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  #1  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:19 AM
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kbalch kbalch is offline
 
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Default Cowl Hinge Shims/Attach Plates necessary?

I'm about to begin working on page 28-07 and am wondering if the cowl hinge shims and attach plates are necessary given that I'll be using Skybolt Camlocs around the full perimeter of the cowling.
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RV-8 N118KB (sold)
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:23 AM
Nova RV Nova RV is offline
 
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The shims are needed to compensate for the thickness of the fiberglass cowling vs the thickness of the skin/piano hinge sandwich. The Skybolt will still need the shims installed - you just consider their thickness to substitute for the piano hinge thickness.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:24 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalch View Post
I'm about to begin working on page 28-07 and am wondering if the cowl hinge shims and attach plates are necessary given that I'll be using Skybolt Camlocs around the full perimeter of the cowling.
Yes. Without those shims, the cowl will not be a flush match with the sheet metal at the firewall.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:32 AM
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kbalch kbalch is offline
 
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Understood on the shims; thanks, guys.

Do I need to install the attach plates now or will Skybolt's interlocking flanges take their place down the road? If so, is it okay to leave the various skins around the firewall clecoed until it's time to install the Camlocs next spring/summer?
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RV-14A #140494 (Fuselage underway)
N114KB (reserved)
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2018, 08:43 AM
Kyle Boatright Kyle Boatright is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalch View Post
Understood on the shims; thanks, guys.

Do I need to install the attach plates now or will Skybolt's interlocking flanges take their place down the road? If so, is it okay to leave the various skins around the firewall clecoed until it's time to install the Camlocs next spring/summer?
The skins around the firewall (and hinges, shims, and camlock strips) become a bigger challenge once the engine mount is installed. Basically, it becomes impossible (nothing is impossible, but...) to drive or squeeze a rivet in close proximity to the 4 or 6 engine mount points that are near the perimeter of the firewall.

I'm not sure what you mean by attach plates...
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Old 12-01-2018, 09:27 AM
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kbalch kbalch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
The skins around the firewall (and hinges, shims, and camlock strips) become a bigger challenge once the engine mount is installed. Basically, it becomes impossible (nothing is impossible, but...) to drive or squeeze a rivet in close proximity to the 4 or 6 engine mount points that are near the perimeter of the firewall.
I'll have to check my old photos from the last project to see how I did it then. I'm thinking a tapered, no-hole yoke, but I could be misremembering.

Quote:
I'm not sure what you mean by attach plates...
Page 28-07, Figure 2. Part F-14133-1 Cowl Attach Plates. I suspect (always dangerous!) that the Skybolt flanges will stand in for these and be spaced inboard by the shims.
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2018, 09:35 AM
Nova RV Nova RV is offline
 
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The Skybolt flanges will sub for the attach plates but you MUST rivet them on before the engine mount gets permanently attached as there is no room to set the rivets afterwards. Remember too that no matter what, you still have about 14 or so screws on the bottom that screw into the support plate that surrounds the nose gear leg so unless you find a way to replace those with more Skybolt fasteners, you wont be completely screwless.
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  #8  
Old 12-01-2018, 09:44 AM
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kbalch kbalch is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova RV View Post
The Skybolt flanges will sub for the attach plates but you MUST rivet them on before the engine mount gets permanently attached as there is no room to set the rivets afterwards. Remember too that no matter what, you still have about 14 or so screws on the bottom that screw into the support plate that surrounds the nose gear leg so unless you find a way to replace those with more Skybolt fasteners, you wont be completely screwless.
Good info; thanks. I wasn't aware of those bottom screws. I'll have to look at it closely when the time comes to see whether I might substitute some additional Camlocs. Even if it's not possible, at least the bottom cowl doesn't have to come off very often. Heck, even the upper cowl gets two screws on each side behind the spinner, right?
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  #9  
Old 12-01-2018, 11:10 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalch View Post
Even if it's not possible, at least the bottom cowl doesn't have to come off very often. Heck, even the upper cowl gets two screws on each side behind the spinner, right?
Hopefully you are not going to all of the extra expense and labor just to have a more easily removable top cowl......
I would wager that I can remove a built per plans RV-14 top cowl , just as fast as someone can remove one installed with camlocks.
And if camlocks aren't used on the gear leg close out plate, the removal of the bottom cowl probably wouldn't be much different either.
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  #10  
Old 12-01-2018, 12:05 PM
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RV-14E RV-14E is offline
 
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Greetings.

Opinions on quarter turns vs. hinges aside, you've made the right decision for you. Congratulations! Others can build according to what works for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalch View Post
I'm about to begin working on page 28-07 and am wondering if the cowl hinge shims and attach plates are necessary given that I'll be using Skybolt Camlocs around the full perimeter of the cowling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova RV View Post
The shims are needed to compensate for the thickness of the fiberglass cowling vs the thickness of the skin/piano hinge sandwich. The Skybolt will still need the shims installed - you just consider their thickness to substitute for the piano hinge thickness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle Boatright View Post
Yes. Without those shims, the cowl will not be a flush match with the sheet metal at the firewall.
When I installed my Skybolts, I found that the F-14134A Cowling Hinge Shim caused the upper cowl to sit too low. I removed the shim from my install and the cowl sat flush relative to the F-01471 Forward Top Skin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalch View Post
Understood on the shims; thanks, guys.
Do I need to install the attach plates now or will Skybolt's interlocking flanges take their place down the road? If so, is it okay to leave the various skins around the firewall clecoed until it's time to install the Camlocs next spring/summer?
If you don't plan to use the quarter turn fasteners for the bottom cowl, install the F-14133-1 Cowl Attach Plates per plans. If you plan to use the quarter turns there, you may have additional issues to consider to make it all work: The area around the Cowl Attach Plates is apparently subject to fatigue as Van's deprecated the use of the original, thinner F-14133 part in place of the newer, thicker F-14133-1 part. This was an update that was released on 10-Nov-15.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nova RV View Post
The Skybolt flanges will sub for the attach plates but you MUST rivet them on before the engine mount gets permanently attached as there is no room to set the rivets afterwards. Remember too that no matter what, you still have about 14 or so screws on the bottom that screw into the support plate that surrounds the nose gear leg so unless you find a way to replace those with more Skybolt fasteners, you wont be completely screwless.
I didn't have issues riveting the SkyBolt flanges on with the engine mount in place. However, I also have a ground-down, no-hole yoke that gets me in to really tight spaces.



Quote:
Originally Posted by kbalch View Post
Good info; thanks. I wasn't aware of those bottom screws. I'll have to look at it closely when the time comes to see whether I might substitute some additional Camlocs. Even if it's not possible, at least the bottom cowl doesn't have to come off very often. Heck, even the upper cowl gets two screws on each side behind the spinner, right?
If you keep the Cowl Hinge Pins, there would be a total of six as the two side hinge pins are each held down with a screw.

Good luck with the install! Let us know how it goes.
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