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VP-X not supported on Dynon Skyview HDX

I was told at OSH this year all their Skyview screens were interchangeable - I could run a Classic in the same panel as the HDX. Now I can't.

I don't understand your gripe. From what I see, your only problem is you can't have the HDX right now but you have a fully functional system with your Skyview Classic and VP-X functioning beautifully, right?
Dynon said they will have compatibility in a future upgrade.
The VPX is indispensable for me and others which makes the G3X a good upgrade option
By all means, I like my Garmin as much as my Dynons but at nearly twice the price and other issues mentioned by Jesse you might be better off exercising a bit of patience and let Dynon do their thing.
The combination has worked well and I routinely review the status of all of the circuits on the Dynon display during run-up and in flight.

Our panels look very similar at least the 2 Dynon screens and all the switches and breakers. Mine has no VP-X and yours does.
https://goo.gl/photos/RV78ETi6JqE4mgAg6
 
It's actually cost them resources to remove the VPX capability.

Patrick,
I can promise you the only reason VP-X is not in the HDX is the work it would take to put in HDX. HDX uses a completely different user interface that we need to re-write for VP-X. We sure didn't do work just to leave it out.
 
Rob, this is exactly how the VPX works in every case. You are supposed to wire up panel switches for things you turn on and off. The display on an EFIS is mainly of currents and faults for each channel, and an emergency backup to a broken switch.
I thought the point was to get all the switches turned into "soft" switches on the Dynon... Now i'm not seeing the value of having everything integrated. Having current readings on a per-circuit basis is kind of neat, and maybe handy for the initial testing phase, but after that it's probably information overload for most people.

If you don't have a Dynon, how would the VPX indicate faults? Does it have an a single alarm light, or do you wire status lights alongside each switch? Maybe the solution is as simple as putting a temporary warning light in while Dynon implements an interface.
 
The VP-X needs an EFIS to display faults and statuses. It replaces circuit breakers. Each switched circuit should have a signal from a physical switch (grounding a low current line). My understanding is that you can reset circuits and operate virtual switches for each circuit through the EFIS. There are a few other settings that can be touched, but all configuration is done through the Ethernet cable based configuration PC software. It doesn't seem to an overly complicated interface on the EFIS.
 
You don't need a bunch of circuit breakers to clutter up your panel.
Many of us are using a combination of circuit breakers or switched circuit breakers that serve blade fuse sub panels.

FWIW, I have *no* CBs on my panel...I have all fuses, using 3 busses (main, essential and always-hot), all behind the instrument panel. There are no circuits which, if tripped, I want or need to reset in flight (given redundant functionalities, back-up batteries, essential bus capability, etc...yes, I did a full fault tree analysis, as well).
 
VP-X is a paradigm shift -

FWIW, I have *no* CBs on my panel...I have all fuses, using 3 busses (main, essential and always-hot), all behind the instrument panel. There are no circuits which, if tripped, I want or need to reset in flight (given redundant functionalities, back-up batteries, essential bus capability, etc...yes, I did a full fault tree analysis, as well).

What's a paradigm shift? It changes the game, it's not simply a substitution of the CB or Fuse panel. The best analogy to describe Vertical Power ECB is to think back to the typewriter, and the personal computer era. The PC was not a simple replacement of a typewriter, press a key and it appears on paper. Make a mistake and put some 'white-out' on the paper to correct it. The PC added new dimensions to the whole game. We have backspace, cut & paste, drop & drag, spell-checker, and numerous writing and editing features. Electronic storage of the documents, email transmissions, collaboration of editing, and WYSIWYG (WhizzyWig) ... fonts, and a plethora of typesetting features.

To call VP-X a substitution for a fuse block, or CB panel is to ignore the enabling technology that ECB adds. The EFIS displays the VP-X status, and informs the pilot of faults and operating conditions which a fuse panel cannot replicate. The earlier models (VP-50, -100, and -200) included a dedicated CU (Control Unit) and a bank of assignable switches. No integration with the EFIS was required. The VP-X models require the builder to construct the switches and assign them to circuit 'pins' to activate the ECB function. There is an option to enhance the switches by using illuminated switches and the ON/OFF status is then visible on the switch panel. With EFIS/VP-X integration the flap position can be displayed on a widget in the ENGINE page of the SkyView. [Think of that as WYSIWYG, added status information beyond ON/OFF.]

I'll be one of the first to say that understanding the ECB world was initially NOT intuitive and I also troubled over the oversimplification that much of the literature presents. A superficial look at ECB will miss the concept that explains paradigm shift.

Yes, it's experimental - all of the glass panels, and integration is experimental and it's about flying. Yes, some can and do 'buy the package' and turn it on but there is a huge experiment progressing in E-AB aviation. Many vendors are taking significant business risks and striving to converge on the future. Aviation is not just airfoils and stick & rudder.
 
May I suggest that you obtain a current apples to apples quote. You may find that this statement is a bit outdated.

I priced out Garmin and Dynon when I did my panel (about two years ago now). The price difference was almost nill (I think the all in Garmin setup was about $200 - $300 more).

There are lots of reasons to pick one over the other, but price is no longer a valid one.

-Dan
 
What's a paradigm shift? It changes the game, it's not simply a substitution of the CB or Fuse panel. The best analogy to describe Vertical Power ECB is to think back to the typewriter, and the personal computer era. The PC was not a simple replacement of a typewriter, press a key and it appears on paper. Make a mistake and put some 'white-out' on the paper to correct it. The PC added new dimensions to the whole game. We have backspace, cut & paste, drop & drag, spell-checker, and numerous writing and editing features. Electronic storage of the documents, email transmissions, collaboration of editing, and WYSIWYG (WhizzyWig) ... fonts, and a plethora of typesetting features.

To call VP-X a substitution for a fuse block, or CB panel is to ignore the enabling technology that ECB adds. The EFIS displays the VP-X status, and informs the pilot of faults and operating conditions which a fuse panel cannot replicate. The earlier models (VP-50, -100, and -200) included a dedicated CU (Control Unit) and a bank of assignable switches. No integration with the EFIS was required. The VP-X models require the builder to construct the switches and assign them to circuit 'pins' to activate the ECB function. There is an option to enhance the switches by using illuminated switches and the ON/OFF status is then visible on the switch panel. With EFIS/VP-X integration the flap position can be displayed on a widget in the ENGINE page of the SkyView. [Think of that as WYSIWYG, added status information beyond ON/OFF.]

I'll be one of the first to say that understanding the ECB world was initially NOT intuitive and I also troubled over the oversimplification that much of the literature presents. A superficial look at ECB will miss the concept that explains paradigm shift.

Yes, it's experimental - all of the glass panels, and integration is experimental and it's about flying. Yes, some can and do 'buy the package' and turn it on but there is a huge experiment progressing in E-AB aviation. Many vendors are taking significant business risks and striving to converge on the future. Aviation is not just airfoils and stick & rudder.

Thanks for the lesson. I wouldn't have known what a "paradigm shift" was. </snark off>

I'm not saying anyone should or shouldn't use a system like VP...that's entirely up to them. All I was responding to was the idea that one has to have circuit breakers on the panel.

I'm certainly not a Luddite, and have an all-glass panel myself...but it's pretty easy to start making systems more and more complex and start to bump up against the possibility of what are called "normal failures".

FWIW, I wonder how such a system analyzes out when looking at SPFs...does it merely move around the SPFs, or does it create additional ones? Or does it eliminate some?

ETA: BTW, illuminated switches? Got 'em...on when the circuit is on, off when not. Flap position on the EFIS? Got it (well, will whenever I get around to hooking up the sensor...point is, I don't need VP-X do get this). How are switches and pins different than switches and fuses? Don't they both requires a switch?
 
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May I suggest that you obtain a current apples to apples quote. You may find that this statement is a bit outdated.

My reference to "almost twice the price" was directed at the idea of an "upgrade"
switching from a Dynon system to a Garmin system.
In his case, he would only have to pay for the new HDX if he can wait for the
VP-X support from Dynon.
If he upgrades to a Garmin he will need new screens and Garmin servos for the autopilot to work along with mostly new wiring.
Compare that upgrade to a simple drop in replacement for a HDX from Dynon.

I am aware that Garmin is now very competitive in the experimental market.
 
Waiting

Claude,
Right now we expect to put the VP-X on the HDX, but we don't have a timeframe we'd promise. We have a lot of things we want to keep adding to our systems so we're prioritizing VP-X along with everything else. Knowing customer demand sure helps.

Put me down as a customer that intends on buying a dual HDX system, as soon as it supports the VP-X. I am just reaching the point on my build to get them in the next few months.

I don't wan't to go to the pre-HDX systems, as one of the responses from Dynon to a user asking about the split EMS screen on a pre-HDX system indicated that they would be entering a "no new development" phase soon, if not already the case.
 
My reference to "almost twice the price" was directed at the idea of an "upgrade"
switching from a Dynon system to a Garmin system.
In his case, he would only have to pay for the new HDX if he can wait for the
VP-X support from Dynon.
If he upgrades to a Garmin he will need new screens and Garmin servos for the autopilot to work along with mostly new wiring.
Compare that upgrade to a simple drop in replacement for a HDX from Dynon.

I am aware that Garmin is now very competitive in the experimental market.

Fair enough!
 
Put me down as a customer that intends on buying a dual HDX system, as soon as it supports the VP-X. I am just reaching the point on my build to get them in the next few months.

I don't wan't to go to the pre-HDX systems, as one of the responses from Dynon to a user asking about the split EMS screen on a pre-HDX system indicated that they would be entering a "no new development" phase soon, if not already the case.

Chuck,
Can you point to the response from Dynon that says "no new development". I find it hard to believe the legacy Skyveiw systems will have no further development.

Gary
 
And also on the Dynon forums, a response to the same question I started this thread with.

Yes, it is coming to the HDX, and yes, it's expected in the coming months.

That's a little bit more of a commitment than was given here.
 
Dynon never said any such thing on that thread or any other.

To quote:

"v15 adds a bunch of awesome features to all SkyView displays. Highway in the Sky, runway centerlines on the map, navigation to runways, aircraft maintenance tracking, and more. Non-HDX SkyView has not been discontinued, and as you can see we've continued to add features."
 
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To quote:

"Mark & Quote Quote v15 adds a bunch of awesome features to all SkyView displays. Highway in the Sky, runway centerlines on the map, navigation to runways, aircraft maintenance tracking, and more. Non-HDX SkyView has not been discontinued, and as you can see we've continued to add features."

That's what I meant...that they never said they were entering a "no new development phase". I sort of phrased my earlier response incorrectly, it was really in response to the earlier assertion.

You're correct...and my apologies for being obtuse... :)
 
That's what I meant...that they never said they were entering a "no new development phase".

Thanks for clarifying and all good. I do hope that they continue development of the "Legacy" boxes but also realize that it will depend on sales/profit of that hardware. Software support in other realms tops out at 10 years unless you pay for continued support.

I recently cancelled an HDX order and went with a second SV1000T since I already had one and budget did not allow for two new screens, at the moment. I hope to be flying soon and transition training will be in a -7 with nearly the same setup.
 
Thanks for clarifying and all good. I do hope that they continue development of the "Legacy" boxes but also realize that it will depend on sales/profit of that hardware. Software support in other realms tops out at 10 years unless you pay for continued support.

I recently cancelled an HDX order and went with a second SV1000T since I already had one and budget did not allow for two new screens, at the moment. I hope to be flying soon and transition training will be in a -7 with nearly the same setup.

I have an SV1000T and love it. I'm actually not sure, based on what I see in the specs, that I'd go with the newer HDX even if I was starting out now. I like the interface of the SV Touch, but I also find I'm split most of the time about 60/40 in favor of the buttons and knobs, just going by how often I use either interface method (buttons/knobs vs. touch). I'm also not real sold on the little "shelf" that sticks out from the panel, but maybe that's just because I haven't tried it...still, seems a departure from normal avionics to me.

But hey...to those who like it, I say go for it! I'm quite confident that Dynon will continue to upgrade/maintain the non-HDX line for a long time to come.
 
So an update here on HDX VP-X support:

Although we didn't have a firm time-frame for its addition before this week, we've always expected to have VP-X support on HDX.

We often plan feature order based on demand, and this thread - along with other feedback we've gotten - has helped us prioritize this. So thanks to your help, VP-X support on HDX is now on our shortlist and will be among the next round of features we add.

As for exact dates - we don't have ourselves scheduled out yet, but we typically do 4-5 major software releases a year, with smaller updates and fixes as needed. So without making promises, we'd expect VP-X support to land within the next few months.
 
Kicking myself for not just skipping to the end of this thread. Thanks Dynon! Looking forward to being able to use my VPX-Pro with HDX. I've got a few months of work to do before ordering my EFIS's anyway.
 
Glad to read that the fuse/ECB debate continues almost 10 years after the release of the first VP product!

But I digress... First, glad to hear Dynon is committed to HDX support in a the near future.

The VP-X will operate just fine without an EFIS in the interim until the integration is supported. You won't have variable speed trim or flap overspeed protection or landing light wig wag or in-flight reset or current draw per circuit or device status, but you'll be able to turn everything on and off and the trim and flaps will operate in "dumb" mode. If there is a circuit fault, the device will simply be off, like blowing a fuse behind the panel. When you get back on the ground, plug in your PC and reset the fault. You could even fly with a laptop in the right seat if you wanted real time information and control. Not perfect but good enough for a short while, IMO.
 
Classic to HDX upgrade scenario?

So if you have an existing VPX license for a Skyview Classic EFIS display, then decide to upgrade to a Skyview HDX EFIS, will a new license need to be purchased, or can the previous license be carried over to the HDX?
 
So if you have an existing VPX license for a Skyview Classic EFIS display, then decide to upgrade to a Skyview HDX EFIS, will a new license need to be purchased, or can the previous license be carried over to the HDX?

Just give us a call and we will transfer your license over to the new HDX. We will need the serial number of the Classic and the HDX to transfer the license.
 
So if you have an existing VPX license for a Skyview Classic EFIS display, then decide to upgrade to a Skyview HDX EFIS, will a new license need to be purchased, or can the previous license be carried over to the HDX?

Just give us a call and we will transfer your license over to the new HDX. We will need the serial number of the Classic and the HDX to transfer the license.
 
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