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Quick build fuselage factory mistake?

RandyAB

Well Known Member
I'm going through the quickbuild fuselage step by step in the instructions checking the assembly. Today I noticed that the aft holes in the mid fuselage bottom skin were drilled and dimpled at the factory. The plans explicitly state to leave these holes alone until the tailcone is assembled in section 32. :mad: Has anybody else experienced this and is this going to be a problem?? I wouldn't worry about it so much other than the fact that the joint between the fuse and the tailcone is kind of a critical one. Thoughts?
 
Is the problem just on the flat skin(s) or does it extend around the curves and up the sides? If it is just on the flat portion, no problem at all. If it goes up the sides, it'll be a little more work, but should be manageable.
 
Is the problem just on the flat skin(s) or does it extend around the curves and up the sides? If it is just on the flat portion, no problem at all. If it goes up the sides, it'll be a little more work, but should be manageable.

Just the bottom skin.
 
I think you are referring to the last 2 rows of rivets on p26-8, Figure 1. I just checked my QB Fuselage this morning and they are not dimpled.

My Fuselage was shipped out the same day as yours so it looks like there are differences for each one built. I found a number of other differences compared to the plans that I?m working with Van?s on. I?ll post them in a couple days after I get feedback from Vans.
 
Keep checking!

It is NOT UNCOMMON to find mistakes/omissions in QB kits.
Assume NOTHING!
 
I think you are referring to the last 2 rows of rivets on p26-8, Figure 1. I just checked my QB Fuselage this morning and they are not dimpled.

My Fuselage was shipped out the same day as yours so it looks like there are differences for each one built. I found a number of other differences compared to the plans that I’m working with Van’s on. I’ll post them in a couple days after I get feedback from Vans.

Thanks for looking Scott. I'm very interested in the variances that you found. I'd like to check mine.
 
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It is NOT UNCOMMON to find mistakes/omissions in QB kits.
Assume NOTHING!

Truthfully I'm perturbed to find such a basic error. I'm not sure what assumptions you are referring to. What I did assume was that they were experienced builders and would build it per plans. :(
 
Truthfully I'm perturbed to find such a basic error. I'm not sure what assumptions you are referring to. What I did assume was that they were experienced builders and would build it per plans. :(

I can absolutely see how it would happen. Guy starts dimpling a sheet, forgets to stop when he needs to.

I've done similar things myself.
 
Perturbed!

Randy,
I was VERY perturbed to find mistakes, for I, too assumed they were pros that would 'take care of me', and deliver a "finished" product. Not only were there some omissions and mistakes, I was extrememly frustrated that their assumption that I would paint my plane resulted in gross scratches all over the parts. They deburred rivet holes with sandpaper!
:mad:
 
I can absolutely see how it would happen. Guy starts dimpling a sheet, forgets to stop when he needs to.

I've done similar things myself.

I can see how it can happen too if you don't tape over the holes that are to be left untouched. The simple solution is to use the tape.....
 
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Mine hasn't had any big mistakes (so far, knock on wood), many cosmetic issues. If you're expecting a pristine perfect fuse or wing don't order the QB. However, I'm painting, and the QB is taking about a year off my build time.
 
Mine hasn't had any big mistakes (so far, knock on wood), many cosmetic issues. If you're expecting a pristine perfect fuse or wing don't order the QB. However, I'm painting, and the QB is taking about a year off my build time.

Cosmetic blemishes are one thing. Mine are not perfect but nothing I can't live with, especially given that I'm going to paint. Build errors are whole different issue though. I expect it to be built exactly to plans. I don't think that is unreasonable.
 
For what you pay for the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit, I?m not surprised by the issues you all are seeing. It?s a cost-benefit thing. They could be much more accurate and professional, but that would cost a lot more. They are a production shop, not a custom shop. It?s all about quantity with fairly good quality, not all about quality with fairly good quantity.

The RV-10 kit is so accurately prepunched that you can go ahead and drill, deburr and dimple the matching holes for the ones already dimpled and move on. Now, if the dimpled holes weren?t drilled to full size before being dimpled, that?s a serious problem as that can lead to cracking. I would inspect closely first.
 
Now, if the dimpled holes weren?t drilled to full size before being dimpled, that?s a serious problem as that can lead to cracking. I would inspect closely first.

Yes, I'm concerned about that. I had a look and there is no gross cracking in the dimples at this point for what it is worth.
 
I am/was thinking about going either quickbuild wing or quickbuild wing and fuse. This thread has me strongly questioning the quickbuild route. I don't mind a few cosmetic blemishes as I plan to paint. But I can't tolerate poorly formed dimples, holes in the wrong places or dimples with cracks.

I really like building, but due to my age, think that a quickbuild may be the way to go. (I'm just about finished with the -14 emp).

Can anybody be more specific with regard to quality issues?
 
QB

As I posted earlier, I have the QB wings and fuselage. There were a couple of minor issues but the overall quality was fine. I would not hesitate to do the QB again...

No one has built a perfect airplane...ever.
 
I have been in this game for a long time and I can say with a great deal of confidence, "on average the quality of a finished aircraft, using quick built assemblies, is much better then most first time builders actually achieve"
Of course serious errors in a quick build structure are not acceptable. Most of the errors that have been discussed in this thread are things that can be worked around without a lot of time or effort. If you want a polished perfect aircraft, build it all yourself, and allow for years of added time.
Build on!
 
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I am/was thinking about going either quickbuild wing or quickbuild wing and fuse. This thread has me strongly questioning the quickbuild route. I don't mind a few cosmetic blemishes as I plan to paint. But I can't tolerate poorly formed dimples, holes in the wrong places or dimples with cracks.

I really like building, but due to my age, think that a quickbuild may be the way to go. (I'm just about finished with the -14 emp).

Can anybody be more specific with regard to quality issues?

It appears to me that several QB wings have tanks that leak. You are supposed to check the tanks, but it seems that leaking tanks still prevail. As a buyer, I've always thought that a plane with QB wings guaranteed quality construction. Now I'm not so sure that there is a definite advantage to have the work done in the P.I.

~Marc
 
I expected a pristine and perfect fuse and wings .. what I got was a good quality fuse and wings with some minor cosmetic issues ..

My expectations were too high, however, like others suggested, the fuse and wings are built better than I could have and it saved me a year.

Buy with confidence! (and use Partain Trading Company + Stewart Transport shipping option and not a carrier service)
 
I've been pleased with the workmanship and quality on my RV-10 QB wings and fuselage. Yes, there were a couple of places where rivets had been installed prematurely that I had to drill out, but overall my experience has been very good. I'm very happy I went with the QB and based on my experience would recommend it to others.
 
Of course serious errors in a quick build structure are not acceptable. Most of the errors that have been discussed in this thread are things that can be worked around without a lot of time or effort. If you want a polished perfect aircraft, build it all yourself, and allow for years of added time.
Build on!

Thanks for chiming in Tom. I'm interested in what you consider serious errors in quickbuild structure? I'm most concerned about holes that have been dimpled without having been match drilled first since the match drilling of those particular holes doesn't occur until the tailcone is mated to the fuse. As Jesse pointed out, dimpling undersized holes may lead to cracking in the future.
 
FWIW, I have Q/B wings that have had fuel in them for four years and 380 ish hours and have never leaked.
 
I don't mind a few cosmetic blemishes as I plan to paint. But I can't tolerate poorly formed dimples, holes in the wrong places or dimples with cracks.

I may have missed it but I don't recall a mention of any of those things in this thread.

Van's has always been up front with customers inquiring about the quick build kits... that they are production line quality, not custom built, and that if a customer is striving to build a Lindy or grand champion winner it may not be the best choice.
It will provide you with major assemblies that will save you a lot of build time and be constructed to a higher quality than probably 90+% of first time builders are capable of doing.
 
I'm building an RV-3b standard build (I lay-out, drill and dimple everything myself) and a friend is building a QB -10 nearby. So I've had a chance to compare the quality.

The QB is very good. I can do as well but I have to be on my game to do it. Overall, his QB stuff is better.

The big difference was that his came with so many parts built. I spent some time on the ailerons. His were faster: he saw them on the inventory and checked them off. Ah, man....

Dave
 
I may have missed it but I don't recall a mention of any of those things in this thread.

Van's has always been up front with customers inquiring about the quick build kits... that they are production line quality, not custom built, and that if a customer is striving to build a Lindy or grand champion winner it may not be the best choice.
It will provide you with major assemblies that will save you a lot of build time and be constructed to a higher quality than probably 90+% of first time builders are capable of doing.

Scott, what do you think of holes that are dimpled before they are match drilled? Any change of problems with those holes later? If so, is it potentially a safety issue or big fix later on down the road? I'm not striving for awards but I am striving for a safe, well built aircraft.

I'm not sure why some steps seem to be missed over and over. The angles at the baggage door that attach to the undersurface of the upper longeron need to be trimmed prior to riveting them. It is trivial to do that before they are in place but a PITA once they are attached and yet it seems like that simple step is missed consistently. I just want the build to follow the plans; nothing more, nothing less.
 
My QB RV7 did not have any issues and really great quality. I am hoping my 14A will have the same quality and if so, I will be very happy.
 
Build

You want the build to follow plans? Have you read ahead any? As you progress in the build, the plans assume that you have learned something along the way and tend to be more of a guide than "put tab A into slot B".

Although I found some discrepancies in the QB, I am glad I did it and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Just an FYI, the most annoying issue I found in the QB kit was with the vertical part of the door opening in the fuselage. The QB kit came with AN470 rivets installed in 14 locations, seven on each side. These locations were supposed to be AN426 FLUSH rivets. You might think, "Aw, no big deal"...right up until you are fitting the Cabin top, then those button heads really cause an issue. It was an easy fix; drill them out and install the correct rivets. Did not take much time and all were accessible for riveting. It took a tiny amount of frustration out of fitting the top, so there is that...
 
Our 7 QB was Czech built - one of the last and we found no mistakes.

Our 8 was Philippines built and we found a half dozen mistakes - sub assemblies progressed too far, wrong nutplates etc etc.

There have been a few threads about this over the years and as others have said - expect a good standard but maybe not absolute perfection.

Read, read and re read the procedure and check the assembly before proceeding, then you will pick up anomalies without a problem. Most of the issues we had on the 8 were so minor, they took moments to deal with and move on. Ultimately, the QB kit saved a huge amount of time and effort.
 
You want the build to follow plans? Have you read ahead any? As you progress in the build, the plans assume that you have learned something along the way and tend to be more of a guide than "put tab A into slot B".

There is nothing ambiguous about "Don't drill or dimple these holes until section 32". They do that for a reason. That is one of the things that I've "learned along the way".
 
Scott, what do you think of holes that are dimpled before they are match drilled? Any change of problems with those holes later?

My position is that standard dimple dies should not be used on holes that weren't either match drilled or final drilled.
I.E., they should be made to final size before they get dimpled.

So, holes that were intended to be match drilled can't be just final drilled and then dimpled separately if there is a need for that.
 
My position is that standard dimple dies should not be used on holes that weren't either match drilled or final drilled.
I.E., they should be made to final size before they get dimpled.

So, holes that were intended to be match drilled can't be just final drilled and then dimpled separately if there is a need for that.

So what am I to think about the quick build I received with the holes already dimpled that were to wait until the tail cone was attached?

Build on? I'm really at a loss on how I should take this and I'm not getting answers from Van's thus far.
 
So what am I to think about the quick build I received with the holes already dimpled that were to wait until the tail cone was attached?

Build on? I'm really at a loss on how I should take this and I'm not getting answers from Van's thus far.

Call the support line. Get a person on the phone. Find a solution. You're going in circles here and you're obviously not getting the answers you want or need.
 
Call the support line. Get a person on the phone. Find a solution. You're going in circles here and you're obviously not getting the answers you want or need.

Agreed. I think Scott's reply was right on which I think makes "building on" difficult.
 
So what am I to think about the quick build I received with the holes already dimpled that were to wait until the tail cone was attached?

Build on? I'm really at a loss on how I should take this and I'm not getting answers from Van's thus far.

Do you know that the holes that are already dimpled weren't final drilled first?
 
Do you know that the holes that are already dimpled weren't final drilled first?

Nope. I'm not sure why they would have been since there would have been nothing to match drill it to. I doubt that is something that could be found out at this point.

I did have a very helpful conversation with Eric Rushing at Van's who as many know is building his own RV-10 quickbuild. What was done at the factory with those holes is clearly a mistake but Eric pointed out that the RV12's built by Synergy are dimpled without match drilling and there have been no problems with cracking. The advice was to run a Scotchbrite pad over the dimples to ensure that there are no sharp edges and build on which is really the only option at this point. Thanks Eric for the help.
 
By looking at the dimpled holes with a magnifying glass, perhaps you could tell if they were drilled or just punched only.

Bevan
 
By looking at the dimpled holes with a magnifying glass, perhaps you could tell if they were drilled or just punched only.

Bevan

Whether they were or were not, my options are limited a this point. I'm going to follow the advice Eric at Van's gave me and trust that running the dimple die through holes that are not fully sized while not necessarily best practice won't spell doom.
 
Dimples

I would look for cracking and the polish the back side of the dimple with a 1" scotch brite in a die grinder and build on.

Jim
 
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