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Hand rivet squeezer--how important?

B

bobhope2505

Active Member
The Cleaveland hand rivet squeezer and a 4" yoke costs $334. I can get an Air Tool pneumatic squeezer and a 3" yoke on Amazon for $400. How often do you use a hand squeezer? If I get a pneumatic one, do I need the hand squeezer too? Thanks for any advice you can share with a newbie.
 
Squeezer

bobhope2505 said:
The Cleaveland hand rivet squeezer and a 4" yoke costs $334. I can get an Air Tool pneumatic squeezer and a 3" yoke on Amazon for $400. How often do you use a hand squeezer? If I get a pneumatic one, do I need the hand squeezer too? Thanks for any advice you can share with a newbie.
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Syrus
Welcome.
I'm sure some will swear by their had squeezers but mine has not come out of the tool box since I got my pneumatic. I'm not building a 14 though, so YMMV.
 
If I was setting up my shop I would buy a good rivet gun and air squeezer and borrow a hand squeezer. You will use those tools a lot. The hand squeezer, not so much.
 
Thanks--that's what I figured but I thought I might be missing something. For $70 more I can rivet/dimple with one hand. Easy choice.
 
I use a pneumatic when I have a lot of rivets to set or holes to dimple. I use the hand squeezer when there are just a few. I especially like the hand squeezer for situations where I'm installing a few nut plates and don't want to take the time to figure out the proper combination of sets and shims to do it with the pneumatic. The pneumatic is kind of an "all or nothing" proposition; I can quickly squeeze a rivet any arbitrary amount with the hand squeezer.

That said... either tool could be considered to be a convenience item. If you had to you could get by without either one, and plenty of guys have built planes without ever using a pneumatic. I bought a MUCH cheaper hand squeezer kit, by the way, and it works. Not as well as a Main Squeeze, of course... but it works.

[edit: Of course you're building a 14, and I'm building a 7. Twice the airplane, twice the tools? :)]
 
Squeezer

To Dave's point, buy the adjustable ram and quick change pins for the pneumatic. No hole yoke is also nice.
 
Hand Squeezer

I don't even own one. I use my pneumatic for everything I can. If I can't use it, I buck it or back-rivet.
 
I know of at least one repeat offender who doesn't own a squeezer of either variety. He drove all his rivets.

When I built my slow build, I used my Avery's hand squeezer and never bought a pneumatic squeezer. If I were to build another RV, I would buy a 2X rivet gun to complement my 3X and still not bother with a pneumatic squeezer.

Whichever squeezer you buy, you will want a no-hole and longeron yokes.
 
N941WR said:
I know of at least one repeat offender who doesn't own a squeezer of either variety. He drove all his rivets.
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How did he dimple ribs and other bits ans pieces?

N941WR said:
When I built my slow build, I used my Avery's hand squeezer and never bought a pneumatic squeezer. ...
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I'm in the middle of my fuselage (rv10) and don't have a pneumatic squeezer. I've had no issues with the hand squeezer. When I saw how many blind rivets the fuse kit came with I bought a pneumatic rivet puller, however. Very well worth the money.

N941WR said:
Whichever squeezer you buy, you will want a no-hole and longeron yokes.
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definitely - and probably a long 4" yoke as well. I've found many occasions the longer yoke was helpful.
 
I use only a hand squeezer. 95% of the time its a TP116. Lighter, faster, never punch a skin...or a finger.
 
I use a Numatx pneumatic squeezer (http://www.numatx-tools.com). It is awesome. small and foot pedal activated. not all or nothing.

I attach it to a Cframe and use it for dimpling skins as well.

I have a hand squeezer which I never use, but who knows maybe I will need it at some point..
 
jwilbur said:
How did he dimple ribs and other bits ans pieces?

...
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No idea, C-Frame maybe? I do know he ripped right through his second and third builds.

Here are links to the yokes I recommend. I'm sure others will have a different opinion. Avery's is having a Christmas sale, and the prices listed reflect the sales price.

4" No hole yoke - $139.00


Longeron yoke - $124.00


Optional Deap Reach yoke - $84.55

(I do not have one of these and have never used one. I just saw it while grabbing the URL for this post.)
 
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I got a good deal on a pneumatic squeezer before I started my first build - and have never, not once, used a hand squeezer. Pneumatic does many jobs well, and having a hand free to hold the work is a plus.

Paul
 
This is one thing I debated for a while when I started last year. I got the pneumatic with the adjustable set holder. I honestly don't know why anyone would build an airplane without one. It is the number one tool I use the most and also the biggest time saver. I dimpled all wing ribs, stiffeners in about 10 minutes. I can't believe anyone on here referred to a hand squeezer as faster...

As far as setting rivets it definitely is not all or nothing. You can ease in the set but ideally you want to adjust the set to squeeze the rivet perfectly at full open. Once you set it, you forget it. Every rivet that you need to squeeze that size will pop out the exact same every time. (I still always check about every 20th rivet or so) Takes about 1 min to set a perfect squeeze and then you can just blow through the rest.

In summary it is well worth the money. (this and a tungsten bar) I do not know anything about the squeezer you are looking at. I used the one from Cleaveland Tool.
 
No hole

Bill
Thanks for the tip on the yokes.
I've wanted a "no hole" for a while. That's a great Christmas present to myself. Now if I can find a way to wrap it and put it under the tree without Sweetie finding out.:D
 
Many of us early kit builders built ours entirely with a hand squeezer.

Pneumatic squeezers are production tools ideal for repetitive tasks with hundreds or thousands of like operations on a production line. Only recently have they become popular for home building.
They are handy for 1/8" rivets that take more grunt to set, but the bulk of your repetitive tasks are setting 3/32" rivets or dimpling flanges and skins, easily done with a hand squeezer or C-frame, and you avoid the dreaded figure 8 hole or miss hit as aerhed noted. I buck 1/8" rivets wherever I can.
There is little to no advantage in speed or quality in my opinion unless you are in a production setting. That said, I would be curious to know what Vans QB guys use?

I consider a hand squeezer an essential tool in any sheet metal fabricators tool box.
 
My experience

I rarely make long posts but feel you newer builders may need some insight from a 'not so new' builder :rolleyes:.

Background:
- I've built/owned over 30 RV's and Rockets.

Squeezers:
- I have 7 hand squeezers set up with a variety of dies. I can dimple for various size rivets or screws. And, I can rivet flush, cupped, or no hole and only switch dies if I need a modified or close quarters set.
- None of my hand squeezers is a 'main squeeze' unit. I used to have one of those but I didn't like it and gave it away. If the good folks at Cleaveland want to donate one I'd more than happy to give it another shot and offer a fair review :).
- My favorite squeezers are my Averys.

- I have a pneumatic squeezer with standard and adjustable sets. I've got every yoke that you can think of and have quick release pins.

- I have 4 hand pop rivet pullers and one pneumatic pop rivet puller that is worth it's weight in gold.

- I have a c-frame that is only used for dimpling large skins. Never used for riveting other than demonstration.

- I have a DRDT that is only used to show folks why I don't like them and why I don't recommend them.

- I have an assortment of rivet guns. Only use a 3x to show folks why the 2x is so much nicer.

- never counted but maybe about 45-50 bucking bars. That said I buit my 1st RV with one bucking bar and a tire iron and won Grand Champion at Sun n Fun and a follow up award at Oshkosh. Just mentioning this so you know it can be done but I'll take my assortment any day.

Order of riveting for me is ALWAYS:
1-backrivet
2-squeeze
3-buck

I use my hand squeezers for everything that I can't back rivet. I almost always use one hand only on my hand squeezer. I do 90% of my riveting sitting down.

I can count the times I've used my pneumatic squeezer on one hand. The only time I really break it out is to show folks why they don't need it :eek::D.

My hand squeezers are WAY more versitile, and MUCH lighter than pneumatic and less expensive if you are on a budget.

If I have to rivet one plate nut or run a row of 65 rivers down the trailing edge of a wing I go right for my hand squeezer.

Tip-the key to riveting is being creative and comfortable. NEVER forget this :).

This will sound a bit bold but I'll say it anyway.....I challenge anyone to bring their pneumatic squeezer to my shop and work alongside of me. Bring it on, big smile :D :D.

This is my experience. I'm sure all you guys that are working on your vertical stab with your pneumatic squeezer will disagree.....big smile :).
 
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I agree word for word with (almost) everything Rick wrote.

The exception is that I think a pneumatic squeezer is a very valuable tool for a lot of riveting and dimpling work. Especially for someone that might be susceptible to carpel- tunnel, etc. Enough so that if people can afford it, I recommend they purchase one for their project, then, if they wont likely ever build again, sell it when you are done with your build project for $100 - 150 less than what you paid... consider it the rental fee to have it to use for your entire project.
The one condition is that the pneumatic squeezer either have, or you upgrade it to an adjustable plunger like one of THESE
It will make your pneumatic squeezer as quick to set-up as any hand squeezer.

A great way to get a lot of use from a pneumatic squeezer for riveting a lot of the little assemblies in an RV is to clamp the yoke of the squeezer in a bench vise. Make it stationary... then position the part as needed in the squeezer (instead of the other way around). This is particularly useful with assemblies that use 1/8" rivets. This works to some degree with a hand squeezer also in some situations. Gets rid of the need to
control the part and the squeezer at the same time.

Having said that, I would never own only a pneumatic squeezer. There are a lot of riveting jobs where having a much lighter and easier to control hand squeezer is the best way to get it done.... there are a lot of places you can get to with a hand squeezer that you can't with pneumatic squeezer because of the body size.

BTW, I think there is also value in a good 3X rivet gun, but I only use them on 1/8 or larger rivets. A 2X is best choice for 3/32.
 
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rv6rick said:
- I have a c-frame that is only used for dimpling large skins. Never used for riveting other than demonstration.

- I have a DRDT that is only used to show folks why I don't like them and why I don't recommend them.
).
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Very good post Rick, but could you please elaborate on these two points as I were under the impression that the DRDT is the best thing since... And to use a c frame for riveting is n nifty way to set good rivets.
 
Well....I don't always get a clear answer, but I always learn a lot either way when I ask a question on this forum! Thanks all.

The only 100% correct reply was from Dale--anyone who builds a 14 is, in fact, entitled to twice as many tools. I cannot understand why I didn't figure that out at the start. I can't wait to tell my wife.

I have also figured out how to solve everyone's tool problems: Rick is going to have a garage sale and we're all going.
 
Twenty one years of building and I say you can never have enough tools!
I agree with almost everything that Rick said except I prefer my 3X gun over my 2X. I suspect that all rivet guns, even those from the same company, are not the same.
I use the pneumatic squeezer a lot but nothing beats my old ATS small hand squeezer for setting plate nuts.
I have three hand squeezers and use two of them almost every day.
I can almost guarantee that a hand squeezer will not put in an "extra" hole like the pneumatic can if you get a bit tired or lazy.
My collection of bucking bars contain a lot of old modified farm tools, even one railway spike!
I have just purchase my first tungsten bucking bar. It is small, heavy, and works well for some jobs but I have gotten along without one for 20 years.
 
$800 for the system.

you still need to build a Cframe. Numatx will send you the plans. I had my father-in-law build the C-frame.probably $150-200 in 2"x4" tube steel. Not sure how much to weld it.

I figure I will get most of my money back when I am done when I sell it.
 
Squeezer

I like and use the pneumatic sometimes but usually reach for the hand squeezer first for the control it offers. Set up is quicker too.

Don Broussard A&P IA
RV 9 rebuild in progress
 
Avery's economy hand squeezer with 2" yoke is $80. I use mine whenever I can because it's light, simple and versatile, as Rick said. For the smaller parts with just a few rivets, it's nice to just pick it out of the toolbox, adjust it, squeeze and be done, rather than drag out the air hose and the clunky pneumatic. BUT-- my hands are small and pretty weak, so when I have to squeeze 1/8" rivets, I turn to the pneumatic. (Or just get Ben to squeeze it. :D)

I don't like the $300 Avery squeezer for the same reason as the pneumatic. It's too big and clunky for my hands. I have much more strength and control with the economy squeezer. Can't imagine building a plane without it.

rv6rick said:
Tip-the key to riveting is being creative and comfortable. NEVER forget this :).
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Hear-hear!
 
One other thing...

The nice thing about the hand rivet squeezer is that by the time you are done building with one, you will have a handshake that can crush a Super Hero!
 
I really prefer my hand squeezer over anything else when I have easy access and there are only about 15 or 20 (max) rivets to be squeezed. Otherwise, I either get the rivet gun or use the pneumatic squeezer.
 
Cleco Pliers too..

N941WR said:
The nice thing about the hand rivet squeezer is that by the time you are done building with one, you will have a handshake that can crush a Super Hero!
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..using the cleco pliers and installing a cleco in every hole for both match-drilling and riveting will also give you the "handshake of death." :D
 
Almost done with the empennage and have used a pneumatic squeezer. Works great. Have not encountered anything yet where I felt a hand squeezer would be better/easier. My pneumatic squeezer takes one hand to operate, or no hands when I mount it to my c-frame and attach a foot pedal. I also like the numatx squeezer system and may upgrade to that soon.
 
I like having both...

I went all in and have both pneumatic and hand squeezers.

When I have a big row of rivets, it is nice to have the consistency and of the pneumatic.

When I have just a couple, the hand squeezer is the go to tool.

Also +1 for a 4" no-hole and a longeron yoke. I use these *all* the time.

I'm sure I could have built with only pneumatic or only hand squeezers, but why? Use the right tool for the job -- you'll be happier.
 
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