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  #11  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:24 PM
nilberg nilberg is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Katy, TX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rapid_ascent View Post
Stein sells and Alt Air toggle switch valve. I stuck mine off to the left side of the panel since I don't plan on using it often and that gets it out of the main switch area. Plus you can route the tubing to the nearby G3 and etc. In your case you could put it above the G5 or possibly on the outboard side of it.
My Alt Air is for the fuel servo inlet, not the static.
I do however see I forgot to include an alternative for the static. I am not sure I’ll put it in the panel.
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  #12  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:27 PM
nilberg nilberg is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
Some thoughts:
- For the pMags recommend a simple on/off locking toggle switch (one for each) and a 5 amp pull breaker (do not use your VPX). To test the pMags you do a simple manual trip of the breaker. This also provides for a visual “breaker popped open” indication as compared to a blown fuse someplace buried in the panel. This eliminates the momentary toggle switch setup to test the pMags as well. BTW, I think you labeled your momentary switch wrong as is seems “off - on - test” is what you want. Off - pMag control off but pMags get ship power. On - pMag control on and pMags get ship power. Test (momentary) - pMag control on but you take away ship power to make sure the internal generator is working. DPDT switch is required.
- I assume both EFIS displays are fed via the VPX. What mitigations have you taken in the event the VPX fails to keep at least one display up and running. Note - the GTN-650 displays is not a viable backup.
- You have a selection between primary and backup alternator. If you use the nice B&C 20 amp standby alternator there is no need for a selector switch. The standby alternator automatically picks up the load. You will have indication of this by the B&C voltage regulator yellow indication light coming on, and buss voltage dropping from the typical 14.1vdc to 13.5vdc or so.
- I’d leave the G5 where it is. If you are really down to just that you want it in front of you and as high as possible.

Carl
I still need to ground the P—lead when testing, that is what I meant with test.

The P-Mags is powered outside the VPX.

Critical G3x equipment including PFD have secondary power from the IBBS following their suggested wiring.
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Last edited by nilberg : 10-22-2019 at 04:30 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2019, 04:44 PM
upperdeck upperdeck is offline
 
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Location: Menomonee Falls, WI
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Default Center the G5

I have my G5 high and in the middle. I figure that if it is truly operating as a backup, I don't want my eyes searching too far from the center of the windscreen during a high stress situation.

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  #14  
Old 10-22-2019, 06:52 PM
nilberg nilberg is offline
 
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Latest version of the panel.

Putting the G5 in the center has grown on me. It makes the panel less cramped and have freed up some room to put an obscure "Alternate Static switch" o the left.

I am getting close, but I need to check the actual visible area on the panel top part as the tip-up canopy will cover up some of it.

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  #15  
Old 10-22-2019, 08:18 PM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilberg View Post
I still need to ground the P—lead when testing, that is what I meant with test.

Critical G3x equipment including PFD have secondary power from the IBBS following their suggested wiring.
You do not ground the p-lead to test, you keep the pMag control on and turn off ship power to the pMag to make sure the internal generator is working (engine running). To do a “mag check” you take each pMag to off, one at a time.

If you got the big IBBS (6ah) you will have a less than an hour of full panel IFR time as your electrical reserve. Does this meet your design criteria?

Carl
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2019, 08:44 PM
rapid_ascent rapid_ascent is online now
 
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The PMAG test is different than standard mags. There are actually 2 tests for the PMAG. What most people consider the PMAG test is where you open the +12V supply to the PMAG to verify that the internal generator is operational. The other test is where you ground the P-lead like a normal mag and turn off that PMAG.

I have normally closed switches for the +12V supply with a momentary test position. In my configuration I have a standard ignition switch which controls the P-Lead like a standard mag. There are many ways that people have wired these up though.

I think I have that correct anyway.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2019, 09:29 PM
RV10Pilot RV10Pilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
If you got the big IBBS (6ah) you will have a less than an hour of full panel IFR time as your electrical reserve. Does this meet your design criteria?

Carl
From the switches it looks like there is a back up alternator so the IBBS provides some battery back up and the back up alternator provides reduced electrical power to run critical equipment. I do agree that an analysis of failures should be completed to insure that back up plans meet the design goals, but thats whole other discussion with lots of other opinions.
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  #18  
Old 10-22-2019, 10:32 PM
nilberg nilberg is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich View Post
You do not ground the p-lead to test, you keep the pMag control on and turn off ship power to the pMag to make sure the internal generator is working (engine running). To do a “mag check” you take each pMag to off, one at a time.

If you got the big IBBS (6ah) you will have a less than an hour of full panel IFR time as your electrical reserve. Does this meet your design criteria?

Carl
Of course, I totally misunderstood the P-Mag wiring. After re-reading the various threads, I think I finally get it:

Wether using a 2- or 3-pos switch:

1. OFF: P-lead grounded (no sparks, aka kill switch)
2. ON: External power ON

then

3. CB pulled or 3rd switch position: External power OFF

I saw a lot of discussion about using CB as switch or not. I guess, it comes down to a personal choice and as the LT-005 from Steinair is available, I going for the 3-pos switch option.

For the power reserve, yes 1 hour will do. I also plan not to have the IBBS powered through the VPX, so there is also the main battery feeding the IBBS, and the optionally, the GTN directly.
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  #19  
Old 10-22-2019, 10:51 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilberg View Post
Latest version of the panel.

Putting the G5 in the center has grown on me. It makes the panel less cramped and have freed up some room to put an obscure "Alternate Static switch" o the left.

I am getting close, but I need to check the actual visible area on the panel top part as the tip-up canopy will cover up some of it.

Bjorn,
Excellent decision in moving the G5 and the warning lights. Two minor suggestions which I used in both planes and happy about doing so. I recommend group your switches somewhat by the usage and then by function. In your case, Fuel pump, cowl flap and wigwag/landing lights perhaps as one group which is used during each take off/landing. Of course not everyone use wigwag/LL during take off and landing but for me those are as one group and it is easy for me to look and turn all on at each TO/Landing.
Second suggestion, you might want to bring the ELT switch closer to the middle section. As part of my emergency procedure, if all fails, I will flip the ELT to ON manually. Lastly, if you can spare some space on the panel for the future use, that would be wise. One never know when a new gadget comes along that we want to install and searching for real estate on the panel.

It really looks lovely.
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  #20  
Old 10-23-2019, 07:18 AM
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Carl Froehlich Carl Froehlich is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilberg View Post
Of course, I totally misunderstood the P-Mag wiring. After re-reading the various threads, I think I finally get it:

Wether using a 2- or 3-pos switch:

1. OFF: P-lead grounded (no sparks, aka kill switch)
2. ON: External power ON

then

3. CB pulled or 3rd switch position: External power OFF

I saw a lot of discussion about using CB as switch or not. I guess, it comes down to a personal choice and as the LT-005 from Steinair is available, I going for the 3-pos switch option.

For the power reserve, yes 1 hour will do. I also plan not to have the IBBS powered through the VPX, so there is also the main battery feeding the IBBS, and the optionally, the GTN directly.
Not quite right:
- Off, pMag control grounded (like a mag) so it is off, power is applied from ship power. I do not recommend applying power using the second side of a DPDT switch (as in Off, no power, On power). Power goes away when you open the master(s). This is discussed in the install instructions.
- On, pMag control is not grounded so it is on, power is applied from ship power.
- Test (either pull breaker or switch) pMag control is not grounded so it is on, you momentarily disconnect the pMag from ship power to verify the internal generation is functioning (engine running).

Carl
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