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  #1  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:38 AM
dwranda dwranda is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Jamestown,NY
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Default Canopy making me regret picking the 9!!

For the first time in my build I am regretting building the 9 instead of the 14. I had to get away from the plane before I ripped the canopy frame off and ran over it with the car. I thought I had it fitting pretty well then I cracked the tube on the frame. I had that welded then it still didn't fit right any more. I was carefully bending it to try to get it to fit and the other side started cracking. Motherf#$@^&!!
I read on Bruce Swayzes excellent build site that he riveted the sub panel structure to the plane so there would be no possible movement of anything that could screw up the canopy. So I just did that. I had a great riveting day when all the rivets came out perfect even the hard to reach ones. That doesn't happen too often. Didn't have to drill any out. I was HAPPY.
With much trepidation I just tried to fit the canopy frame. It fits worse than it ever has. I don't know at what point it stopped fitting well or what caused it. I was hoping it was the crack, but that was repaired and that still didn't help. It's as if the holes I drilled for the pivot points are wrong now.
The only thing I can think to do is see if the welder can fill the pivot holes and push the canopy into a relatively decent fitting place and redrill the holes. Does that sound feasible? In the pics attached you can see the gap on the right side and the huge amount the frame sits above the front skin on the left side. It was never that high at the front like that. Anybody have any ideas???
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  #2  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:57 AM
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bruceh bruceh is offline
 
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Like I tell everyone about the build process, once the canopy is done it is all downhill. This is the worst part of the build. You can get it close but nowhere near perfect. The curve of the canopy frame is nothing like the curve of the top fuselage skin. I messed around with this to no end. I still have a gap, but it isn't too ugly.

Suggestions? Pop out the hinge pins, strap it down where you think it should be and try to see where the new pivot holes would be. Then decide if filling with weld and redrilling will be worth it or not. If the new hole is too far off on the gooseneck of the canopy frame edge distance-wise, then leave it. You can also consider moving the other location factor which are the plastic blocks. It is probably better to drill an accurately placed hinge hole on the frame first, and then figure out where to drill the plastic blocks to match. You can buy the UHMW plastic from McMaster-Carr and make new ones easily that will put the holes where you need them.
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2018, 01:21 PM
nilberg nilberg is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Katy, TX
Posts: 217
Default What Bruce said...

After ending up with zero edge distance, I did exactly what Bruce described.
I drilled the canopy hinge holes first and used those to match drill the Delrin blocs and ribs. If you search in the forum, I believe you will find that was the process used for RV-6.

I sacrificed the ribs and used them to hold things together.
Have a look at my log entry around 3-8-2017 for illustration.

http://www.mykitlog.com/users/displa...=253197&row=67
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Last edited by nilberg : 09-06-2018 at 01:28 PM. Reason: Added log link.
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2018, 01:30 PM
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RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
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Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nilberg View Post
After ending up with zero edge distance, I did exactly what Bruce described.
I drilled the canopy hinge holes first and used those to match drill the Delrin blocs and ribs. If you search in the forum, I believe you will find that was the process used for RV-6.
I don't know about a 9 (I built a 7), but are you talking "zero edge distance" between the forward edge of the canopy and the aft edge of the forward fuselage skin? If so, then be careful...at least on the 7 tip-up, this can and will result in the tip-up skin catching on the fuse skin and bending...not a good thing. This is one thing I did NOT experience as I was very careful to leave just enough gap to avoid it, but I know others who have had it catch and bend...it makes an ugly bend.

You might be talking something else, and it may be different on the 9, just wanted to toss out a word of caution. I believe the instructions mention this issue, as well.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2018, 05:09 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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It is a little hard to see all of the needed cues to determine what is happening. If the center of the canopy skin to front skin gap is correct (.020-.040) and it widens as it comes down to the fuse rail, then the frame needs to close more. Is the inside frame-to-fuserail gap 1/8" at the back? If has to be. If it is greater then the splices to the canopy rails are off. Just for clarity, there is stagger, and gap. The stagger is a planar offset between the two skins, a gap is where stagger is zero, but they dont come together in the same plane.

Take a few more pictures and post so we can see that. Bruce has an excellent website with documentation and I have lots of posts on the canopy. Mine fits little stagger and small gap all way around, but it was a huge effort to get there with many non productive side roads. This canopy fitting is a challenge of any builders patience. But don't despair, it can be done in a definitive way without mystery.
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:29 PM
dwranda dwranda is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
It is a little hard to see all of the needed cues to determine what is happening. If the center of the canopy skin to front skin gap is correct (.020-.040) and it widens as it comes down to the fuse rail, then the frame needs to close more. Is the inside frame-to-fuserail gap 1/8" at the back? If has to be. If it is greater then the splices to the canopy rails are off. Just for clarity, there is stagger, and gap. The stagger is a planar offset between the two skins, a gap is where stagger is zero, but they dont come together in the same plane.

Take a few more pictures and post so we can see that. Bruce has an excellent website with documentation and I have lots of posts on the canopy. Mine fits little stagger and small gap all way around, but it was a huge effort to get there with many non productive side roads. This canopy fitting is a challenge of any builders patience. But don't despair, it can be done in a definitive way without mystery.
I am on Bruces site ALL the time. I pretty much have a browser tab on his site permanently up on my computer. The strange thing about this is that I had everything fitting pretty well and I was happy with the gaps and stagger all around. Then one day things stopped fitting and my progress ground to a halt. I do have the frame to fuse 1/8 inch gap at the back.
I just re-drilled the left hinge plastic and ribs so that huge gap is gone on that side. I'm going to make some doublers to rivet to the ribs since the holes are enlarged now. Does that sound reasonable? I was able to reuse the plastic blocks by just flipping them over. The skins are now touching so I have to file them down enough so there is no binding.
I knew my canopy wouldn't be show quality but I want it acceptable to my standards. After looking at all the canopies at Oshkosh I was feeling good about mine. I saw a lot of uneven gaps. Hopefully I can get back to that feeling.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2018, 11:55 PM
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Janekom Janekom is offline
 
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The 7 and the 9 has exactly the same fuselage. So the challenge is the same
It is the most difficult part of the project.. A lot of builders eventually build up the foward top skin to conform to the profile of the canopy frame.
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  #8  
Old 09-07-2018, 12:03 AM
nilberg nilberg is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post
I don't know about a 9 (I built a 7), but are you talking "zero edge distance" between the forward edge of the canopy and the aft edge of the forward fuselage skin? If so, then be careful...at least on the 7 tip-up, this can and will result in the tip-up skin catching on the fuse skin and bending...not a good thing. This is one thing I did NOT experience as I was very careful to leave just enough gap to avoid it, but I know others who have had it catch and bend...it makes an ugly bend.

You might be talking something else, and it may be different on the 9, just wanted to toss out a word of caution. I believe the instructions mention this issue, as well.
With zero edge distance, I meant it in a bad way. I completely messed up the location of the hole, see log entry: http://www.mykitlog.com/users/displa...=253192&row=71

Luckily, I only had #40 pilot hole drilled, but I could see where it was heading.
Van's said weld it shut and drill again.

Good point about the gap between the canopy and skin. Getting it to snag the skin will crush both the canopy skin and your soul........
I used flashing material stuck under the canopy skin until I was certain it didn't get snagged. The canopy contraption moves around like crazy until the forward skin is riveted and the structure firms up, it can snag the forward skin at any time. The struts pulls it 1/8 forward unless you use stops (like Bruce snd others have done).

Like the previous poster said RV-7 and RV-9 are identical in this area.
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Last edited by nilberg : 09-07-2018 at 12:20 AM. Reason: Added text
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2018, 09:29 AM
Paul 5r4 Paul 5r4 is offline
 
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I built a 7A tip up. Like someone said this is the most frustrating and difficult part of the build. I never could get the distance right between the forward canopy skin and the fuselage forward top skin. No matter what I did it was catching and binding. Once I had enough distance so that wasn't a problem, the gap was unacceptable..... it looked horrible!
I ended up removing and replacing the fuselage top skin. Now that top skin extends well aft of the joint. When the canopy is closed, the canopies forward skin is on top of the fuselage skin. The fuselage skin extends far enough aft so the closing of the canopy can't catch on it anyplace. Not per the planes but it worked.
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2018, 10:07 AM
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bhassel bhassel is offline
 
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There are many build features which lead me to wanting to build the 14, The canopy of course is a major one. The one build feature that keeps me wanting to build the nine over the 14 is dollars.

What to do?

Bob
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