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  #1  
Old 04-29-2017, 04:55 PM
Machsandy Machsandy is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: England
Posts: 25
Default RV10 doors and ditching

Does anyone have any views or information about RV10 doors separating in flight. I am aware it may have been a factor in previous accidents.
My question is based on concern on being able to open a door after ditching and whether it would be a possibility to open a door in flight and whether it would then separate from the aircraft?
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  #2  
Old 04-29-2017, 05:51 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
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Default Uh...

Pretty sure if you intentionally opened a door in flight it would separate...it may also hit the tail on the way out...
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  #3  
Old 04-29-2017, 06:52 PM
togaflyer togaflyer is offline
 
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Dont worry about the doors. They need to be open prior to ditching. Anyway, losing the doors will not matter and actually it may be a good thing when exiting. With fix gear, probably, the plane will flip once the landing gear hits the water. A good drill to practice is sitting in the plane with your eyes close (on the ground without the engine running and feeling for the door area, putting it to memory. The plane is going to sink to the bottom with or without the doors attached.
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  #4  
Old 04-29-2017, 11:10 PM
dhmoose dhmoose is offline
 
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Location: Portland, OR
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Default Doors will separate

There have been numerous examples of RV-10 doors opening and separating in flight (pre-safety latch). I don't know anyone who has opened a door in flight and had it remain attached. You can search the NTSB database for -10 accidents and read more details but I'm 98% certain that during a ditching event, the doors will quickly depart and leave you with a clear egress path. I'm also quite certain that most door separations missed hitting the tail but if your ditching, I doubt a tail impact will matter much

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  #5  
Old 04-30-2017, 06:36 AM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
 
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Location: X35 - Ocala, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhmoose View Post
There have been numerous examples of RV-10 doors opening and separating in flight (pre-safety latch). I don't know anyone who has opened a door in flight and had it remain attached. You can search the NTSB database for -10 accidents and read more details but I'm 98% certain that during a ditching event, the doors will quickly depart and leave you with a clear egress path. I'm also quite certain that most door separations missed hitting the tail but if your ditching, I doubt a tail impact will matter much

David
There are plenty of examples of doors opening in flight and not separating, but the 2 I know of personally were caught quickly by hand. The most recent had the 'piece of junk' safety latch installed and installed correctly and it didn't keep it closed. There have been several other cases that used the Saint Aviation safety strap and they were non-events.

For ditching, I would open at least one door, but only in a nose-high attitude. There was one case that I know of that opened in level/cruise flight that came off and hit the HS, fortunately not jamming the elevator. I did the repair on this plane, and the whole tailcone was bent due to the impact of the door on the HS.
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  #6  
Old 04-30-2017, 07:42 AM
RV10Pilot RV10Pilot is offline
 
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Location: Medford, NJ USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse View Post
There have been several other cases that used the Saint Aviation safety strap and they were non-events.
Ok Jesse, I'll bite. What is the "Saint Aviation Safety Strap".

Last edited by RV10Pilot : 04-30-2017 at 07:44 AM.
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  #7  
Old 04-30-2017, 05:29 PM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Were those that lost their doors at cruise speed? I do know of one -10 that had its door hit the HS and twist the entire tail cone. The guy was lucky to get his plane on the ground.

That said, if you slowed the the -10 down for best ditching approach speed, would the doors still rip off?
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  #8  
Old 04-30-2017, 05:33 PM
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Bill Boyd Bill Boyd is offline
 
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Default Too many variables - even for computer modeling

... we need Myth Busters to weigh in here with some real empirical data
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  #9  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:15 PM
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Jesse Jesse is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV10Pilot View Post
Ok Jesse, I'll bite. What is the "Saint Aviation Safety Strap".
There may be some people on here that have the straps that could send pictures. It's a strap (leather, webbing, etc.) that attaches to the lower forward arm of the gear leg weld Kent and goes around the door handle. Let's the door open about 2-4", but keeps it attached. Has been tested several times in flight (accidentally) and it keeps the doors attached.

The one I am aware of that hit the tail was in the Atlanta area. How about yours, N941WR?

I think the angle of attack is more the issue than the speed. At lower speeds the door would be less likely to rip off if level. At high angle of attack (takeoff-ish), the relative wind is much more likely to rip the door off, in which case it would clear the tail based on my knowledge of doors that have come off. If I were to ditch, I would, at about 1,000', drop my nose to pick up some speed. Then, at about 500', let the door open and pull up, trading airspeed for angle of attack (obviously taking care not to stall), and let the door depart, then drop the nose for best glide, and slow to hopefully a full stall right above the water, hoping to not go over.

What do the experts say about flaps or no flaps for ditching in a fixed gear plane?
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  #10  
Old 04-30-2017, 09:27 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is online now
 
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I think many recommend against a deliberate full stall 'landing' due to the difficulty of judging height under certain (smooth) water conditions.
Myself, I'd go for full flaps. Slower is almost always better.
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