VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #11  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:07 PM
alcladrv alcladrv is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southeast
Posts: 532
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fhuber View Post
We need to keep in mind that all the people, who work our airplanes from and to the runways, are all volunteers.
The people may be true volunteers, but I came to learn that there is a quid pro quo if you put in 40 hours of time. In other words, they are getting something for their efforts. For their 40 hours of volunteering, they are getting a weekly wristband ($125 value) and camping (up to a week of camping at $39/day). That could be $300 to $400 plus food and drink as I saw Homebuilt HQ folks eating their provided lunch. So, are they really volunteering or just bartering their labor for something of value. I suspect EAA wants to keep the volunteering lingo so they can avoid paying any employment taxes.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-03-2019, 09:36 PM
roadrunner20's Avatar
roadrunner20 roadrunner20 is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bay Pines, FL (based @ KCLW)
Posts: 1,920
Default

I was the last airplane( on the NOTAM) to arrive on Friday before the event start. I reached Fiske at about 7:45 and was cleared to 18R. Two planes behind me had just arrived at RIPON and the controllers asked how quickly they could get in. Six minutes was their response. They were cleared to 27. The controllers were being flexible & understanding. BTW, there was a frontal storm approaching.

It's not only the runway/airport closing at 8:00, all airplanes must be parked & shut down. I suspect this hard 8:00 rule considers all the many volunteers throughout the grounds that need to shut it down & get everyone parked.
BTW, I shut my engine down exactly at 7:59.

What I'm saying is that if they extend the airport closing time due to air show delay, it impacts everyone on the ground as well.
__________________
Danny "RoadRunner" Landry
Morphed RV7(formally 7A), N20DL, PnP Pilot
1140+ hours
2019 Donation Paid

Last edited by roadrunner20 : 08-04-2019 at 07:14 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:10 PM
N546RV's Avatar
N546RV N546RV is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 786
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefPilot View Post
I'd also say that if someone is circling Rush Lake and feels like they are risking their life doing so, they are doing so by their own choice and should probably divert immediately.
By the same right, anyone who remains in the Rush Lake hold until their fuel state makes diverting somewhere else problematic should probably rethink their planning.

During the three attempts I made to get in last year, during the worst of the insanity, in each case I established what my "bingo" fuel state was going to be before I ever started the engine at Watertown, though I never got close to that number on any attempt because, for the first two failed attempts, I pretty quickly ran out of faith that things were going to get better if I just waited around for long enough.

With all that said, I do agree that allowing the air show to run significantly late, when the evening arrival window is already kind of small, isn't great. I do not, however, think that a flexible closing time is the solution, for the reasons already stated by others here.

Still, regardless of what may or may not change in the future, I would strongly recommend that everyone planning on flying into OSH have a Plan B in place, regardless of how quiet you might expect things to be.
__________________
Philip
-8 fuselage in progress (remember when I thought the wing kit had a lot of parts? HAHAHAHAHA)
http://rv.squawk1200.net
https://www.meetup.com/Houston-Area-RV-Enthusiasts/
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-03-2019, 10:33 PM
Jim T Jim T is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Independence, OR
Posts: 221
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcladrv View Post
The people may be true volunteers, but I came to learn that there is a quid pro quo if you put in 40 hours of time. In other words, they are getting something for their efforts. For their 40 hours of volunteering, they are getting a weekly wristband ($125 value) and camping (up to a week of camping at $39/day). That could be $300 to $400 plus food and drink as I saw Homebuilt HQ folks eating their provided lunch. So, are they really volunteering or just bartering their labor for something of value. I suspect EAA wants to keep the volunteering lingo so they can avoid paying any employment taxes.
So does that mean you're going to take a week of your yearly vacation and volunteer for one of these high paying jobs? I hope that there aren't many OSH volunteers reading your post or there will be fewer of them next year! Just say-in.
__________________
RV-12 kit no.: 120647
Working on finish kit
http://www.mykitlog.com/JimT

2006 Rans S-6S Coyote (flying)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-04-2019, 05:39 AM
plehrke's Avatar
plehrke plehrke is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Defiance, MO
Posts: 1,511
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by alcladrv View Post
So, are they really volunteering or just bartering their labor for something of value. I suspect EAA wants to keep the volunteering lingo so they can avoid paying any employment taxes.
Paying for room and board and expenses is not considered compensation, just ask IRS as they tax everything as income but not my room and board and expenses when on business travel for my work.

And I am pretty sure after 8 hours of volunteering most of them are too tired to actually do much walking around and enjoying the show. I think the volunteers make the show possible/great and any perk they get is well deserved and nowhere near enough.

Disclaimer, I have never been a volunteer nor know anyone directly that is one but observe them working hard every place I look around OSH.
__________________
Philip
RV-6A - 13 years over 900 hours
Based at 1H0 (Creve Coeur)
Paid dues yearly since 2007
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 08-04-2019, 07:56 AM
BCP Boys's Avatar
BCP Boys BCP Boys is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kennesaw, Ga
Posts: 715
Default

Let's not get into whether or not the volunteers receive anything in exchange for their time. After all we all know that this doesn't happen without them. I for one am grateful for all that they do and planning on volunteering myself in the future years, and trust me, it's not for the compensation so let's not go that down rat hole.
Back to EAA doing the right thing. I agree 100% that they should plan and stick to the plan as best as possible. If they want to close the airport at 8pm then put it on the NOTAM, set expectations and keep the schedule as posted.
I agree with the original post that lives are at stake here when they don't do what they outline on the NOTAM.

This is a purely a management/enforcement issue to allow the schedule for an airshow to go over and have rippling effect, nothing else. If EAA couldn't start the airshow on time due to weather or anything else, they need to stick to that schedule and stop exactly on time to ensure pilots who are circling in the air, waiting to land, are safe. Just comes down to poor management and someone needs to own it.
I'm sure I'll get hand slapped for being direct but it needs to be said.
__________________
Amir
----------
RV-7 - My Ferrari in the sky
RV-10 - Partnered with a good friend

Supporting VAF since the first visit
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:05 AM
Paul 5r4 Paul 5r4 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Foley, Al
Posts: 467
Default

I was the absolute last aircraft to land at SunNfun a couple years ago. He was telling others behind be that there is an agreement between the people that put on the event and the city controllers that there will be NO aircraft operations after "X" time and it's not flexible. I suspect there might be something like this as well at OSH.

With that said I do feel the airshow times should be shortened a little. ATC needs to stick to the timelines... as others have said for the purposes of planning by the thousands planning to fly in.
__________________
Paul Gray
Foley, Alabama
N729PG..... 450+ hrs
RV 7A, Lycoming 0 320 D1A, Sensenich FP propeller
pilotforfun2001@yahoo.com
VAF supporter $$$
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:20 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is online now
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,493
Default Quit whining

Improving OSH every year is a huge focus at Headquarters, I assure you. There are so many moving parts it is absolutely amazing. In spite of all of the weather problems this year, and mechanical problems (C5, etc.), there was an amazing job done by everyone. The attendance numbers speak for themselves.

Did everyone get to arrive on their planned time? Absolutely not. Could things be improved? you bet? Are we working on it? YES! Please keep in mind that the EAA doesn't own the airspace or the NOTAM. We are working very closely with the FAA to make improvements, and many improvements are going to be "feathered in" over the next few years. You just can't make too many changes at once. There's a bazillion moving parts, and lives at stake.


I was pleased that the air rage so evident last year was missing this year, so thanks to all of the pilots.

I would be very careful with regards to bashing the volunteers. Your facts are wrong on the compensation. Most of these people do it because they love aviation as much as pilots do. Not everyone flies, thankfully. WE need them. There are 5000+ volunteers. AirVenture would NEVER work without all of the volunteers, some of whom have been there for 50 years. The knowledge pool is absolutely amazing. You owe your ability to bring your airplane to Airventure to ALL of the volunteers. Period. So knock it off.

I was there Friday and Saturday when all of the volunteers basically went into emergency management mode after the 6-8" of rain. I think FEMA could have learned a few things from them. Some of them had skillsets we were lucky to have available, and they were some of the most humble people around. Working in the mud and slop and heat for some very long days. So basically, nobody wants to hear that you couldn't get in on your exact timed plan in your airplane. Ask some of those in the 4 mile long camper line who couldn't get into Scholler due to the mud, and ended up camping in Walmart parking lots. They made the best of it, setting up barbecues in the road and making new friends.

BTW, I spoke to quite a few pilots who landed at outlying airports, and they were very happy. Many just decided to stay there for the week and ride busses in every day. They made new friends as well, and were having fun.

Which is what Airventure is supposed to be about. Having fun. Try it.

Vic
__________________
Vic Syracuse

Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Checkpoints" monthly column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
www.Baselegaviation.com

Last edited by vic syracuse : 08-04-2019 at 08:21 AM. Reason: grammar
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:26 AM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 1,824
Default Yes

Well stated, Vic...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues Paid 2018,...Thanks DR+
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:46 PM
dtw_rv6 dtw_rv6 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Martinsville, IN
Posts: 452
Default

Over 600,000 attendees this year. One heck of a job for an organization with only 100 paid employees.
__________________
Better is the enemy of good enough!

Don
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:00 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.