epoxy the pads on with the wire leads pointing aft?

I was thinking of pointing them forward and coming through the inlet cooling ramp inboard where the heater plug lives. Less chance of fouling the engine controls but there's a length of wire from the pads to the ramp that is unsupported.
 
Question for everyone who installed the oil sump heating pads:

Did everyone epoxy the pads on with the wire leads pointing aft?

I ran them aft to the center. Not thinking too deeply here, but spreading the wires might make it difficult to connect to the harness. Bob has this laid out pretty darn carefully, I was impressed (FWIW). I only made one mod, that was to shorten the harness a little to avoid a loop. Commercial name brand terminal pins were used, Bob frowned at me as they were not proven. I said they are the same pins -he said "how do you know?". I like Bob, valid point.
 
WiFi in metal hangar building

Any tech guys out in VAF world that speak I.T. well enough to help me choose equipment well enough for getting WiFi to a group of metal hangars? There is hardwired internet at an airport maintenance building elevated about 1000' feet from my hangar which happens to be the furthest away. It is line of sight from my hangar roof and I don't mind putting up some sort of small antenna. I think I can get other hangar owners to chip in on this project. I'd sure like to use WiFi to pre-heat my engine and check weather and file flight plans online. Recommendations?
 
If you can mount something on the maintenance shed and have reasonable line of sight, a pair of Ubiquiti radios (look at the Nanobeams) will easily make the hop. Microtik has similar gear, too. Both used all the time in broadcast STL and rural Wifi ISP settings. Throw a cheap wifi router/access point in the hangar for your devices to connect to, or get a fancier outdoor access point radio and mount on the hangar to share with your neighbors too.
 
I ran them aft to the center. Not thinking too deeply here, but spreading the wires might make it difficult to connect to the harness. Bob has this laid out pretty darn carefully, I was impressed (FWIW). I only made one mod, that was to shorten the harness a little to avoid a loop. Commercial name brand terminal pins were used, Bob frowned at me as they were not proven. I said they are the same pins -he said "how do you know?". I like Bob, valid point.

I test fit it. Using the Y adapter to connect the 2 pads to the cable works fine - the harness can be connected easily with slack to spare.

It's just that when I hold the pads up to the sump with the leads pointing aft, they run over the exhausts and past the engine controls which is a little worrisome to me. Plus there's a length of lead from the pads including the Y adapter that is unsupported. So I was just wondering if anyone had done it differently.
 
Any tech guys out in VAF world that speak I.T. well enough to help me choose equipment well enough for getting WiFi to a group of metal hangars? There is hardwired internet at an airport maintenance building elevated about 1000' feet from my hangar which happens to be the furthest away. It is line of sight from my hangar roof and I don't mind putting up some sort of small antenna. I think I can get other hangar owners to chip in on this project. I'd sure like to use WiFi to pre-heat my engine and check weather and file flight plans online. Recommendations?

PM sent. I posted what you need in another thread where you asked the same question..
 
Oil sump heating pad and throttle linkage

As I look where one of the oil sump heating pads should be epoxied, I see it's outboard of and next to the throttle linkage.

I can dream up all sorts of nightmare scenarios if I want to. Any concerns about the pad dislodging from the sump and fouling the throttle linkage? I tried to come up with a solution that would push the pad away from the linkage if it dropped from the sump, but nothing came to mind that added to safety.
 
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