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Next Catto Prop

This is superb testing. Thanks for publishing these photos.
[[snip]]
Also, if you had a chance to put a spinner on it with a window, I wonder how much of that inboard trailing edge disturbance is related to the lack of spinner.

Dave

That is a very good point. One of the 1st things I heard when I bought my 1st RV over 20 years ago, was that the primary result of running without a spinner was a noticeable effect on cooling, due to disturbed flow into the cowl inlets.

Charlie
 
What are we seeing out near the tip in this photo? The three or four most outboard tufts indicate separated flow?

Dan,
Craig has not got back to me with the analysis of the numerous flight tests. His shop is ridiculously busy with projects. He is sending me the video and audio files. From previous tests we know that the strand shreds itself above Mach ~0.6. He has used Kevlar string on other test and that held up much better but none was available. In that specific frame I don?t know if that is bad airflow or if the string shredding itself (because I don?t know the flight conditions associated yet). At 2,750 rpm and that altitude we calculated tip speed to be approx Mach 0.78. So if that was my max speed run (2850 rpm) it could be the strand shredding. If it was my idle run then it could be bad airflow. I will post the video/audio fie and results once available. My goal with the previous post was to give anyone interested an inside look at what was being done.

The test consisted on the following during each tuft flight:
-Climb at 125-130 kts IAS at full power
-Level off at 4,000 msl at full power. Allowing the aircraft speed and rpm to settle at max.
-With current power setting, climb to reaching stall.
-Level off and start slowing to idle rpms.
-Once established at idle power and level altitude lower nose.
-Allow airspeed to build up as you dive to max airspeed.

All those test profiles allow the prop angle of attack to change on the blade due to relative wind changes. All the way from max P factor to no load on the prop.

The test profile for the oil was very short. Apply the oil/powder mixture by the hold short line, start the engine, take off, climb at 110 kts IAS, level off at 1,000 ft agl, max speed run, return to land. 6 minutes from start to shut down.


This is superb testing. Thanks for publishing these photos.

Do the tuft positions appear to change consistently with rotation angle? That is, does the prop seem to be strongly influenced by the cowl shape?

Also, if you had a chance to put a spinner on it with a window, I wonder how much of that inboard trailing edge disturbance is related to the lack of spinner.

Dave

Dave,
Thank you.

As you watch the video in real time, there are many things going on. One of them is the influence the cowling/air inlet have on the prop air flow. The tufts seem to pulsate every time they encounter the cowling/air inlet.

The other thing that is seen is that the downward blade and the upward blade have dissimilar airflow in some regimes. Hence proving the theory/fact of P factor.

We discussed the airflow around the root being affected by not having the spinner. The current test fixture does not allow for the installation of a spinner.


That is a very good point. One of the 1st things I heard when I bought my 1st RV over 20 years ago, was that the primary result of running without a spinner was a noticeable effect on cooling, due to disturbed flow into the cowl inlets.

Charlie

Charlie,
I have done tests with and without spinners on 2 different RVs. One with the stock Vans cowl and one with a Sam James cowl. CHT behavior was definitely affected by the removal of the spinner on both cowls. It was not a drastic increase however, if I remember correctly one side of the engine was affected more than the other with the #1 cylinder being affected the most. I would have to pull the data for exact numbers.
 
As you watch the video in real time, there are many things going on. One of them is the influence the cowling/air inlet have on the prop air flow. The tufts seem to pulsate every time they encounter the cowling/air inlet.

Sure they do. The tufts should show increased AOA in front of the inlets. The AOA evidence should be more apparent as inlet size moves more toward low Vi/Vo. If you want to prove it to yourself, cycle your variable cowl outlet and watch what happens to the tufts over the inlets. Throttling the exit reduces the inlet velocity/freestream velocity ratio, or put another way, slows the air out in in front of the inlet a bit more.

Something similar happens in front of radial engine cowls, a detail shown by the NACA folks before WWII. In near the blade roots, toward the center of the big 'ole radial cowl, air meeting the prop blade is as low as 70% of freestream. To compensate, a good radial engine prop has less AOA near the root than airspeed would suggest.
 
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Interestingly, some of this is covered in "Propellers," by Jack Norris.

It's fascinating to see tuft photos.

Dave
 
The next Catto test prop showed up. This one is similar to the one I used at Reno. It does differ by the following:

-This one is 2 inches shorter in diameter at 68 inch by 80 inch. The pitch went up by 2 inches.

-The ?wing tip? faces aft vice forward

-No fences

Differences by just looking at it. Seems like the tip tappers quickly vice some of the other versions. It also looks like it arcs aft more than the others. It may be an optical illusion due to the quick taper on the tip in combination with the tip curl. Not sure when I will be able to get the flight test completed on it as I have a few competing commitments. Once I get the test done, I will post the data.

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wow a beauty

What a prop. It looks really cool. If all goes well with the flight test, I hope he can make me a cruiser version with nickel edges. That would be sweet.

Thanks for keep us informed and putting the experimental back into our planes.
 
7th prop in test now.

I did A flight last weekend and the props feels great, will have quantitative data later. Craig designed this one for 2300 rpm static (on the ground) and 2750 max cruise.

I saw 2290 rpm static and 2740 max in level flight at 8,000 DA. He nailed the numbers for sure. Will see how it performs. Seems better for take off and climb but I was having issues slowing it down for landing. A few installed pics.

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I have been flying with Prop #7 for some time now and it is absolutely my favorite prop. Overall it is a great compromise. Below you will see the data I provided to Catto. Tests were all done with fuel fuel on take off.

Pros
- Qualitatively it sounds quieter than previous test props.
- It grabs nicely about half way down the takeoff roll. It reduced takeoff roll from 990-1,000 ft to 900-910 ft.
- Good glide distance demonstrated during simulated engine out. The aircraft could glide further than with prop 5. Qualitatively it seemed to contribute less to the total drag of the aircraft. It was similar in performance to prop 4 during this test.
- No negative impact to the CHTs or oil cooling observed (did not have the issue as prop 4 did with cooling impacts).
- Climb performance improved. I was able to climb at 115-120 kts vice my standard 125-130 kts without slowing down my preferred RPM.
- At 8,000 ft DA and 2,700 RPM it is the fastest prop thus far cruising at 182 KTAS. Previous test props demonstrated 176 KTAS (prop 3) - 178 KTAS (prop 5) at the same test conditions.
- At 12,500 ft DA and 2,700 RPM it is comparable at 180 KTAS to prop 5 (179 KTAS).

Cons
- It was very difficult to slow down the aircraft. It was similar in performance to prop 4.
- At 8,000 ft DA and 2,760 RPM (WOT) it is comparable to prop 3 at 187 KTAS but 3 kts slower than prop 4 (190 KTAS) and 5 kts slower than prop 5 (192 KTAS in non-race configuration).

General
- This is a good overall prop. It has the best take off performance and cruise performance at 8,000 DA and 2,700 RPMS thus far. It is not the prop for racing or flying a lot of formation flights. The majority of the RV community would find this prop to be a good compromise throughout the flight envelope.
- It will also allow the pilot to use the max out of the engine horse power without feeling like he/she will exceed the 2700 rpm engine limit cruising at altitude.

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Prop #8 is a 3 bladed derivative with Nickle leading edges and clear tape. We chose to go with the mate paint on the prop and spinner. The combination looks cool. This is a 64X78. If you want to see the prop, it will be on my plane at OSH.

Talking about spinners. I have been struggling to figure out a way to use my 14 lb crush plate with the new Catto spinner. We ended up boring a hole 1/4 inch deep on the crush plate with the corresponding diameter of the spinner dowel. We then measured the spinner dowel and cut the length as required. The spinner dowel now sits inside the crush plate in a similar manner it does inside the prop. The nice thing was that minimum weight was removed from the crush plate. Data will take a while to collect but will keep you guys informed.

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Talking about spinners. I have been struggling to figure out a way to use my 14 lb crush plate with the new Catto spinner. We ended up boring a hole 1/4 inch deep on the crush plate with the corresponding diameter of the spinner dowel. We then measured the spinner dowel and cut the length as required. The spinner dowel now sits inside the crush plate in a similar manner it does inside the prop. The nice thing was that minimum weight was removed from the crush plate. Data will take a while to collect but will keep you guys informed.

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Axel,

I?ll actually be running two crush plates...both a 20 lb steel and an aluminum (not sure of the weight) along with a 4? prop extension to work with my S.J. cowling on my -7. I?ll also be running the three blade prop with the NLE along with the Catto spinner. I worked with Nicole when ordering everything and told her what cowling/extension/crush plate combo that I?d be using. Do you think I?ll have any spinner/crush plate clearance issues with my setup?...or do you think your clearance issues were specific to your airplane? Will you please elaborate on the spinner clearance issues you had with your 14 lb crush plate and maybe post a picture or two of the fix that you did.

Thanks,
Mark
 
Mark,
This is what we had to do.
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The hole being cut on the center of the "crush plate" (14 lb weight) is the same diameter as the spinner dowel. In the case of your and my installation the dowel will not sit inside the pro because the crush plate did not come with a hole on the center like the prop does.

So you will have to cut a hole on the "crush plate" (all the way or a portion like we did), cut the dowel down and have it sit inside your secondary crush plate (the one with the hole) or a combination. Not hard to do. Just have to think ahead, but in this case you now have the answer. Now back to flight testing.
 
Spinner installation

Thanks for the information Axel. I?m not at that point just yet but I?m sure once I start the installation I?ll see exactly what you?re talking about. Thanks again.

Mark
 
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