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LSE Electronic Ignition Customer Service

db8

db8

Well Known Member
Has anyone encountered any difficulties dealing with Klaus Savier at Lightspeed (LSE)? I ordered a replacement ignition wiring harness, which arrived missing the plastic clam shell cover for the pin connector. I called him and asked if he could send me one. He was very short, said he always sends complete wire harnesses, and basically said that unless I had a technical question, the conversation was over.

I couldn?t believe it, so I sent him an email explaining that I didn?t make it up and that I?m an honest person. Here is his quoted response: ?David, As I mentioned, I don't have time to and don't care to argue with you. I am busy running a business for a living sending out free DB connector shells! We have quality control here and we have never sent any systems out that did not have connector shells on them. If I or Jenny has to spend any more time on this issue I will have to charge for our time. Should you have any real problems with our product however we are here to help.? I never argued with him -- I just told him it wasn?t with the wire harness or in the box.

I wrote one more email suggesting he check his inventory and he could see he has one more cover than harness order (since mine didn?t have one). His response: ?As I mentioned before, neither Jenny or I have time to read this. You can purchase your Connector shell at Radio Shack.?

Wow. I am posting this to see if anybody else has had any issues with him ? all for a three dollar part that he thinks (evidently) I made up wasn?t included in his shipment. Dave:confused:
 
Klaus

He treated me the same way and told me buy a mag.....:eek:

I found a good electrical guy that keeps mine patched up and we replaced some of the cheap components so it's been working steadily for over a year now. Prior to that it failed three times in a year.

But you'll find people here that love him so I'll leave it at that. :rolleyes:
Good luck.
 
There is little doubt that Klaus is, err, unique. That said, I have never had any problems dealing with him myself, nor any problems with the Lightspeed units I have mounted on two airplanes. FWIW, I always start emails to him with, "Guten Tag" instead of "Hi Klaus..." Maybe that's why I've never had an issue, can't say for certain.

Given that a DB connector covers are a few pennies at Radio Shack, I would just run down and get one rather than make an issue of it. It's an imperfect world.

:D
 
That's all I'm going to do (run down to Radio Shack and get one). I am not questioning his product at all. I kind of feel wierd about even posting a question to see if anybody else has had any issues. I have no doubt he will stand behind his product. It just really bugged me, that's all. Didn't know if it was an isolated incident or not? I'm sure he's a nice guy.
 
My understanding is that there is a clone system coming out soon, he just might change his address to his clients at this time. :eek:
 
He's an A**!!! I put a PIII in my BD-4 and out of the box two of the coil lead connectors were broken. He told me I must have damaged them. Wouldn't replace them so I had to buy new ones.

Then during first run up the Hall sensor failed. He said I didn't install it correctly (which I did..am I'm not a novice). Then after all of that the stupid PIII box failed. I sent it back to him he sent me a loaner. When I received mine back it failed again during take-off after 30 minutes of testing on the ground and run-up. Thankfully I had a trusty ole Slick on the other side.

I had a heck of a time trying to get my money back, but I did and I took about 40 pictures and had a knowledgable A&P verify my installation and sign an affidavit attesting to the installation. His attitude was "hey, parts fail all the time, its impossible to know when or control it"..nice attitude for a guy selling ignition systems for aircraft.

As far as I'm concerned his products are junk because with an attitude like his no idea what corners he's cut in the process. Yeah, yeah, yeah, guys are flying with his **** and have no problems...wait till they do!

There is simply no excuse for his LACK of customer service and the best way you can show him that is to buy from his competitors!

I wouldn't put his stuff on my -8 if you gave them to me for free and paid me!

nuff said.
 
thanks for posting.

This thread is timely - I've been trying to decide what ignition system to buy. I was looking at LSE's stuff last night... but I won't anymore. I've found that service is the key in aviation.

I may just stick with Slicks.
 
I suppose it helps if you speak German. I went to Santa Paula (SZP) where he has his shop and met with him personally. After a long conversation in German, I bought a dual Plasma II setup with crank trigger from him. One of the nicest guys I've ever met. I've since put about 215 hours on them and they're running great (knock on wood, of course).

Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, 315 hours
 
Over the years I've had a few issues come up that I needed his help on and he was always there to talk to immediately and helped resolve my issues in a timely & satisfactory manner. He is a small business and can't afford to give things away but overall I respect what he has done and I think he has the best EI there is. I also make it a point to stop by and say hi at Osh every year and we have had some great dialog on the different EI systems.

Is he "Mr Personality" to everybody, maybe not, but he's a nice guy when you get to know him and he does have a great product IMO.
 
In the spirit of the forum's no-vendor-bashing policy, as well as SGT Joe Friday's "just the facts, ma'am" policy, here's my experience:

My Super Six had a LSE Plasma I system when I bought it flying in '07. Admittedly an older system (9 yrs) with 450+ hours on it, and a system with no current replacements available (no longer sold, but still somewhat supported). I had one coil fail, did all the recommended troubleshooting, and had hot and cold customer service during the process...but got 'er done with some help from the LSE home office.

Later (about 520 hrs TT) the system developed a 300+ RPM "LSE drop" (can that be called a mag drop? ;)) issue during mag checks. Did much troubleshooting, and again hot and cold on CS...if I did my homework before I called, calls went well. If I asked a rookie question or postulated an alternative diagnosis...well, call didn't go so well. Sent the box in, and it was returned as "not the problem". So I changed every component in the system, except the box and the crank sensor...'bout $600-700 worth. Problem remained, then went away suddenly...and I was told it might have been wet plugs (even though they were new).

Plane ran well for 60 hours, then the same drop came back in an intermittant way (no big surprise, and my bad for not digging further 60 hours earlier...wishful thinking never really fixes anything, right!). The drop seemed to get better as things heated up, and timing varied wildly on one channel when problem drop was "off" or "on", which on the phone I was told was something along the lines of "impossible" by LSE. So box went in again, and sure enough it was the box. Same indications on the bench...bad drop would go away after warming up, or would go away if the side of the box was pressed (on the LSE bench). Sadly, due to the intermittant nature, the smoking gun could not be isolated, so I was told it was non-repairable, and the only solution was to upgrade to the PIII and get a new crank sensor, as my old-style PI sensor would not work with the PIII.

Some curt customer service during that series of discussions, and the quote in the mail for the box and crank sensor came in at $1175. No consideration for being a current user/customer (sure, I didn't buy the original box, but I had bought replacement parts), and no consideration for what I had already spent. Had I gone that direction, I would have spent over $1800 for a approx. $1535 system (never buy a system one part at a time, eh!). All that with the on-again, off-again customer service attitude.

Now to be fair, this was an older system. Newer PII and PIII systems use newer technology, so please don't take this as a bash on the equipment. I know many are using it with great success. To their credit, LSE supported me in troubleshooting an older system. I've actually had some enjoyable conversations with Klaus. On the other side of the ledger, at other times it was painful, and heck...I was the customer...and I don't believe I was ever a jerk...or a buffoon. I would have stuck with it had I felt I was being taken care of as a customer. I've seen this exact topic discussed in threads on LSE in the past...it appears (observation only) that many have had similar experiences. I decided to vote with my feet...and my wallet.

My solution: After researching the Electroair (aka Jeff Rose) system, talking with a well-known and respected poster here at VAF that has used Electroair on multiple RVs/Rockets, I called Mike at Electroair. Super friendly and knowledgeable guy...patient and helpful with every question I had along the way...and has been superb to deal with every time I've called.

When I asked him why he wasn't marketing more heavily to the EXP market, he said that they continue to produce for the EXP market, but have been pouring time and $$ into full-up certification. Hmmm...the cost is less than a LSE...my performance has been just as good (and it works all the time!) and the company is doing the rigor and diligence to get its product certified as well. I hope we'll see more of the company after that process is done. (caveat...the last two sentences are my personal opinion).

Mike himself was the reason I switched...and I'm very happy about the decision.

Kind of been holding my tongue since making the switch last summer, to keep from sounding like a sour grapes guy (I'm not...just happy to have a new vendor that's a nice guy and has a great product, to be honest). But thought I'd offer one other possible solution anyway. My wife always gets PO'd when I offer solutions ;) but I figured I'd give you some feedback about my experience, and tell you about a happy outcome!

Cheers,
Bob
 
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More thoughts on Klaus....

I hartily agree with Walt....I've had a Plasma II + on two planes and Klaus has always talked to me (not down to me). I've had some problems during the installs (I'm no avionics wizard) and he went to far as to give me his cell number and told me to call him anytime day or night!!! BTW, I did several times and he always worked with me...

Just my 2 cents....

Bill
 
customer service

I'm not very savvy electrically, and although I've yet to install my electroair, which I bought used, Mike has been SUPER helpful on the phone, and e-mailing me all the info possible for my old-style unit.
can say enough good things about him.
....I'd be scared to buy LSE, because I would naturally have about 100 questions before I even finished the installation.
 
db8 said:
That's all I'm going to do (run down to Radio Shack and get one). I am not questioning his product at all. I kind of feel wierd about even posting a question to see if anybody else has had any issues. I have no doubt he will stand behind his product. It just really bugged me, that's all. Didn't know if it was an isolated incident or not? I'm sure he's a nice guy.
Click to expand...

Just search the entire RV forum on the word "Klaus." You are not alone...

:D
 
hgerhardt said:
I suppose it helps if you speak German. I went to Santa Paula (SZP) where he has his shop and met with him personally. After a long conversation in German, I bought a dual Plasma II setup with crank trigger from him. One of the nicest guys I've ever met. I've since put about 215 hours on them and they're running great (knock on wood, of course).

Heinrich Gerhardt
RV-6, 315 hours
Click to expand...

Jawohl! Er ist immer ein Deutscher...
 
IowaRV9Dreamer said:
This thread is timely - I've been trying to decide what ignition system to buy. I was looking at LSE's stuff last night... but I won't anymore. I've found that service is the key in aviation.

I may just stick with Slicks.
Click to expand...

I had electronic ignition on a previous airplane with one mag and it worked fine except it once broke a starter ring when it lost its brain during a start where voltage probably dropped below 8V.

There's is a ton of material to read at CAFE on EI and no question, it creates a lot of spark and earlier than a mag when at less than 29" MP but there is scant evidence there is appreciable improved performance below 10,000'.

I am tempted to switch to EI since it seems so chic to do so, but do believe I will hold off until the first mag fails. So far they have worked fine and before the preheat install, would start the engine easily down to 30F (if I got the right amount of fuel injected for prime).

They are electric/mechanical in nature and old technology, but they work. :)
 
If I was going to switch to mags it sounds like the Bendix 1200 series is the way to go, but I hear they are also big, heavy and not sure they would even fit? So just out of curiousity does anybody have any info on these and would they fit in the RV engine mount?
 
This was a timely thread. I have been trying to figure out what EI to purchase for the last week. To me customer service is 2nd only to the quality of a product. In fact when I sell something new or used, if the person that purchased is not happy, I always take it back or make it right.

That connector will cost you $3 but it just resulted in the loss of two IE systems to him. They were my primary choice for EI.

Thanks for posting your experience. I realize everyone will have good experiences and bad. And this is just your side. But this post about a $3 part and the post about the cheap non-aviation wire used was extremely helpful in deciding what EI to purchase.
 
alternative supplier?

My experience with Klaus runs towards the better side of this equation. I understand the small business aspect of his process, of course. I have installed a few of his systems -- some worked as advertised; one gave us headaches to no end. Turned out that the crank endplay was one of the problems...duhhhhhh...

His systems are popular with the Reno Sport Class,FWIW.

G3 ignition sounds like a viable alternative, considering the CAFE report, specifically efficiency below 14000'MSL. The failure mode is easy to deal with: unit failure simply reverts to magneto operation.

http://www.g3ignition.com/

While I am not a customer -- yet, Tom is a pleasure to work with; customer service is his #1 priority.

Carry on!
Mark
 
Customer service !

In the experimental world customer service is key....It is hard to beat the customer service delivered cheerfully by E-Mag and G-3 ! :)
 
Klaus and G3

Hi

As my RV4 is a 20 year project and I bought my LS ignition a long time ago I still have the original version. (Its taken 20 years because I have rebuilt a Tailwind, Kitfox, built an RV9 and loads of stuff in between).

Anyway I finally fired up the LSE system a couple of months ago but there was fault. I contacted Klaus by email and with his help I was able to track down the problem to a broken wire. I think thats excellent customer support given the amount of time since I had bought the unit. He even has spares available.

Having looked at the G3 site the system there looks similar to my LSE system, a couple of parts look like updated versions of my LSE parts, for example the MSD capacitive dishare unit. They have gone a different way in that the unit picks up its signal from a mag, although they do offer crank sensors as well I think. Doing it from one of the mags is clever though as there is extra redundancy built into the system.

So for customer service Klaus got 10 out of 10 to me. He even contacted me afterward to ensure all was OK.
 
I have never had a problem with him.

I was a novice to engine timing last year, and Klaus talked me through it in great detail for almost 1 hr even thought I was not buying anything from him. Since then, I have called him for a number of things and have never had a problem. Sure he is short sometimes, but thats just who he is. Based on what I am hearing he was wrong to doubt a customer in my view, but sometimes stuff just happens and genuine customers get screwed over. I have never had a problem with my EI's from Klaus and fly heavy IFR in my 6 all the time up here in the NW. I trust them completely.
 
Jekyl and Hyde

WoW! I can't get over the divergency of views about Klaus! It's as if you asked Dems and Repubs how they liked Bush or Obama. He's either an angel or a devil! His products are either the best or fail all the time! I really don't understand how this can be; he's either the most unco-operative vendor or the one who gives excellent service. Really; can all of this be embodied in one individual? Oh, the verisimilitudes of human nature!
 
Personally, Klaus has never let me down! If I email or call it's always a good situation... but then again, I'm German... :D
 
I think it may simply be a culture thing. His "Germanic" style of communicating may seem rude to people who are not accustomed to Germans in general, but I don't think he intends that. There are some similar cultures here in America that may also seem "abrasive" to those not familiar with that culture, yet seem perfectly normal to folks who grew up around it.

Or perhaps he is truly inconsistent with people, or simply responds abrasively to people HE perceives as "difficult."

I tend to suspect it's a little of both.

Like I said earlier, I've had no problem with him and have enjoyed both good performance from his systems and good customer service when I called or emailed.

To date, my sense is that LightSpeed units have the best track record of reliability out there (among EI units) and the largest installed base. That may change, but for now that is worth considering.
 
LSE Product and Service

Wow it seems quite a bit of discussion on a DB Connector shell ! Personally I have had excellent performance from my PIII unit, the plane really runs well with it (RV6 180+ CS) The install went well (I spent the time to read the directions throughly) I found that the quality of the answers I received from Klaus was in direct proportion to the level of preparation I had done in answering them. I work in my job primarily with engineers and scientists and the style of discussion is similar when speaking with Klaus, point is, quite good assistance is given. IMHO the LSE units work great, have the long track record of performance in all kinds of experimental aircraft, especially all the fastest ones ! Personalities aside, I have gotten a professionally built aircraft ignition system and the help I needed to install it(even when I called late at night) from Klaus. I find it's best not to sweat the small stuff and look at the goal I am trying to achieve

Peter RV6.2
 
Walt said:
If I was going to switch to mags it sounds like the Bendix 1200 series is the way to go, but I hear they are also big, heavy and not sure they would even fit? So just out of curiousity does anybody have any info on these and would they fit in the RV engine mount?
Click to expand...

I run one on my airplane and have several others around. The 1200 is considered one of the "hottest" mags around, but it is also big and heavy. More troubling is finding parts... They are just not supported that well anymore. When I rebuilt mine, I had to scour ebay for replacement parts. In the long run, there's not much sense in using mags on an experimental... Even the best mags are left in the dust by electronic ignition.
 
No more dialog with LSE -- he just sent it. I will call him if and when I have technical questions. I did a lot of research before I purchased mine and felt/feel very comfortable going with LSE. Dave
 
Now wasn't that a pleasant experience?
:eek:

Basically you spend your $1,500 and pray you get the Jekyll Klaus when you need help.....not the Hyde!
 
The LSE connection.

The first time I installed a LSE on a customers airplane I called Klaus for some info. The first thing I said was "I don't know who builds your wiring harnesses, but the connectors and solder joints are ****!" I didn't know I was personally insulting the manufacturer to his face, or rather, over the phone. (Fortunately!) the response was something akin to "THOSE ARE PRECISION ENGINEERED WIRES AND YOU ARE AN _________!!!" Well, I'll just say it was something in german and the implication was I didn't know what I was doing. (What is eedeyoot in German?)
I have had so many high reliability soldering schools I've forgotten how many I've done. Up til then I had done 15 years in the aerospace and aircraft construction wiring. (I'm with Big B now.) I thought I was being helpful... constructive criticism and all that...
Since then I've met Klaus and found him to be charming and even funny.(dry humor) No he didn't know who I was and what I said about his wires!

But,,, pull the connectors from the wiring when you get them and install better connectors. Get pins, connectors, and a crimper from Stien Air. LSE's come with cheap Radio shack connectors. (Save a few bucks on airplane connectors, is it worth the trouble?)
I've installed three LSE's on customer airplanes. Had trouble shooting because of problems on several more.
The biggest thing is the connections. Of course this is always the case with electronics on any airplane. The biggest and most annoying thing you will see is the wiring problems. Not everybody can do it right.

Me? I fly with a Jeff Rose/Electroair/Electromotive ignition. I use the crankshaft trigger. The other side is an impulse magneto.

I still like Klaus as a person. I guess I'm too German myself and understand the tuetonic mind. Klaus has a French last name. Perhaps he is at war with himself. No, I'm not I.D.-ing myself so you can rat me out!
 
Klaus

Just passing along that I couldn't figure out a little problem I was having with my dual LSE testing. I called Klaus yesterday very close (4:45 PM Pacific Time) to quiting time. I wanted to catch him before the weekend.

I explained what it was doing and he gave me some instructions to check some things. He said he was working late that night and feel free to call him later in the evening. I said I couldn't work on it that night but would call him Tuesday. He said he would be in on Sat and no problem to call him any time all day!

Following his advise on the test sequence, we determined it was a wiring issue on my end. He said to trace the wires and let him know if it doesn't work.....well I had a wire reversed and it works great now.

I am posting this because I was the original poster of this thread. It was very nice dealing with Klaus, and I thought I'd share this.

As I originally mentioned, he has an excellent product (that's why I bought them). He helped another buddy (who wrote up a nice review on LSE and Klaus) a couple of weeks ago. I wouldn't hesitate to buy his product or get his help on any questions. I wasn't looking forward to the phone calls originally, but in the end, it was very pleasant, professional and educational.:) Dave
 
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db8 said:
in the end, it was very pleasant, professional and educational.:) Dave
Click to expand...

I'm glad to hear that.... I've known Klaus for at least 20 yrs... he's all German, all business, industrious, VERY smart, and has bent over backwards to help me over the years. I don't hesitate to think of him as a friend. Do right by him and he'll do right by you.
 
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