VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:18 AM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 789
Default Lycoming New Electronic Mag Osh 2019

At Oshkosh 2019, Lycoming announced their new electronic ignition system. It replaces the traditional magneto.
In the booth, I talked to the Subject Matter Expert about it.
I looks like a regular mag, uses a P lead and requires a redundant power source for certified aircraft.

The advantage I see is that it does not run software like a E Mag, but rather uses a Programable Logic Device that gets hard encoded during manufacturing. This means no software to update or get corrupted, but requires factory returns for firmware updates.

One disadvantage is that it doesn't self generate its own electricity, but the SME is working on that.
Another is the mechanical tach drive is tight. I talked to Garmin and the G3x can sense the RPM from the P lead if it works the same as the mechanical tachs.
__________________
John S

WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

Dues paid 2019, worth every penny

RV9A- Status: tail feathers done less tips
Wings done less tips and avionics
Fuselage 30%
www.pilotjohnsrv9.blogspot.com

Last edited by PilotjohnS : 07-27-2019 at 10:27 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-27-2019, 10:31 AM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,443
Default

Already discussed. Unit is a Surefly. https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/...gnition-system
__________________

Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 436.1 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 07-27-2019 at 10:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-27-2019, 11:54 AM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 8,895
Default

Yes, Surefly.

Lycoming's initial interest is the certified fleet operator who is currently spending a lot of money to overhaul Slicks at 500 hour intervals. The Surefly concept incorporates the Slick mag cap and harness, as well as the standard aircraft plugs, so the swap is painless. The installing mechanic adds only a power lead.

Their long term interest is the Type Certificate market...standard equipment EI on production aircraft.

My understanding is that Lycoming will specify a specific part number for each engine model. Initially all will be fixed timing, no advance schedule. They do plan to add an advance option, again tailored to specific engine model.

There were considerable revisions of the original Surefly to arrive at the current shared version. The Lycoming reps stated there will be no physical or mechanical difference between a standard Surefly purchased directly, and the certified Lycoming version. The only difference will be Lycoming's choice of advance schedule, which will vary by part number. At this time, Lycoming considers the advance schedules determined in the dyno rooms at Williamsport to be proprietary; they will not publish them.

The Surefly currently sold for EAB use offers a user-set choice of 18 through 30 degree fixed timing, as well as 18 to 30 base timing with an advance schedule. The current advance schedule is "one fits all", and as noted in previous discussion, appears to be fine for a parallel valve, while being too advanced for an angle valve. It will be interesting to see what becomes available after Lycoming settles on its own schedules.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-27-2019, 12:23 PM
bkervaski's Avatar
bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,333
Default

Quote:
The installing mechanic adds only a power lead.
Doesn't it also need a manifold pressure line?
__________________
RV-14A #140376
N196 (Flying)
2019 Bronze Lindy
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-27-2019, 12:27 PM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 8,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkervaski View Post
Doesn't it also need a manifold pressure line?
Not for the targeted retrofit market, which is fixed timing.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-27-2019, 12:34 PM
rv6ejguy's Avatar
rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,443
Default

Photos show a MAP connection point on the rear of the units which you'd have to connect to have MAP advance, which may be of more importance to Experimental users. As Dan points out, the Cert market is huge and probably what Surefly and Lycoming care about most. The Experimental market already has plenty of choices offering both more features and lower prices in some cases. Electroair also offers certified EIs but the Surefly price point will put a lot of hurt on their sales IMO.

If these are reliable, they should offer a fair cost savings to fleet operators jamming a lot of flight time per day on their engines. Good move on Lycoming's part, this should bring in a lot of revenue for them though it may hurt the mag overhaul shops.
__________________

Ross Farnham, Calgary, Alberta
Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 436.1 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html
http://sdsefi.com/cpi2.htm



Last edited by rv6ejguy : 07-27-2019 at 01:17 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-27-2019, 12:36 PM
bkervaski's Avatar
bkervaski bkervaski is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 1,333
Default

Quote:
Not for the targeted retrofit market, which is fixed timing.
So, if I understand correctly, without the manifold pressure tie-in you wouldn't get the starting benefits with the Lycoming part, you would have to use the Surefly part.
__________________
RV-14A #140376
N196 (Flying)
2019 Bronze Lindy
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-27-2019, 03:19 PM
Toobuilder's Avatar
Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,409
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bkervaski View Post
So, if I understand correctly, without the manifold pressure tie-in you wouldn't get the starting benefits with the Lycoming part, you would have to use the Surefly part.
If by "starting", you mean engine start, the MP line has little to do with that. All ignitions need to have a "start retard" mode to prevent kickback. This typically is sensed by low RPM or a discrete signal from the starter circuit, not MP.

But it does bring up a point of Lycomings intent WRT starts... Does it have this retard circuit or is the EI dead when cranking?
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI - Flying
RV-8 - Flying
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65 -flying
1984 L39C - flyable, available for sale

Last edited by Toobuilder : 07-27-2019 at 03:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:25 PM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 8,895
Default

A MAP line has nothing to do with starting. Start retard is built in.

With a Surefly and one non-impulse mag, start using the Surefly, while the magneto P-lead is grounded.

With a Surefly and an impulse-coupled mag, start using both.

With two Surefly units, start using both.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390

Last edited by DanH : 07-27-2019 at 05:27 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-27-2019, 05:51 PM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 8,895
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Photos show a MAP connection point on the rear of the units which you'd have to connect to have MAP advance, which may be of more importance to Experimental users. As Dan points out, the Cert market is huge and probably what Surefly and Lycoming care about most.
As noted previously, Lycoming intends to establish proprietary advance values for certified installations, at the Type Certificate level. In other words, they intend to deliver ignition advance on new engines and aircraft, as well as within the aftermarket

The Lycoming branded units are identical to the Surefly branded units. An EAB user may prefer the Lycoming vetted and certified advance values. The interesting thing to watch is what Surefly will do about their one-size-fits-all advance values when their partner is saying one size doesn't fit all.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:30 PM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.