What's new
Van's Air Force

Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.

After an Unairworthy Condition Inspection

Does that mean that since I am the manufacture (not Van's) I get to specify the inspection procedure?

No.

This is one of the gaps that exists in the details but the intent of that alternate requirement is for Experimental LSA.
Since ELSA is a by product of a certified SLSA, the inspection procedure / check list documented in the aircraft maint. manual is supposed to be used.
 
Does that mean that since I am the manufacture (not Van's) I get to specify the inspection procedure?

That's a great point and without an FAA Order 8000.xxx to tell you otherwise someone could interpret it that way. If someone tells you "no what that means is... or the intents was..." then you could turn around and say " please show me where you find that in any FAA publication or is that just your opinion?"

And that my friends is why since my first post I was asking for a Regulation or FAA Order 8000.xx type of reference. So up to now the consensus is we only have the Operating Limitations to go by, and those are are as easy to interpret in different ways as we just saw now.
 
So up to now the consensus is we only have the Operating Limitations to go by, and those are are as easy to interpret in different ways as we just saw now.

Yes and no.

It is specified in CFR8130.2J (the document that spells out all of the rules for aircraft certification) that when an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations are issued, that the inspector issuing the certificate is required to review all of the operating limitations with the applicant and assure they understand what they mean and how they effect the operation of the aircraft.

So from the start it should be clear.

If the aircraft gets sold, there is definitely potential for confusion, but it is still the owners (actually anyone flying the airplane) responsibility to understand what the operating limitations are. That is why they are required to be in the aircraft at all times.

The best option for anyone that is unsure of what a particular limitation means is (if possible) probably to contact the person that originally issued the certificate and ask if they will clear up the uncertainty.
 
Yes and no.

It is specified in CFR8130.2J (the document that spells out all of the rules for aircraft certification) that when an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations are issued, that the inspector issuing the certificate is required to review all of the operating limitations with the applicant and assure they understand what they mean and how they effect the operation of the aircraft.

So from the start it should be clear.

If the aircraft gets sold, there is definitely potential for confusion, but it is still the owners (actually anyone flying the airplane) responsibility to understand what the operating limitations are. That is why they are required to be in the aircraft at all times.

The best option for anyone that is unsure of what a particular limitation means is (if possible) probably to contact the person that originally issued the certificate and ask if they will clear up the uncertainty.


And we FINALLY have something that looks like an FAA Order 8000.xxx I was talking about from the beginning !! 8130.2J gives me something to read and from there I might find what other 8000.xxx order mentions those sections in the Operating Limitations, because they're not coming from the air.

Somewhere there's an FAA Order that tells the inspectors what to write and how to write it. Not all FAA inspectors are that bright that they're expected to come up with them on their own. In fact now that I mention it I know there's a computer program where the inspector checks boxes and then the printer spits out the Operating Limitations. There has to be then an Order telling them what to choose on that program and why.

We're getting closer !!!
 
Thanks Scott McDaniels

Thanks Scott, It is nice to have someone with the depth of knowledge that you bring to the discussion. This is one more example where I learned something.
 
What is generally regarded as enough is an owner with a PP or better.
Ed Holyoke

This part isn't true at all. It is well known and accepted that literally anyone can do the maintenance on an E-AB. No maintenance or pilot certificate required.
You could take someone from an un-contacted tribe in the Amazon that doesn't even know what an airplane is, and they are still qualified.
 
Somewhere there's an FAA Order that tells the inspectors what to write and how to write it.

All of that is in FAA Order 8130.2. Current version is 8130.2J, but K is in the works.

The specific verbiage an inspector or DAR is supposed to use to complete an airworthiness inspection is on page 2-6 of the order. Paragraph g(3) states as follows:

Make a maintenance record entry. The following is considered a satisfactory statement for the maintenance record entry: “I find that this aircraft meets the requirements for the certificate requested and have issued a [standard airworthiness certificate or special airworthiness certificate for the purpose(s) of (enter purpose) and operating limitations] dated _______. [Signature: John Smith, Aviation Safety Inspector, SW 41].”

You'll note that this is different from the statement found in the operating limitations that is used for completing a condition inspection. That statement, found in item #15 in the operating limitations table in the order. The condition inspection statement is as follows:

“I certify that this aircraft has been inspected on [insert date] per the [insert either: scope and detail of part 43, appendix D; or manufacturer’s inspection procedures] and was found to be in a condition for safe operation.”

You can consider a condition inspection to be very much the same as a flight review. There is no way to "fail" either. You can only successfully complete them, by whatever means necessary.
 
unairworthy?

Not sure if this has already been covered but AC 65-23A CHG 1 says ...No person may operate this aircraft unless within the preceding 12 calendar-months it has had a condition inspection performed in accordance with part 43, appendix D, and is found to be in a condition safe for operation. Additionally, this inspection shall be recorded...
You might not pass a condition inspection without addressing noted discrepancies but if you don't it may be unwise to fly (but you all know that) and you absolutely cannot fly if you're out of time. On certified you have the option of a ferry permit to fly to a repair station or where ever. Not sure about experimental.
BTW, I've never used the words airworthy or unairworthy in a log book. Only the fact that an inspection has been completed and a list of discrepancies provided to the owner.
Cool discussion...I'm using parts of my brain I hadn't used in a while.
danny
 
This part isn't true at all. It is well known and accepted that literally anyone can do the maintenance on an E-AB. No maintenance or pilot certificate required.
You could take someone from an un-contacted tribe in the Amazon that doesn't even know what an airplane is, and they are still qualified.

Legally qualified perhaps, but hardly accountable and who knows if they are competent. I said generally regarded as enough. I try to educate my clients and encourage them to learn more about the correct/safe way to do things.

Ed Holyoke
 
Back
Top