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Dual Screen SkyView Touch available for RV-12 builders/owners

Dynon

Dynon

Well Known Member
Advertiser
We've been working with Van's to help them offer a dual screen SkyView panel for the RV-12, and we're pleased to share that Van's now has that option available for both new and existing RV-12 customers.

This new configuration is available in both the E-LSA and S-LSA versions of the RV-12. Van's also offers a kit that allows customers to add a second SkyView Touch display to existing aircraft.

Both the dual display option and the add-on display kit are available directly through Van's Aircraft.
 
Does the dual display option simply add a second screen or is the second unit independent of the first unit? As in, a second ADHRS, should the primary unit fail?

I guess I'm asking, can the second screen be used as a 'back-up' or is it simply an additional screen?
 
Dynon supports dual ADAHRS. (And multiple NAV sources including dual GPS. See the System Installation Manual for examples of different configurations.) But wouldn't that would be for IFR? Why would you want dual ADAHRS on a VFR plane? You do not have to have dual ADAHRS or dual GPS receivers to have dual screens.

The screens are semi-independent. They can back up each other. You can display any view on either screen, and different views on each screen. Example-
Single pilot:
left screen 80% PFD and 20% Engine,
Right screen 100% map
(or, say, right screen 50% PFD and 50% map if there's a copilot.)

What do I mean by semi-independent? You can't do dumb things like set barometric pressure differently on each screen! So some info is shared between them.
 
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It will be interesting to know more from VANs' vantage point. If I remember VANs objection to dual Skyview in the RV-12 was related to the power available with the current alternator. Although within the capacity of the alternator, once all potential equipment (i.e. A/P, lighting ...) are taken into account, too little power is left for the various accessories a pilot could plug into the cigarette lighter port. VANs termed it a safety issue at the time and quite rightly IMHO.
 
edward7048 said:
I wonder if the kit also has you to relocate the voltage regulator?
Click to expand...

Yes it does.
The performance margin that it gains for the voltage regulator, coupled with a small reduction in power required by the current Skyview screens (compared to the earlier released hardware), allowed introducing the duel screen option.
 
Wonder why the touch uses less current than the regular one?

I see the form is up....When will Van's post the revised plans?

Still waiting on the revised plans for the regulator.
 
cactuspilot said:
Wonder why the touch uses less current than the regular one?

I see the form is up....When will Van's post the revised plans?

Still waiting on the revised plans for the regulator.
Click to expand...

I didn't say the touch screen, I just said early screens compared to later screens (touch and non touch).
I don't mean to imply it was a huge difference, but there is a difference.

All of the plans revisions associated with the dual screen release are working there way through the change notice process all grouped together.

Now that the official announcement has been made, and the order form released, everything else should be out soon.
 
A question for Scott, if he's still monitoring this thread: I'm assuming the obvious, that the second screen is also a 10 inch. Has any thought been given to an option for a 7" second screen?

Thx in advance.
 
rvbuilder2002 said:
I didn't say the touch screen, I just said early screens compared to later screens (touch and non touch).
I don't mean to imply it was a huge difference, but there is a difference.
Click to expand...

Is there a serial no after which we know which Skyviews draw less current?

Reason I am asking is because I was thinking about adding a touch and moving the older Skyview to the right side.

Would I have to move the regulator still?

The one thing that bothers me about moving that regulator inside the cockpit is the added potential for an electrical fire in the cockpit.

I do notice that having something plugged into the cig port, the ldg lights on, nav/strobe lights, that anything below 2500 RPM and you are discharging.

By the way, a plug for ADS-B - that thing is wonderful, already helped me avoid a potential midair...I swear half of China was up flying in PHX this past week.
 
XOverZero said:
A question for Scott, if he's still monitoring this thread: I'm assuming the obvious, that the second screen is also a 10 inch. Has any thought been given to an option for a 7" second screen?

Thx in advance.
Click to expand...

Yes, 10 inch screen.
No 7 inch screen is being offered but you could make your own panel section and install one.
 
cactuspilot said:
Is there a serial no after which we know which Skyviews draw less current?

Reason I am asking is because I was thinking about adding a touch and moving the older Skyview to the right side.

Would I have to move the regulator still?

The one thing that bothers me about moving that regulator inside the cockpit is the added potential for an electrical fire in the cockpit.

I do notice that having something plugged into the cig port, the ldg lights on, nav/strobe lights, that anything below 2500 RPM and you are discharging.

By the way, a plug for ADS-B - that thing is wonderful, already helped me avoid a potential midair...I swear half of China was up flying in PHX this past week.
Click to expand...

You would have to see if Dynon could/would help you with info regarding screen serial #. I don't know any specifics.

If you have an E-LSA or E-AB you can do what ever you want. If you have an S-LSA you have to do what is specified.

There is already a lot of electrical equipment inside the cockpit. I don't think moving the regulator inside will increase the risk much. A lot of other LSA have it located there.

Even without something plugged into the accessory plug, if all equipment is turned on, low RPM will cause a battery discharge.
You do know that the label adjacent to the accessory plug lists an amperage limit?
 
Here's the Van's ad for the second screen and kit to install it. Note it requires the voltage regulator to be moved if it's forward of the firewall.

I assume that any input to either screen will appear on the other one; for instance a waypoint selected from the Nav screen will appear in the PFD screen in the HSI.

EBB


V-12 Dual Skyview Kit

Adds Right Side TouchScreen


Description

Kit provides all parts necessary to replace the mapbox panel with an additional Skyview touchscreen. Relocation of the voltage regulator will be necessary if it is located forward of the firewall. Kit includes new POH tray to replace the mapbox, all hardware and wiring harnesses.
New panel is provided unpainted. If this is for an S-LSA installation, cost for the carbon overlay on the new panel (if desired), is an additional $175.(Call)

Ordering Information

Skyview Touch Dual Display Kit
Part Number = RV-12 AV-SVT DUAL
Price = $4250.00
QuantitySubmit
Co
 
Cactus:
I don't know if Van's will sell them in the store.....probably would if you called Kaitlyn or Gus. It's the standard covering for the panel in the S-LSAs so it's needed to make the installation in one of them not look dorky:)

EBB
 
IMG]http://i62.tinypic.com/2ew04qu.jpg[/IMG]
Been flying dual screen for two years now and works great.
Current draw is abt 15 amps average out of 20 -22 available.
To save some power we power switch the fuel pump during take off and landing.
We blew a voltage regulator during a hot summer, but the thermo strips i put on the regulator indicate 80 deg Celcius while the spec is max 90.
It is a poor regulator which has proven not to meet its spec and I would like to replace it by a better one.
I do not fancy a very hot regulator above my knees.
 
2ew04qu.jpg
 
Hotscam said:
Current draw is abt 15 amps average out of 20 -22 available.
thermo strips i put on the regulator indicate 80 deg Celcius while the spec is max 90
It is a poor regulator which has proven not to meet its spec and I would like to replace it by a better one.
I do not fancy a very hot regulator above my knees.
Click to expand...

No one will ever get 20-22 amps out of one of these regulators on a very regular basis and have it last very long, that is why the dual screen was not previously supplied by Van's... 18 Amps is about the practical limit if the regulator is going survive. This is a well excepted fact by those who have a lot of experience operating the 912 engine.
If the regulator is mounted aft of the firewall it wont reach anywhere near 80 C.
 
So what is the budget for amps in an S-LSA RV12?

1.)How many for each Skyview?
2.)How many for fuel pump?
3.)How many for the radio?
4.)etc.

In other words, how close to the max output of the alternator and regulator are we with everything up and running....including nav and landing lights...and with two skivvies?

EBB
 
Certification requirements specify that there be a specific percentage margin between the constant duty electrical load of all installed equipment (extra load for radio in xmit, flap motor, etc., don't count since they are short term intermittent) and the expected max output of the charging system.

Dual screens still meet the certification requirements if all specified changes are implemented (relocated voltage regulator, etc.).
 
I measured all the loads including all options installed and estimated the average load of intermittent loads such as auto pilot , nav lights , landing light, etc.
This totals to 15 Amps.
I was told to use no more than 80% of the available permanent 18 Amps @13.8 Volts according to Ducati specs. (240 Watts)
The same spec says 90 degrees is max.
It is clear I am clear to the theoretical limits.

When I power switch the fuel pump it will compensate for the second screen and I consider it a safe situation.

Problem is the regulator does not meet the spec as was shown in a study of the university of Grenoble. (Available on Internet )
At 15 amp load the power loss in the regulator is 60 watts which is below the specified 80 max.
Without forced cooling or lower ambient it has shown to die well below max spec.
Relocation to the inside may be a better solution but adds 60 Watt heat into the cabin.
The Ducati is just not the ideal choice.
 
FYI?

Received from Vans today:-


"The second screen uses the same ADHRS/EMS/gps source etc as the
first. It does provide redundancy in that if the first screen fails
it will still work OK. But if one of those modules fails, both
screens will lose that information. "
 
Here's some additional technical information. This isn't exhaustive and doesn't fully answer the question of "can I..." for all aircraft:

We (and basically any electronics or avionics manufacturer) make small running changes to hardware in our products over time to support/improve manufacturability. One of those changes decreased the amount of power that SkyView displays draw.

SV-D1000 displays with a serial number of 6000 and above (including all SkyView Touches) draw 6W, or about .5A at 13.5V, less than ones with lower serial numbers. We started shipping these roughly last summer. The lower power displays are part of the reason Van's was able to offer the dual screen option. Additionally, some earlier serial numbers that have SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP ? DISPLAY HARDWARE INFORMATION > HARDWARE VERSION 2 would also have the lower power draw (this is rare but worth checking).

Vans' engineering of the dual screen option is based on having two of the newer, lower-powered displays in the aircraft, as all new aircraft would have. In that configuration (with other changes like relocating the voltage regulator, as mentioned above), they've determined that they have the power overhead available to support the second screen in the RV-12

If you have one of the earlier serial numbers with the higher power draw and added a second new SV-D1000 or SV-D1000T SkyView Touch display, you would have be pulling 6W more than the design that Van's characterized.

Whether or not that extra half amp makes a critical difference against the RV-12's power budget is not something I can directly answer. I do know that it's not the tested configuration at Van's. One thing that OEMs such as Van's do is not use the "book values" for power consumption, but test actual installed configurations. In SkyView's case, for example, SkyView Network devices are powered by SkyView, and system configurations vary, the values we list in the manual for power consumption reflect the worst case configuration, but in a sport aircraft like the RV-12 that doesn't have every available option, the ACTUAL power consumption will likely be less. Additionally, know that adding the second display doesn't strictly double the power consumption, again because some SkyView Network components like the ADAHRS and EMS are already accounted for in the single screen configuration.

Incidentally, SkyView SV-D700s have the same cutover at s/n 4000 (>4000 draws 6W less), but ALL SV-D700 displays pull less current even the newer SV-D1000 displays because of their small displays.

Michael Schofield
Marketing Manager
Dynon Avionics
 
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dynonsupport said:
SV-D1000 displays with a serial number of 6000 and above (including all SkyView Touches) draw 6W, or about .5A at 13.5V, less than ones with lower serial numbers. We started shipping these roughly last summer. The lower power displays are part of the reason Van's was able to offer the dual screen option. Additionally, some earlier serial numbers that have SETUP MENU > LOCAL DISPLAY SETUP ? DISPLAY HARDWARE INFORMATION > HARDWARE VERSION 2 would also have the lower power draw (this is rare but worth checking).

Vans' engineering of the dual screen option is based on having two of the newer, lower-powered displays in the aircraft, as all new aircraft would have. In that configuration (with other changes like relocating the voltage regulator, as mentioned above), they've determined that they have the power overhead available to support the second screen in the RV-12

If you have one of the earlier serial numbers with the higher power draw and added a second new SV-D1000 or SV-D1000T SkyView Touch display, you would have be pulling 6W more than the design that Van's characterized.

Whether or not that extra half amp makes a critical difference against the RV-12's power budget is not something I can directly answer. I do know that it's not the tested configuration at Van's. One thing that OEMs such as Van's do is not use the "book values" for power consumption, but test actual installed configurations. In SkyView's case, for example, SkyView Network devices are powered by SkyView, and system configurations vary, the values we list in the manual for power consumption reflect the worst case configuration, but in a sport aircraft like the RV-12 that doesn't have every available option, the ACTUAL power consumption will likely be less. Additionally, know that adding the second display doesn't strictly double the power consumption, again because some SkyView Network components like the ADAHRS and EMS are already accounted for in the single screen configuration.


Michael Schofield
Marketing Manager
Dynon Avionics
Click to expand...

Ok - good to know. Thanks for providing this info.

So i have serial no. 64xx non-touch, so in theory I could order the touch addition, move the regulator, and have a touch and non-touch and live happily ever after?
 
Upgrade from Non-Touch to Touch

I am on the list to exchange for a Touch screen. I plan on adding another Touch later.

My screen is an early one with the greater current draw. Will my new Touch exchange screen have the old current draw or the new lesser draw.

I read into an earlier comment that the "less draw" is due to upgrading components associated with the basic circuitry. That implies that even with the Touch conversion I will still see the old current draw.

Mr Dynon, comment?
 
All SkyView Touch displays, whether bought new or through our upcoming trade-in/upgrade program, also do have the changes that result in the lower power consumption. For what it's worth, they also serial numbers above 6000, so that test is still valid across the D1000 family, touch or not.
 
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