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3-Pointing the 8...

David-aviator

Well Known Member
....it can be done. :)

In perfectly calm early morning conditions and out of deference to a good pilot (Mike Seager) who admonished me to learn to 3 point the RV, I went out and did it this morning. First one was right on, the second skipped and bounced a bit but not bad enough to go around. Both on a hard surface.

The challenge is flaring to level off at the right altitude, like about 4" off the concrete. My flare is too high most of the time and that needs work. I've been working on a technique glancing out the side to judge flare height. The attitude over the nose has been fixed in my brain but I am usually too high for a decent 3 pointer. The wheel landing is much easier, just ease off on the back pressure until it touches, a little forward stick, and you're there.
 
Don't give up on the three pointers. Its just an experience thing. The more you do, the better you get. The better you get, the more your muscle memory will start to kick in so it becomes automatic. By the time you have about 30 of them under your belt, you won't even remember that they were giving you problems. The key is to keep at it.

Learning nothing but wheel landings can present some disadvantages down the road. Honestly, they are best saved for those days when the wind demands it. We have a pretty small margin for error between the ground and the prop on our RV-8s. You can stand a Cub or a Luscombe dead nuts level on the mains and have more than a foot of ground clearance between the prop and the pavement. Not so with the RV. We are talking INCHES here. You really should master both techniques and use the appropriate one when applicable. A wheel landing on a rough field for instance, with "rumble strips" running across it, well, not a good idea! The same field with a nose high three pointer or very tail low attitude makes it a tame proposition.

Anyway, stick with it. The more you do, the more you realize there is no perfect technique and mistakes are TOOLS to better learning. You can play with pitch, speed, and attitude as you search for what works for you. These 8s really do land easily in a tail low or three point attitude. But for many, with little or not tail dragger time, it may "seem" easier to just plunk it on the mains and never bother. But god forbid if you screw that up. Its a bent prop waiting to happen if you pogo off the mains or feed in too much forward stick. A botched three pointer ends in an embarrassing bounce and nothing more. A botched wheel landing on these short gear legs can end in an engine rebuild.
 
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I'm scared

Now, after a couple thousand hours of 8 time I'm finding out its a real monster and I should be "verwy verwy careful". ;)
 
LOL. A monster is landing a Cub at night in a 25 mph cross wind. Never...Ever...AGAIN. HA.
 
During transition training in the 7, Mike S taught me to sit left and look out the side on short final so I could see and judge the nose high 3 points. The mains still mostly touched first as the landing as the 7 stalls quick with throttle off as I guess all RV's do (not 9?). My most challenging task was to learn to flare low to the runway. (old cessna habits die hard)
 
My first 3 landings ever in an RV-8 were 3-pointers, and were very smooth with no bounce at all. I did have the 8's 200lb owner in the back seat which definitely helped shift the CG aft. Then after getting all checked out in the 8, and soloing it later that day (solo landings were wheel landings) I go home that evening and read on VAF that you're not supposed to be able to 3-point an 8. :D

Funny how they worked just fine with some weight in the back.
 
LOL! I think the most adamant and/or mostly false insistance that the 8 cannot three point/full stall land comes from low time pilots transitioning to the tail draggers. Or high time pilots transitioning to Tail Draggers, for that matter. Its purely an experience thing. With enough stick time, you can land the darn thing on one tire, or the tail first, on purpose, while whistling dixie and thinking about the Victoria Secrets model you'd like to meet. Not saying don't pay attention (before someone goes off), I am just saying the RV-8 is one of the EASIER tail draggers to taxi and land.

That is not to belittle anyone who just cannot seem to make it happen. But I think it does directly reflect the amount of actual TD time they have when they transitioned to the RV-8. Five hours in a Citabria is not that much if you have 200 hours in a C-172 or C-150. It takes a short period to unlearn the muscle memories and visual cues. A guy with a few 100 hours in a classic TD generally doesn't even realize there is supposed to be an "issue" three pointing an 8. He just goes and does it and doesn't think twice about it. For him is all speed management. Which is actually part of the learning issue with new Rv pilots anyway. You are just as likely to come in too hot as to bust through pattern altitude the first few times you solo.

As far as CG goes, I can put 50 pounds in my FRONT compartment, leave the rear empty and still full stall it on. So even there, I don't get it. BUT, I can see how some aft weight can help. ITs why I always argue with guys when they tell me they are putting their battery on the firewall. With EVERYTHING up front you see more issues. Put it in the back. Its so just much nicer in terms of trim, flair, and CG, especially with full tanks. anyhoo.

Anyway, the next time someone tells you you can't three point an RV-8, remember the same mindset and conventional wisdom that said the Luscombe was a hard plane to land. Total BS. Its one of the easiest. But you had to use your feet. Something INSTRUCTORS forgot to do in the 1960s.
 
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LOL. A monster is landing a Cub at night in a 25 mph cross wind. Never...Ever...AGAIN. HA.
Well, you know what they say about Cubs - they'll just barely kill you.

Not sure who said you couldn't 3 pt an -8. It just takes a lot more work to accomplish the same thing as the wheel landing. Good skill to have landing in tight spaces obviously.
 
3 point in a 8

Has anyone hear of someone having a prop strike in a 8 while doing a wheel landing?
 
Not sure who said you couldn't 3 pt an -8. It just takes a lot more work to accomplish the same thing as the wheel landing. Good skill to have landing in tight spaces obviously.

Lot more work?? Nothing is hard with practice - like anything else. OK, it's more work...you have to go to the trouble of pulling the stick back a few more inches...and doing that troublesome pilot stuff like precision energy management. ;)

I maintain that really good 3-point landings in almost ANY tailwheel is more challenging than a really good wheel landing. It's about the energy management and landing attitude for which wheelies require less precision. I think it's why you see more pilots do wheelies (in any airplane) than 3-pointers. Wheelies are easier to avoid those emabarrassing dribbles down the runway in front of the peanut gallery. :)

And Scott "Lawbreaker" - some of the best no-nonsense smarts I've seen on the subject here.
 
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LOL. Yeah, that extra few inches of stick movement is killer! Thats funny right there! :D

My own obersvations in the tail dragger world have been the opposite. Most tail dragger guys (outside of RV world) I know have less issue with a full stall or three pointer and use them 99% of the time. They seem to reserve the wheel landing for higher cross winds, or just for giggles.

I think the wheel landing thing is more an RV community thing. A larger % of pilots come to RVs right from C-150s or Pipers, rather than from 1940s-50s era puddle jumpers. In the world of classic aircraft, it would be totally embarrassing if all you could do is wheel land your (pick one) cub, luscombe, aeronca, citabria etc. Most classic guys prefer the full stall above all else. I was surprised to meet RV guys who seldom or never three point landed their aircraft. The only conclusion I could come to was that when coming from a modern fighter or a tricycle gear Cessna, it just seemed easier to them to put it on the mains, so they stuck with it.

For totally new TD guys, before you think the Wheel landing is the answer to all your problems, I've seen guys bunce off the mains and hop down the runway. Put it down too hard, too fast, or with too much forward stick, and it can go just as bad as a full stall landing. BOTH methods take finess and skill. IF you can master one, you can master the other. Both have their place.

Either way, the key is to practice and just learning to roll with the good and the bad. Every landing is a learning experience. Even the GOOD ones. But I've learned far more from the bad ones! LOL. anyway, you can make bad landings in any configuration. So what? If some fart on the side lines judges, ask him why HE IS NOT FLYING today? That usually shuts em up. :rolleyes:
 
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HA! Dude, you don't know lazy till you look at your rusted, 60 year old quad-fold hanger door and think screw it, its just too much trouble to force open today!!! :eek:
 
three point landing

Everyone that comes to Vernonia and takes flight training from me does a three point power off landing from 3000 ft. Mike
 
So now instead of "Taildragger pilots are better than Tryicycle pilots", we have to have an argument on "Guys that fly three-pointers are better than those who only wheel land"?

Talk about eating your own....

A good all around pilot can do either, and uses whichever is most appropriate at the time. I seriously doubt that you'll find any high-time -8 driver who would disagree with that - and none of them I know would ever say that you CAN'T three-point them - we all do...when appropriate.
 
So now instead of "Taildragger pilots are better than Tryicycle pilots", we have to have an argument on "Guys that fly three-pointers are better than those who only wheel land"?

Talk about eating your own....

I don't think anyone implied that intentionally or otherwise. Agree that good pilots can do both. I think the comments were about pilots who are one-trick ponies who are only comfortable and competent with one type of landing and not another. You could say the same thing about pilots who only ever 3-point and have no competence or skill with wheel landings. This is generally speaking. I know there are certain aircraft types that are truly not well suited for either 3-pointing or wheel landing. The RV-8 or any other RV is not one of them. You'll never see a Sukhoi do a wheel landing, and I've never seen a DC-3 do a 3-pointer.
 
Paul no one has said anything about anyone being a better this or that. We are just talking about how the -8 can, in fact, be three pointed. There is apparently a lot of misconception out there that says it can't or that it cannot do it well. Musing on WHY people think that it cannot, is not a negative commentary on folks who fly trigear and then transition to an RV and only wheel land them. Its simply a possible observation as to why new RV-TD guys gravitate to wheel landings as their predominent form of landing. The more experience one gains from practicing EITHER type of landing, the less they think one or the other cannot be done. So I am not sure what you are getting at. This entire conversation has been an attempt to get folks to practice more often. No where is anyone saying you suck if you can't do one of the other.

"Anybody here do a completely power off approach and landing to 3 point (in a RV)? "
Toolbuilder, yes. All the time. Every time we practice engine out (well, power off, anyway) landings. Its no different than a power off approach for a wheelie except your speed is slower on short final -- assuming you are normally coming in 5 to 10 mph faster for a wheel landing, which is typical if you are using them for cross winds. Our technique is to use no more than 20 degree of flaps until the field is assured, then full flaps while dropping the nose slightly, then flairing into the stall to get it slowed down as much as possible at contact - mainly because its practice not only to make the field, but to stop before hitting the cow or fence inconveniently placed in your emergancy landing spot in the real world. Again, probably not explaining that exactly. Which is why guys like Mike are out there for transition training.
 
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I do tail low wheelies in the -8 and Rocket most of the time, but I am capable of doing a 3 point if I drag it in under power. That said, I doubt my Rocket or -8 will 3 point at all with power off. There just isn't enough elevator when solo to make it happen. As it is, I run out of trim in the pattern well above my desired glide speed and I'm using the majority of stick travel maintaining that speed....There just isn't enough left to flare.
 
I have been doing 3 point landings for the last 20years of flying taildraggers. It was once suggested that I should do whelies. I tried it and didn't like it, so back to 3 pointing. I did it for 12 years in a Corby Starlet, no flaps and found it was OK to get on the back edge of the power curve, come down like a brick and at 100' push the nose down to get enough energy to flare.
I may try to wheel the RV4 on, just to see what it is like.
 
Paul no one has said anything about anyone being a better this or that. We are just talking about how the -8 can, in fact, be three pointed. There is apparently a lot of misconception out there that says it can't or that it cannot do it well. Musing on WHY people think that it cannot, is not a negative commentary on folks who fly trigear and then transition to an RV and only wheel land them. Its simply a possible observation as to why new RV-TD guys gravitate to wheel landings as their predominent form of landing. The more experience one gains from practicing EITHER type of landing, the less they think one or the other cannot be done. So I am not sure what you are getting at. This entire conversation has been an attempt to get folks to practice more often. No where is anyone saying you suck if you can't do one of the other.

"Anybody here do a completely power off approach and landing to 3 point (in a RV)? "
Toolbuilder, yes. All the time. Every time we practice engine out (well, power off, anyway) landings. Its no different than a power off approach for a wheelie except your speed is slower on short final -- assuming you are normally coming in 5 to 10 mph faster for a wheel landing, which is typical if you are using them for cross winds. Our technique is to use no more than 20 degree of flaps until the field is assured, then full flaps while dropping the nose slightly, then flairing into the stall to get it slowed down as much as possible at contact - mainly because its practice not only to make the field, but to stop before hitting the cow or fence inconveniently placed in your emergancy landing spot in the real world. Again, probably not explaining that exactly. Which is why guys like Mike are out there for transition training.

As a neophyte talking with pros, I appreciate the time and effort of you-all sharing what you know and believe on the subject.

I am a current CFI and know about evaluating events in airplanes, making adjustments to get better results and agree, practice, practice is so important. But I have a huge hole in my flying back ground due to a lack of experience landing tail draggers. I am having difficulty making the necessary adjustments to get the 8 to land gracefully in the the 3 point attitude. So the input is welcome. Thanks.

To date I have 28 hours in the 8 with some 80 attempted landings from various approach set ups and flap settings with power on and off. So far wheel landings with power on and flaps 20 or 40 have worked best for me. Not always as graceful as I would like but more so than attempting 3 pointers.

I do not believe stopping distance is an issue. I am doing well with our 2200' of asphalt (or 1700' of parallel grass) and clearing tall trees. I believe runway behind the aircraft while waiting for a nearly stalled machine is easily recovered with light braking in the tail up wheel landing.

As mentioned earlier, I like the book "Stick and Rudder". With all the stuff written on the subject, this 1943 publication rings true with me most. Langewiesche has good marks for wheel landings in any airplane. But I will keep working on 3 pointers when conditions are right. I may get it one of these days. I am not concerned about a label if I don't, I have no EGO on this subject. What's important to me is confidence in getting the job done - like landing and not bending metal - and enjoying doing it. I never thought I would admit it, but I do like the tail dragger operation better than the 7A. :)

One comment about a prop strike doing wheel landings needs clarification. With longerons level, Grove airfoil gear legs and a Catto 68x74, the prop here is 14.4" above the floor. There is no way a prop strike will occur during a wheel landing unless the pilot is totally disconnected and pushes it over at very low speed. It can not be pushed over at higher landing speed.
 
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Interesting reading here. I came to the 8 from a C180 (I still fly the 180 as much if not more than the 8, have about 70 hours on the 8 in the last 7 months since acquisition).

Wheel landings in the 180, it is very much possible to nose over completely (not me, not my plane, not my video, hope nothing more than his pride was bruised and that he was back in the air soon after). I see people trying to "pin" the airplane forward, that's what I did at first until I was shown an old MAF document about wheel landing the 180. Trim for 500ft rate of descent with 12-14" MAP and one or two notches of flaps. Ease back slightly, not really a flare, just before touchdown, then reduce power as soon as the wheels touch. If I'm empty and I drop the flaps right after touchdown, the tail will drop pretty quick. See video here.

Full stall landings are incredibly easy. I don't have any "normal" ones on video, but here is one with a lot of brakes in approx. 120ft. Full flaps, about 50mph or less on short final, lots of flare and I'm playing with throttle to pick my touchdown point. Easy to stop in under 150ft, but if I have non-aviation folks inside I don't normally make such abrupt landings unless we're going in to a very short dirt strip.

In the 8, I normally come in at 65mph with a little power, no flare, keep the tail a tad low, let the mains touch and then reduce power and keep it straight. If I do my part it's pretty smooth and I don't feel like I'm going to nose over at all. I don't have any recent video, but here's one day and one night landing that's from January (2 weeks with the 8). Also, here's a landing at Catalina Island the week later.

If anyone has specifics on airspeeds or power settings for three pointing the RV8, or tips on improving the RV8 landings I posted (I do feel like I have progressed slightly in the months since, but they're fairly representative), I am all ears.
 
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As with many things in life, it's not the arrows, it's the Indian. :)
 
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For the sake of the archives: Despite the comments above, no one has ever said the -8 couldn't be 3 pointed. Comment was in fact made that *in the -8*, this was not as "comfortable" as wheel landing, or a "nose high" wheel landing.

Also, the -8 may run out of elevator authority (hit the stops) in the slow, high aoa condition. As in trying to make a 3 point landing, depending on specific cg. This might pose a safety concern for those not familiar. I personally ran out of elevator and landed pretty hard trying to 3 pt on my first flight (single occupant, heavy fuel, fwd cg). If I had known this, I wouldn't have attempted a 3 pt on my first landing.
 
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Maybe this will help

David,

I am transitioning to tail wheel and I was also having trouble judging my height above the ground and exactly where to flair. I had been looking at the end of the runway and trying to judge height from that prospective. My problem is exasperated because I have very limited vision in my left eye, so peripheral vision to the left is almost nonexistent. My instructor and I finally concluded I need to make a concerted effort to look at the ground out the left window alternately while checking pitch out the front. As you mentioned in your first post, this seems to be working much better for me now.

A few week after working on this I was reading through my July issue of AOPA ?Flight Training? magazine and found an article written by Rod Machado on the exact subject. The point was ?If older students are taught to rely on peripheral vision to flare the airplane, then they?ll have difficulty sensing their height above the ground ? especially if they wear corrective?. We loose peripheral vision as we grow older. This was exactly what you and I had concluded.

I hope this helps/encourages? and for everyone else this will be good for all of us to understand and consider (not that any of us are getting older).

If anyone would like to read the entire article just PM or email me and I?ll send you a copy.
 
David,

I am transitioning to tail wheel and I was also having trouble judging my height above the ground and exactly where to flair. I had been looking at the end of the runway and trying to judge height from that prospective. My problem is exasperated because I have very limited vision in my left eye, so peripheral vision to the left is almost nonexistent. My instructor and I finally concluded I need to make a concerted effort to look at the ground out the left window alternately while checking pitch out the front. As you mentioned in your first post, this seems to be working much better for me now.

A few week after working on this I was reading through my July issue of AOPA ?Flight Training? magazine and found an article written by Rod Machado on the exact subject. The point was ?If older students are taught to rely on peripheral vision to flare the airplane, then they?ll have difficulty sensing their height above the ground ? especially if they wear corrective?. We loose peripheral vision as we grow older. This was exactly what you and I had concluded.

I hope this helps/encourages? and for everyone else this will be good for all of us to understand and consider (not that any of us are getting older).

If anyone would like to read the entire article just PM or email me and I?ll send you a copy.

Thank you Dean. That pretty well confirms what I have learned. I have stopped trying to judge flare height over the nose but rely on a glance out the left side going into the flare, it works most of the time.

Curiously, on take off I have much better results staying on center line looking out the right side.

The issue of wheel landing vrs 3 pointer with the 8 is a matter of pilot choice IMHO. Same can be said about any airplane/pilot combination.

My favorite uncle who passed away recently in Alaska, was a bush pilot extraordinary for many years with his 0320 Super Cub. He could not function without it being an avid hunter and fisherman, at one point a licensed hunting/fishing guide. The Cub was on floats about half the season depending what was going on.

He would charter a helicopter to gain access to some favorite fishing or hunting site and carve out a 400' strip with a chain saw, axe and shovel. Some landing sites had a dog leg. I flew with him over the years into some of those spots, it was always a pleasure although being an airline pilot disinterested in TW ops at the time, I did not appreciate how flew the Cub. I do remember going into those sites, it was a power on approach, plop we were on and stopped just like that. It had to be a 3 pointer. Coming out it was full power (with a take off prop turning about 2400 rpm) stick forward tail up, stick back and we were flying in about the time to say it. Then it was throttle back to prevent an over speed.

In a recent conversation with his wife about how Jim flew the Cub, she responded it was always with the tail in the air, landing or taking off, I guess those were wheel landings she said. That must have been back at Homer Airport, in the bush it was a 3 pointer I am sure.

In his last days as I was building the 8 I tried to get him to talk to me about flying the Cub but he was too far gone with some sort of dementia. He was still smart enough though to know his days were numbered. He simply quit eating and checked out. Being just 6 years older than me, he was a roll model all my life since my earliest recollection. He enlisted in the USAF at age 18, got into the old aviation cadet program and graduated #1 in his class. I did likewise but graduated no where near #1 but somewhere in the middle. In my book no one was as good in an airplane as Uncle Jim. He was one of kind for sure.
 
Landing distance.....

.....not too shabby.

I am still not much good at 3 pointing the -8 but managing with wheel landings.

So how much runway is needed to wheel land the -8? I decided to measure it with a surveyors wheel. The spot where the aircraft turned off the grass onto asphalt was very clear and marked with a flag.

The runway approach is over trees, not real high but they are there and make difficult to use the first 200' of the runway. Typical touch down for me is about 400' from the end, some days a little less.

Approach speed is 60KIAS, 127% over full flap stall. Touch down is estimated to be 50-55. Tail up, forward stick, light braking as the aircraft slows. Tail is down at about 40 knots.

The distance to the very end of the runway at a fence was 1120'. The stopping distance from touch down was about 700', I could not find a mark where touch down occurred but know from experience about where it happened. And this was with a down hill slope, exact angle unknown.

Vans says the landing distance at solo weight is 350'. If I can get it on and stopped in 700' without trying anything special - like dragging it in at stall plus nothing - that ain't too shabby. :)

I'll never be the -8 pilot many here are but we are getting along, I do like flying this airplane.
 
700' with a wheel landing is doing just fine David. If you NEED to be landing shorter than that, you are probably stuffing it into a field after an engine failure.... ;)
 
Not all RV-8s are the same.

I enjoyed reading this thread. I couldn't help but notice that differences between RV-8s was pretty much passed over. I've had the privilege of flying eighteen different RV-8s. The solo CG of the various aircraft varied by a significant margin. One 8 had a LYC I0390A1B6 and was even more nose heavy than the Doll with its I0360A1B6. Others had parallel valve 0360s. One had an 0320. Most had the Hartzell constant speeds, but one had the MT composite, and one had a Whirlwind composite. Most guys put the battery in the back, but some put it on the firewall. All of these factors will change how that particular RV-8 will three point.

Solo, the Doll runs out of elevator and wants to dance around the runway until more knots are lost. With Builder Doll in the back seat, I can touchdown tailwheel first, and get a nice "roll on" three pointer.

My first aircraft was a Cessna 140, and I did both kinds of landings. Then only did nose high full stalls in the Gruman AA1-A "Yankee". My first homebuilt was a Pitts S1S, and I really learned what flying a taildragger was all about! I only three pointed the Pitts! Then shared a Christen Eagle II until the Doll was finished. I never wheeled the Eagle either! So three pointing the 8 or doing wheelies is not a pilot skill question. I do both, but wheel land when solo. The Doll is a little nose heavy even with the battery mounted in the back. How many times have us old heads advised to mount the battery in the back?

If your RV-8's CG allows you to do solo three points great! If not, wheel land. I will enjoy watching you do either.
 
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Now that I have 8 hours on my rv-8 I think Danny hit on possibly a key part of all this. The weight and balance must really make a difference. I find MY 1035lbs rv-8 with a 1/3 back cg solo easy to 3 point or wheel land by simply add or removing 10kts off the approach speed.

Today I got the AOA pro calibrated and now if you fly the center donut and flare you get one angle angle push and you touch in 3 point. I'll need to play more to see about AOA for wheel landings, maybe use the green bar of best glide speed?

From my first landing on, this plane is a pussycat! I just love flying it!
 
Passed 100 hours today...

...and feel very confident and comfortable doing a tail low wheel landing. Still cannot do a decent 3 pointer but will keep on trying and see what happens... :)
 
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I do tail low wheelies in the -8 and Rocket most of the time, but I am capable of doing a 3 point if I drag it in under power. That said, I doubt my Rocket or -8 will 3 point at all with power off. There just isn't enough elevator when solo to make it happen. As it is, I run out of trim in the pattern well above my desired glide speed and I'm using the majority of stick travel maintaining that speed....There just isn't enough left to flare.

So you can't stall the airplane at altitude? You run out of elevator? Is this an O540 powered airplane? Just too much stuff up front I guess?
 
From my first landing on, this plane is a pussycat! I just love flying it!

Same here except it was no pussycat for me and my weak brain in the beginning.

It took awhile to rearrange the molecules upstairs coming from a life time of nose wheels and would not go back for anything. Sort of like Caesar crossing the Rubicon.

The airplane is fun to fly! No other way to say it. :) :)
 
With about 30 hours of RV-8 time I can pretty consistently do wheel landings and I do them almost exclusively now. My concern is how much runway I need to accomplish it. I've never got out and measured it but it seems like it could/should be shorter.

On the first day I got my RV-8 I did (tried) 3 point landings during the first flight but that was with the seller in back (poor guy, sorry about that). Each landing seemed like a near disaster. Solo, I painstakingly practiced 3 pointers out in Benson Arizona for three days with horrible results while waiting for poor WX in California clear so I could head home.

Nearly all of my 3 pt landings would result in the tail-wheel touching first followed by the mains which would cause me to spring upward and sometimes sideways triggering a go around. You have to come down sometime. A crowd gathered to watch, none offered advise. My confidence was seriously shaken.

I was almost defeated when I read VAF threads and posts on how to wheel land an RV-8. Thanks everyone for that. Guys I really have come to trust and respect here on these forms giving advise on how they achieve a tail wheel low wheel landing.

On day 4, I went out to practice wheel landings based on techniques shared. In anticipation, the largest crowd so far was out at Benson lined up alongside the runway to watch the results of my efforts.

The first few landings were amazing and the crowd dispersed. They should have stuck around.

Now every time I read David's thread on landings and see his progress I am encouraged.

The first few days in Benson gave me pause and respect for the RV-8 landing manners.


Thanks
 
With about 30 hours of RV-8 time I can pretty consistently do wheel landings and I do them almost exclusively now. My concern is how much runway I need to accomplish it. I've never got out and measured it but it seems like it could/should be shorter.

Hang in there Charlie. At 30 hours I was still getting a surprise on every landing, by 50 things began to settle down and by 100 you will declare victory!

Landing distance is related to the approach speed at least for me. I am using 60-65 KIAS and have no issues with runway used for landing. 1000' feet is routine with a little effort like light braking before the tail flies on, it can be less. It is amazing how wind effects landing distance. Last week due to local construction we had to operate with a tail wind a couple days, not much 4-5 knots, but it sure made a difference in landing roll out, added at least 1000' considering everything.
 
Really glad I found this thread; it's a subject that I've wondered about for years. A lot of good information here. When my -8 is finished, I plan to spend a LOT of time getting to know it as thoroughly as possible. I want to master the aircraft; have that direct connection to it that makes flying feel like an extension of my own body. That's what I've sought from my first hour of flight, and I chose an RV-8 because it checked all the boxes and seems an excellent candidate. I've had to put off the dreams of making this connection for many years, but the wait is over, and I'm on the road. I'll learn everything I can... from VAF; from instructors; from experience.
 
Hang in there Charlie. At 30 hours I was still getting a surprise on every landing, by 50 things began to settle down and by 100 you will declare victory!

I am using 60-65 KIAS and have no issues with runway used for landing. 1000' feet is routine with a little effort like light braking before the tail flies on, it can be less.

Thanks for the encouragement David. I monitored this thread and sincerely appreciate you sharing your honest experiences and more importantly your progression/improvement. Gives a guy hope.

As I turn from base to final I'm shooting for 80 KIAS. Just over the runway I'm 70+ KIAS full flaps. As soon as the wheels are down, I raise the flaps. I used to hold the tail up with excessive forward stick but now let it come down. I don't usually use the brakes hard but rather let it rollout settling for the second turnout.

I will slow my short final down (60-65 KIAS) and check the results.

I would love to master 3 pts in this thing like Mike Seagar taught me in the RV-7. I would like to fly with him again. My first biannual is due in June. Maybe then.


How she's made:
IO-360 Titan
Battery on firewall (bought it that way)
Hartzell CS Prop (Slows down fast)
25 LBS. Kitty Litter in rear baggage compartment (Ballast)
35-40 LBS of bottled water in a back pack strapped in back seat (Ballast)

Shout out to all you Veterans. Thank you for your service.
 
a little change might help

Thanks for the encouragement David.

snip

How she's made:
IO-360 Titan
Battery on firewall (bought it that way)
Hartzell CS Prop (Slows down fast)
25 LBS. Kitty Litter in rear baggage compartment (Ballast)
35-40 LBS of bottled water in a back pack strapped in back seat (Ballast)

Shout out to all you Veterans. Thank you for your service.

Yep - thanks to all Veterans.

Seems to me an aft battery option would help you out. It's not that hard to do!

Carry on!
Mark
 
3 pointing the "8"

I have about 800 hrs.tail dragger time In several different taildraggers . Sold a Citabria before buying my 8. I have 75 prox. hrs in my 8. I still cannot 3 point it. Now if I have someone in the rear I can do it but not consistently. There must be a problem with the plane or me. I am not totally without talent. CG is well within limits. I have to trim the elevator full nose up to lessen the stick load. I don't think anyone else is going to 3 point it either. My 2 cents.
 
Three pointing is not hard at all. I actually like to have tail wheel touch just before the mains touch. in this configuration you can pull full aft on the stick after the mains touch and it wont balloon up on you.
 
As others have stated CG plays a huge roll in 3 pointing the 8. With me solo in there I am pretty much at the front of the envelope other 8s are much more back. In that configuration I can 3 point my 8 but it's a handful and the elevator needs to be all the way back the right amount of time before touchdown to avoid a bounce which doesn't always work out that way .... . Only way I can touch tail first in that configuration is if I carry some power and then cut it at the right moment. On the other hand if I put anybody even my 60lb daughter in the back seat it pretty much 3 points itself (consistently) in comparison.

So I started to wheel land solo and 3 point with passengers ( have about 140 hours in my RV-8 now). If the winds are not to gusty I through in a 3 pointer solo just for good measure once in a while... . Runway length really has never been an issue either way.

Another thing I am wondering about is if I should adjust my elevator stop. I am currently close to the min Vans recommends. That might help 3 pointing solo ... .
 
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