Van's Air Force
Don't miss anything! Register now for full access to the definitive RV support community.
Bird strike
- Thread starter Ham
- Start date
During my -4 checkout with a CFI, he told me a story of one of his students who forgot to latch the canopy & it departed on takeoff. They were able to keep their head beneath the canopy line/airstream and land fine. I'd say the same would be true for a birdstrike; the difference being both the bird and consequent shards of plexi are projectiles; survive that and you're back to keeping your head down and getting on the ground.
This is all speculation, of course, as I've never had to deal with hitting a bird. Deer, sure...but not a bird! Curious to hear what others say, though! I'm new to the RV world and still learning a lot about the -4.
This is all speculation, of course, as I've never had to deal with hitting a bird. Deer, sure...but not a bird! Curious to hear what others say, though! I'm new to the RV world and still learning a lot about the -4.
Mike S
Senior Curmudgeon
Santa must have been upset.........................
Well, after first confirming I wasn't deceased or unconscious, I'd spit out any feathers that accumulated in my mouth. Then proceed on a case-by-case basis. A bird through the canopy - or lost completely - is going to warrant either an immediate off-field emergency landing, or landing at the nearest field.
Additional thought. If you haven't lost the canopy entirely, I'd slow the plane as much as practical. The increased pressure in the cabin due to the prop wash/slipstream entering though the hole might take it off. Then you have to worry about the canopy taking the vertical stab with it. All in all, this would be a very bad deal.
Just my 2 cents.
Last edited:
erich weaver
Well Known Member
1 fly the plane
2 fly the plane
3 fly the plane
2 fly the plane
3 fly the plane
Sid Lambert
Well Known Member
When you first start flying the -4 you notice how close your face is to the screen. I think at that time you come to the realization that if you take a large bird in the screen that both of you will be dead.
I need to replace the canopy on mine because of some small cracks around the edge. I plan on using Todd's because it is thicker and will add a little more protection.
I need to replace the canopy on mine because of some small cracks around the edge. I plan on using Todd's because it is thicker and will add a little more protection.
Video of Bird Strike C210
I know it isn't a RV-4, but AVWEB had a video of a bird strike in a C-210. It is pretty amazing what a 2 pound goose could do to the window. The guys were lucky - it went between them. Interesting to watch and it makes me consider a helmet - really consider it!
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Bird-Strike-Caught-On-Video221263-1.html
I know it isn't a RV-4, but AVWEB had a video of a bird strike in a C-210. It is pretty amazing what a 2 pound goose could do to the window. The guys were lucky - it went between them. Interesting to watch and it makes me consider a helmet - really consider it!
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Bird-Strike-Caught-On-Video221263-1.html
Canopy lost ....
So here at KORK, North Little Rock is a older friend of ours with a RV4. Many years ago, he and his wife Marion were flying home from the Bartlesville air show just cruising about 160 mph and his canopy suddenly decided it didn't want to go home with them and it came off like a zipper. This was the one that caused Vans to do just a little re-engineering to make sure it didn't happen again.
He said it somehow hit him in the head as it came off and cut the top of his head (he says he still doesn't know how) but it was bleeding into his eyes. His headset and glasses departed the airplane but his wife managed to keep hers. The canopy hit the VS hard enough to put a large dent in the leading edge but didn't bend the spar or lock up the rudder. Everything pretty much stayed in place and he managed to maintain control of the airplane. It made the papers and created quite a stir when he landed sans canopy.
He said the biggest problem once he regained control was reestablishing where he was with limited eyesight. He couldn't communicate with his wife in the back seat who could see but couldn't navigate. The windblast was almost unbearable until he got the airplane slowed down. As he remembers it, he knew he was north of the Arkansas river and just headed south till he saw the outline of the river and then turned left for North Little Rock. Not sure what other nav equipment he had but this was maybe 20 years ago and he was having to shield his eyes from the windblast with one hand and fly with the other.
Funny aside, that since then he decided he wanted to fly the 4 with an open cockpit and built a windshield that he could replace the canopy with. Said after he went to all that work, he only flew it a couple of times. He said it was great and all kinds of fun ,..... until you got much over 70 and then it was waaaaaayyy too much open
Anyway, that's the story as I remember him telling it. You could drop into KORK on the fourth Saturday of the month and catch him at the EAA lunch and get the first hand story. He still flys the 4 and has an 8 as well.
Bill
So here at KORK, North Little Rock is a older friend of ours with a RV4. Many years ago, he and his wife Marion were flying home from the Bartlesville air show just cruising about 160 mph and his canopy suddenly decided it didn't want to go home with them and it came off like a zipper. This was the one that caused Vans to do just a little re-engineering to make sure it didn't happen again.
He said it somehow hit him in the head as it came off and cut the top of his head (he says he still doesn't know how) but it was bleeding into his eyes. His headset and glasses departed the airplane but his wife managed to keep hers. The canopy hit the VS hard enough to put a large dent in the leading edge but didn't bend the spar or lock up the rudder. Everything pretty much stayed in place and he managed to maintain control of the airplane. It made the papers and created quite a stir when he landed sans canopy.
He said the biggest problem once he regained control was reestablishing where he was with limited eyesight. He couldn't communicate with his wife in the back seat who could see but couldn't navigate. The windblast was almost unbearable until he got the airplane slowed down. As he remembers it, he knew he was north of the Arkansas river and just headed south till he saw the outline of the river and then turned left for North Little Rock. Not sure what other nav equipment he had but this was maybe 20 years ago and he was having to shield his eyes from the windblast with one hand and fly with the other.
Funny aside, that since then he decided he wanted to fly the 4 with an open cockpit and built a windshield that he could replace the canopy with. Said after he went to all that work, he only flew it a couple of times. He said it was great and all kinds of fun ,..... until you got much over 70 and then it was waaaaaayyy too much open
Anyway, that's the story as I remember him telling it. You could drop into KORK on the fourth Saturday of the month and catch him at the EAA lunch and get the first hand story. He still flys the 4 and has an 8 as well.
Bill
Last edited:
Not to hijack the thread from RV's, I have a bird strike story that is a bit different. I was working for a Part 135 operator of helicopters. We got a call that one of our Bell 206's was down at an airport with windshield damage from a bird strike. I was dispatched to inspect the ship for damage and try to get the ship flyable to ferry back. When I got there there was about a 1 ft diameter hole in the windshield, but the pilot was missing. Some folks in the FBO told me that he was taken to the hospital for minor injuries. After taping up the windshield (yes, duct tape) I waited for the pilot to return as he was my ride home. When he showed, I immediately noticed his chest bandages and some minor facial cuts. As the story unfolded, it seems, the pilot recalled seeing the red tail hawk at the last minute, as it spread wings and presented talons in an attack posture. The hawk came through the windshield at about 120 kts and alive enough, clenched its talons in the pilots chest and was flapping its broken wings wildly for a few seconds before succumbing to its injuries. Apparently the talons stayed clenched and the hawk remained hanging from his chest until landing a few minutes later at the airport. As you can guess the chest injuries were from the talons and required stitches. I was impressed that the pilot kept his wits about him to fly first and worry about the pain second.
Before departing the airport, the local state game warden showed up collected the hawks remains, and identified it as a red tail, at that time an endangered species. To add insult to injury the pilot was fined $250 for killing and endangered species. Couldn't even keep a few feathers as a reminder of the day.
Before departing the airport, the local state game warden showed up collected the hawks remains, and identified it as a red tail, at that time an endangered species. To add insult to injury the pilot was fined $250 for killing and endangered species. Couldn't even keep a few feathers as a reminder of the day.
Re. the helmet to defend against a bird to the face. Agreed, your face will be good (if you have the visor down), but tell me about your neck. Just not sure it'll keep you in flying condition after catching a big bird in the face. Think about taking a 85-90 mph fast ball to the face. They weigh less than 6 ounces.
Last edited:
Loss Of Canopy
I'm not sure how many pilots have survived a complete canopy loss in an RV4, but it happened to me....and since you asked, here is my experience:
Back in 2002, on February 3rd, a day which I will never forget, I was goofing around and showing off the performance of my RV4 to a bunch of former hang gliding buddies waiting to launch off a hill at Lake McClure, in the foothills of the California Sierra Nevada mountains.
I snuck up on the launch site from behind at about 1000 ft above the mountain, stalled the plane and dove towards the landing area, way surpassing the recommended VNE of the plane (around 230 mph when I last checked). I then pulled as hard as I could for a near vertical climb and as close to the ground as possible....stupid, ignorant and inexperienced as I was.
The pull registered 7 G's on my G meter, and nearly caused me to black out. The one thing I'll never forget in my blue skyward daze, was an instant "puff" of air hitting me in my face...a mili-second before the massive explosion of the canopy loss...
Getting hit in the face with a sudden blast of 200 mph plus air is no joke. It felt like a brick hit me square in the forehead. I was instantly blinded from the furocious blast of wind. I lost my glasses, hat and headphones as the canopy ripped off the right side of the plane (as it was designed, thank God) tearing a gash in the right skin of the rudder.
The best I could do, realizing the shock, was to try to regain my breath, composure and then level the plane on the horizon. The gages were impossible to see. Once I realized that I wasn't dead, I simply tried to head the plane into the west...and back to my airport 25 minutes away in the freezing cold air.
Fortunately, I had some visibility in one eye. I slowed the plane as best as I could, but I still had no forward visibility and had to navigate following a river looking off the side of the plane. Good fortune has it, I made it back to an extended final to my airport field at Turlock. I could see forward only when I put the plane in a full-rudder right slip, with one visible eye....
I (fortunatly) managed to land the plane on the first try. I was so stunned and relieved to be on the ground, that I shut the plane down on the runway without taxiing back to my hangar. I sustained two black eyes from the wind blast and my face was swollen for a week....
I know this experience will probably spurr a bunch of comments like "what an idiot"... Point is, I learned my lesson and went on to fly 700 hours on that first RV4. I then bought a Christen Eagle, learned some aerobatics, a V-Tail Bonanza which I lost an engine on a 2010 California trip, just 10 miles from my destination of Oshkosh.
I've since owned an RV6 and now another 4, my favorite airplane.....but I never do anything stupid like exceeding the Vne with that 7 G pull out.
I consider myself lucky, and smart enough to have bought a great plane that will suit me for quite some time. But I'm always leary of loosing the canopy, and I've installed a canopy latch. Wearing a helmet is something that after refreshing my memory of this incident, is something that I would now consider...good for bird strikes too.
I'm not sure how many pilots have survived a complete canopy loss in an RV4, but it happened to me....and since you asked, here is my experience:
Back in 2002, on February 3rd, a day which I will never forget, I was goofing around and showing off the performance of my RV4 to a bunch of former hang gliding buddies waiting to launch off a hill at Lake McClure, in the foothills of the California Sierra Nevada mountains.
I snuck up on the launch site from behind at about 1000 ft above the mountain, stalled the plane and dove towards the landing area, way surpassing the recommended VNE of the plane (around 230 mph when I last checked). I then pulled as hard as I could for a near vertical climb and as close to the ground as possible....stupid, ignorant and inexperienced as I was.
The pull registered 7 G's on my G meter, and nearly caused me to black out. The one thing I'll never forget in my blue skyward daze, was an instant "puff" of air hitting me in my face...a mili-second before the massive explosion of the canopy loss...
Getting hit in the face with a sudden blast of 200 mph plus air is no joke. It felt like a brick hit me square in the forehead. I was instantly blinded from the furocious blast of wind. I lost my glasses, hat and headphones as the canopy ripped off the right side of the plane (as it was designed, thank God) tearing a gash in the right skin of the rudder.
The best I could do, realizing the shock, was to try to regain my breath, composure and then level the plane on the horizon. The gages were impossible to see. Once I realized that I wasn't dead, I simply tried to head the plane into the west...and back to my airport 25 minutes away in the freezing cold air.
Fortunately, I had some visibility in one eye. I slowed the plane as best as I could, but I still had no forward visibility and had to navigate following a river looking off the side of the plane. Good fortune has it, I made it back to an extended final to my airport field at Turlock. I could see forward only when I put the plane in a full-rudder right slip, with one visible eye....
I (fortunatly) managed to land the plane on the first try. I was so stunned and relieved to be on the ground, that I shut the plane down on the runway without taxiing back to my hangar. I sustained two black eyes from the wind blast and my face was swollen for a week....
I know this experience will probably spurr a bunch of comments like "what an idiot"... Point is, I learned my lesson and went on to fly 700 hours on that first RV4. I then bought a Christen Eagle, learned some aerobatics, a V-Tail Bonanza which I lost an engine on a 2010 California trip, just 10 miles from my destination of Oshkosh.
I've since owned an RV6 and now another 4, my favorite airplane.....but I never do anything stupid like exceeding the Vne with that 7 G pull out.
I consider myself lucky, and smart enough to have bought a great plane that will suit me for quite some time. But I'm always leary of loosing the canopy, and I've installed a canopy latch. Wearing a helmet is something that after refreshing my memory of this incident, is something that I would now consider...good for bird strikes too.
Sid Lambert
Well Known Member
Wow, what a story!
Do you have any idea what cause the canopy to sheer away? 7 Gs isn't enough to distort the fuselage and 230 MPH is done all the time in the Rockets.
Was the latch not completely engaged?
Do you have any idea what cause the canopy to sheer away? 7 Gs isn't enough to distort the fuselage and 230 MPH is done all the time in the Rockets.
Was the latch not completely engaged?
precession
Well Known Member
Yes, that is some story.
I'd like to hear exactly what happened on these various occasions when the canopy departed the aircraft. In other words, did the canopy and canopy frame leave the aircraft together, with the canopy tearing right off at the piano hinge? Or did the frame remain on the aircraft and just the plexiglass ripped off the frame and departed by itself? (I'm guessing the former.)
Lots of 4s have the hinged aluminum arm that holds keeps the canopy from flopping over too far when you open it and lots have gas struts, while I am just using a piece of string. I'm assuming all of those just get ripped off once the canopy opens(?).
I fly with a chute while doing aerobatics and while I'm betting I'll never do anything to cause the 4 to break, I do wonder how that canopy will act if for any reason i ever feel the need to bail and open it up intentionally. Obviously, you'd want it to tear away cleanly (I know Extras and others have specially designed canopy hinges so they do), but I have visions of it trying to hold on at the hinge and flopping back and forth creating a hazard.....?
I'd like to hear exactly what happened on these various occasions when the canopy departed the aircraft. In other words, did the canopy and canopy frame leave the aircraft together, with the canopy tearing right off at the piano hinge? Or did the frame remain on the aircraft and just the plexiglass ripped off the frame and departed by itself? (I'm guessing the former.)
Lots of 4s have the hinged aluminum arm that holds keeps the canopy from flopping over too far when you open it and lots have gas struts, while I am just using a piece of string. I'm assuming all of those just get ripped off once the canopy opens(?).
I fly with a chute while doing aerobatics and while I'm betting I'll never do anything to cause the 4 to break, I do wonder how that canopy will act if for any reason i ever feel the need to bail and open it up intentionally. Obviously, you'd want it to tear away cleanly (I know Extras and others have specially designed canopy hinges so they do), but I have visions of it trying to hold on at the hinge and flopping back and forth creating a hazard.....?
Sid Lambert
Well Known Member
I've seen the aftermath of an unlatched -4 canopy. He hit about 100 MPH and it came off clean. Most people attach the open stops to the cross piece that sits right behind the roll bar when closed and that will rip off instantly from what I've seen.
The plans call for a soft pop rivet in the piano hinge on the side so it can come off like the Extra.
My plan for a water ditch is to open the canopy at 100 MPH so it departs fully.
The plans call for a soft pop rivet in the piano hinge on the side so it can come off like the Extra.
My plan for a water ditch is to open the canopy at 100 MPH so it departs fully.
Yeah Sid, I lost a canopy because I failed to secure it. I was taking off and shortly after rotation & about 100mph it blew off as though it had explosive bolts. I mean GONE!! I aborted TO & landed OK. The canopy cleared the plane without further damage. It was attached as you stated above; and, I must say, worked according to Van's plans.
An aside, I had a builder friend there that really wanted to fly it without the canopy. I told him it was NOT at all pleasant behind that blast. I agreed to let him as he was a competent pilot and would give me his plane if he crashed mine. We tried to strap some sunglasses on him. He took off and made a restricted circuit. His face looked like he'd been beaten by 30 thugs wielding tennis rackets.
I was impressed by his fortitude. He wanted to know it could be done. Yes, it can be done; but it is NOT a fun experience without a windscreen. I support your ditching plan based on my own experience.
Geez, let's hope we don't have to do it. And Michael, my goodness, what a story indeed. Man, I'm glad you're still among us!!! WOW.
Let's be safe out there!! Cheers,
precession
Well Known Member
Hadn't thought of that. Sounds like a good idea. One more thing to remember though, right? And now you are trying to make your very best landing on a surface that provides horrible depth perception, and might be rolling, all with a massive wind in your face, and especially if you are not wearing eyewear .... whew, that's a lot to deal with.
precession
Well Known Member
I am glad to hear that in the situations mentioned the canopy blew off cleanly.
Obviously, wearing a helmet and visor would provide the ultimate protection, but realistically how many non-airshow and non-military pilots do? Short of wearing a helmet, this entire discussion makes me think it would be advisable, when you aren't wearing sunglasses, to at least wear some kind of clear eye protection, like safety glasses or sunglasses with clear lenses.
Back to the initial bird strike question, I had heard the spinning prop will hopefully provide you with protection; however, the pilot of the C-210 in the recent youtube video showing the Canada goose coming through the windscreen said afterwards there was blood on all three prop blades, which obviously indicates it went right through the prop. So much for that theory.
Once on a trip back from FL to the northeast I was droning along fat, dumb and happy around 5,500' or 7,500' when suddenly and seemingly outta nowhere in a perfectly clear sky I had about 4 Canada geese right in front of me and before I could even react they slipped maybe 20' or less beneath my wings. Had never seen any at those type of altitudes before and haven't since. A real eye-opener, and not one I was happy to see.
Obviously, wearing a helmet and visor would provide the ultimate protection, but realistically how many non-airshow and non-military pilots do? Short of wearing a helmet, this entire discussion makes me think it would be advisable, when you aren't wearing sunglasses, to at least wear some kind of clear eye protection, like safety glasses or sunglasses with clear lenses.
Back to the initial bird strike question, I had heard the spinning prop will hopefully provide you with protection; however, the pilot of the C-210 in the recent youtube video showing the Canada goose coming through the windscreen said afterwards there was blood on all three prop blades, which obviously indicates it went right through the prop. So much for that theory.
Once on a trip back from FL to the northeast I was droning along fat, dumb and happy around 5,500' or 7,500' when suddenly and seemingly outta nowhere in a perfectly clear sky I had about 4 Canada geese right in front of me and before I could even react they slipped maybe 20' or less beneath my wings. Had never seen any at those type of altitudes before and haven't since. A real eye-opener, and not one I was happy to see.
Last edited:
acam37
Well Known Member
Safety glasses
All Oakley sunglasses are Z87.1 rated. Expensive, but will protect your eyes if a bird happens to make an unannounced visit inside your plane.
I wonder how a Todd's canopy holds up compared to a stock Vans canopy? I took a cut off piece of my Todd's canopy and tried to break it. It just bent in half and creased.
All Oakley sunglasses are Z87.1 rated. Expensive, but will protect your eyes if a bird happens to make an unannounced visit inside your plane.
I wonder how a Todd's canopy holds up compared to a stock Vans canopy? I took a cut off piece of my Todd's canopy and tried to break it. It just bent in half and creased.
RVbySDI
Well Known Member
2 years ago on a trip back from the in-laws my wife and I were cruising along at 12,500 ft. It was around 7:30pm in July, so getting late in the day. Up ahead in the distance off to the right about 2 o'clock my wife pointed and asked: "What is that"? At our altitude (did I mention we were at 12,500 ft?) moving pretty much perpendicular to our path was a flock of about 20-30 geese flying in single file formation. We watched them pass in front of us maybe 300-400 ft directly in front of us. We were never in danger due to the fact that we actually did spot them and were able to track them while we were in close proximity to them. The entire incident took about 30 seconds from the time my wife spotted the geese until we passed behind the last one in line. I would have never thought in my wildest dreams I would have seen a flock of geese late in the day at 12,500 ft.
precession
Well Known Member
Amazing (though not in a good way).
David Paule
Well Known Member
Saw a bald eagle once at 16,500'. We mutually ensured adequate clearance but he wasn't worried about my plane.
And once had a golden eagle make an attack pass on my Cessna 180. I was at about 1,500 AGL and about 155 mph and saw the bird dive past my right wing, turn, unfurl and set up for an attack - and then reconsider and dive away. The whole episode only took a few seconds.
Never had a bird impact, but a friend had a pelican crash into his homebuilt Volmer amphib. Put a hole in the plywood fuselage that he patched with a pelican-shaped patch. He was pretty low at the time, off the coast a bit. I wasn't doing over 70 or 80 mph at the time; the pelican simply turned the wrong way at the wrong time.
When I ordered my RV-3B canopy from Todd's, I ordered the thicker material in the hope of a bit more protection from bird strikes.
Dave
And once had a golden eagle make an attack pass on my Cessna 180. I was at about 1,500 AGL and about 155 mph and saw the bird dive past my right wing, turn, unfurl and set up for an attack - and then reconsider and dive away. The whole episode only took a few seconds.
Never had a bird impact, but a friend had a pelican crash into his homebuilt Volmer amphib. Put a hole in the plywood fuselage that he patched with a pelican-shaped patch. He was pretty low at the time, off the coast a bit. I wasn't doing over 70 or 80 mph at the time; the pelican simply turned the wrong way at the wrong time.
When I ordered my RV-3B canopy from Todd's, I ordered the thicker material in the hope of a bit more protection from bird strikes.
Dave
Raining Birds
My wife and I were in our Mooney at 8000', in-between gray layers of about 500' separation. Felt like being in a cave. Just ahead of us a mallard duck fell tumbling out of the overcast. It regained normal flight when it saw the false horizon of the layers and we flew under it. Two lessons learned: 1) birds are VFR-only capable and , 2) the suckers can be IN the clouds with you!
My wife and I were in our Mooney at 8000', in-between gray layers of about 500' separation. Felt like being in a cave. Just ahead of us a mallard duck fell tumbling out of the overcast. It regained normal flight when it saw the false horizon of the layers and we flew under it. Two lessons learned: 1) birds are VFR-only capable and , 2) the suckers can be IN the clouds with you!
My second hand, anecdotal experience with bird strikes and helmets from my days as a Navy flight instructor (t-34's)-
An instructor in back seat and student in front were cruising at maybe 10,000' maybe 120 KIAS. Hit a turkey buzzard that came through the windscreen, knocked the student and instructor out cold (both with helmets). Instructor came to, blind and with blood and guts all over his face - thought they were in a mid air. Call student over intercomm, got no answer. Was blind and felt no control response. Called the student to bail out and then instructor went over the side. On the way down in the parachute, he was able to regain partial sight in one eye by clearing the goo from his face. Landed in a forest, made his way to a phone and called base. Was informed that the student regained conscience and flew the airplane to the closest field and performed a flawless emergency landing.
Both had on helmets, both were knocked unconscientious. Helmet visor caused sever face lacerations. So I guess the moral is, even with helmets, taking a bird through the windscreen is a bad day. Would it have been worse in this case helmetless?? - probably so. Best bet is to try to protect your face (eyes and brain) if you can see it coming. In this case, neither saw it coming.
Fly safe
An instructor in back seat and student in front were cruising at maybe 10,000' maybe 120 KIAS. Hit a turkey buzzard that came through the windscreen, knocked the student and instructor out cold (both with helmets). Instructor came to, blind and with blood and guts all over his face - thought they were in a mid air. Call student over intercomm, got no answer. Was blind and felt no control response. Called the student to bail out and then instructor went over the side. On the way down in the parachute, he was able to regain partial sight in one eye by clearing the goo from his face. Landed in a forest, made his way to a phone and called base. Was informed that the student regained conscience and flew the airplane to the closest field and performed a flawless emergency landing.
Both had on helmets, both were knocked unconscientious. Helmet visor caused sever face lacerations. So I guess the moral is, even with helmets, taking a bird through the windscreen is a bad day. Would it have been worse in this case helmetless?? - probably so. Best bet is to try to protect your face (eyes and brain) if you can see it coming. In this case, neither saw it coming.
Fly safe
Moondog
Well Known Member
Z87.1 Standards
Agreed. When a bird hits with enough force to penetrate the plexiglas canopy, any eyewear could break. CR-39 lenses (regular plastic) are very likely to shatter. Polycarbonate is stronger. Poly which meets Z87 Standards ?safety glasses? is even better, but a helmet/visor is best.
Actually, Oakley's claim is ?Most Oakley Eyewear meets or exceeds ANSI Z87.1 standards ....? So it seems some do not. How can we tell? We can't. If the glasses don't have Z87 markings on the lenses (a required component of Z87 Standards), then we can only guess.
Agreed. When a bird hits with enough force to penetrate the plexiglas canopy, any eyewear could break. CR-39 lenses (regular plastic) are very likely to shatter. Polycarbonate is stronger. Poly which meets Z87 Standards ?safety glasses? is even better, but a helmet/visor is best.
Actually, Oakley's claim is ?Most Oakley Eyewear meets or exceeds ANSI Z87.1 standards ....? So it seems some do not. How can we tell? We can't. If the glasses don't have Z87 markings on the lenses (a required component of Z87 Standards), then we can only guess.
acam37
Well Known Member
Oakleys
Yes, you are right about that. I work in the oilfield as a safety tech and have argued that point countless times. However I got over-ruled by my superiors and gave up the fight. My HGU/55P is supposed to be rated for a 600mph ejection so I pray it would save my eyesight enough to get the plane back on the ground.
I wore my Ray-Bans in my uncles bi-plane and as soon as we rotated the wind blast around the windscreen tried to take them off, so like what was mentioned earlier nothing short of aviator goggles would stay on your face.
Yes, you are right about that. I work in the oilfield as a safety tech and have argued that point countless times. However I got over-ruled by my superiors and gave up the fight. My HGU/55P is supposed to be rated for a 600mph ejection so I pray it would save my eyesight enough to get the plane back on the ground.
I wore my Ray-Bans in my uncles bi-plane and as soon as we rotated the wind blast around the windscreen tried to take them off, so like what was mentioned earlier nothing short of aviator goggles would stay on your face.
smokyray
Well Known Member
Bang!
Bird-strike or canopy loss in my Four? in 2000 hours, none. However comma, I had several Bird Strikes in the F-16 one of which was at 500' AGL/500 Knots. The impact was characterized by a flash followed by a loud bang, airframe vibration and a slight nudge on my cranium.
Procedure? As mentioned above, RV4, F16 or whatever:
1. Maintain aircraft control. (climb!)
2. Analyze situation
3. Take appropriate action.
Canopy Loss: The best action is prevention. I never lost my canopy in my RV4 as I made sure I had a good backup plan to keep it attached if the main latch failed. I installed a backup latch on the roll bar that pinned through the canopy skirt making it nearly impossible to open unless removed.
In 2000 hours in my RV4 and my much faster Rocket I never came close to "losing it..." I have witnessed two RV4 canopy losses and both landed without incident although the canopy struck the tail on both.
Bird Strike: In the F16 world we always flew with a visor down below 5000' AGL to protect our eyes in such an impact, not so much from the bird but from the shattered glass or plexiglass. We also treated any bird strike as it was an engine failure until proven otherwise...CLIMB, trade airspeed for altitude and look for a suitable emergency field. Also, I recommend good impact resistant shades, Oakley ballistic eye wear is tested for impact resistance and has protected soldiers in Combat from bullet fragments. Know your cockpit and switch locations. Practice a blindfold cockpit check occasionally in case you're temporarily blinded. Avoid low levels over bird migration routes (rivers, wetlands) or avoid low level below 1000' altogether unless you're landing. Also, practice a few landings with simulated impaired forward visibility (slip).
The best plan is Vigilance....
V/R
Smokey
F16-1 Bird-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibJ3aXrvaCs
F16 Canopy Bird strike test
Ham,
Bird-strike or canopy loss in my Four? in 2000 hours, none. However comma, I had several Bird Strikes in the F-16 one of which was at 500' AGL/500 Knots. The impact was characterized by a flash followed by a loud bang, airframe vibration and a slight nudge on my cranium.
Procedure? As mentioned above, RV4, F16 or whatever:
1. Maintain aircraft control. (climb!)
2. Analyze situation
3. Take appropriate action.
Canopy Loss: The best action is prevention. I never lost my canopy in my RV4 as I made sure I had a good backup plan to keep it attached if the main latch failed. I installed a backup latch on the roll bar that pinned through the canopy skirt making it nearly impossible to open unless removed.
In 2000 hours in my RV4 and my much faster Rocket I never came close to "losing it..." I have witnessed two RV4 canopy losses and both landed without incident although the canopy struck the tail on both.
Bird Strike: In the F16 world we always flew with a visor down below 5000' AGL to protect our eyes in such an impact, not so much from the bird but from the shattered glass or plexiglass. We also treated any bird strike as it was an engine failure until proven otherwise...CLIMB, trade airspeed for altitude and look for a suitable emergency field. Also, I recommend good impact resistant shades, Oakley ballistic eye wear is tested for impact resistance and has protected soldiers in Combat from bullet fragments. Know your cockpit and switch locations. Practice a blindfold cockpit check occasionally in case you're temporarily blinded. Avoid low levels over bird migration routes (rivers, wetlands) or avoid low level below 1000' altogether unless you're landing. Also, practice a few landings with simulated impaired forward visibility (slip).
The best plan is Vigilance....
V/R
Smokey
F16-1 Bird-0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibJ3aXrvaCs
F16 Canopy Bird strike test
Last edited:
n5lp
fugio ergo sum
Well it probably doesn't matter, as any large bird through the windscreen is bad news, but I wonder if this was really a turkey vulture (which I think is what is meant). This bird is a huge favorite of mine and we have large populations of them in the warm months and I watch them carefully.
I worry about these birds when flying the nearby mountains but over years and years I have realized that I have never seen one up high and have seen thousands at altitudes below 1,000 AGL, usually right around 500 AGL.
In the same area I have seen many hawks and miscellaneous other large birds such as sandhill cranes at altitudes above 12,000 MSL while flying gliders.
If anyone has good evidence of turkey vultures at higher altitudes, I would like to hear about it.
smokyray
Well Known Member
Vultures on high...
Larry,
I have seen Vultures (FL "unofficial" state bird) many times in the 737 on the arrival to MCO above 10K, usually circling the base of CB's...We have had several Vulture strikes on 737 airframes.
Vultures, although tough come out on the short end...
V/R
Smokey
Larry,
I have seen Vultures (FL "unofficial" state bird) many times in the 737 on the arrival to MCO above 10K, usually circling the base of CB's...We have had several Vulture strikes on 737 airframes.
Vultures, although tough come out on the short end...
V/R
Smokey
n5lp
fugio ergo sum
Thank you Smokey. This caused me to Google around some. Most of the references say they can be found up to 5,000 MSL but usually much lower. It also seems they will fly much higher when migrating than when hunting and black vultures will fly higher than turkey vultures.
If you see them, they are there and the difference from my observations may even have to do with location.
I am fascinated every Spring during windy weather to see them soaring at barely above tree top height using some mysterious form of lift that I can't understand. You can be in one spot and hundreds will fly by, just above the yard, with no wing flapping.
Fantastic birds!
Smokyray - thanks for the advice. I fly out of CAP3 on BC's Sunshine Coast, so gulls and eagles are commonplace, often well above circuit height. I'll look into the Oakley eyewear. Perhaps a helmet too, though I'd have to remove part of the seat cushion to get low enough to avoid the canopy.
A picture of your secondary canopy latch would be helpful in figuring one out, if you have one.
Now, where's my blindfold?
Thanks again,
Ham
A picture of your secondary canopy latch would be helpful in figuring one out, if you have one.
Now, where's my blindfold?
Thanks again,
Ham
BillL
Well Known Member
A little off aerial bird topic, but once driving west from Lafayette, IN to Peoria,IL on the 2 lane state roads I encountered icing conditions. It was so bad I saw a Great Blue Heron that had executed an emergency landing and was just sitting on the side of the road ladened with heavy ice. So - -they don't fly well in icing (either), but apparently try.
