Parachute Selection Question

I just returned from the 3-day RPA formation clinic in Easton MD. Outstanding event, if you have an interest in parking four feet off the wing of another a/c while doing entertaining things. I highly recommend these folks. Professional to the extreme. By the way, if you ever consider flying wing off a T-6, be prepared to feel like the little cartoon dog jumping around the big bull dog on the old Warner brothers cartoons! ANYWAY:

I found one problem with the back-pack style chute I was wearing. Its about 3 inches thick and even with the seat-back cushion removed, it was darn near, but not impossible, to reach back far enough to grab the canopy. Long reach and was just able to get my finger tips on it.

Has anyone any experience with a seat bottom type chute like the Strong Model 304 or equivelent? Some of the Yak guys had them and I loved what I saw, but wondered what it would be like to vacate a cockpit like the RV-8s with a seat cushion pack hanging off your butt. Seems like it might catch on something on the way out.

Really appreciate any feedback on cushion height recommendation, ease of egress, ease of entry, issues unforseen. Thanks

I just got my 304 and 311's for my RV8 from Strong the other day. Haven't had the chance to see how they fit as I'm on a week long trip in my "other" 8!
I will report back next week.

Parachute

Well I can offer evidence on two types. I tried the seat type 304 strong in my 8 and it was the most uncomfortable 3 hours ever. I then added the 1/2 inch comfort foam pad only but the head room was minimal. Others have modified their seat bottoms to make additional head room which seems to work.

I just received and flew with my new Softie mini that is only 2.25 inches thick
So I removed the seat back, it molds to the seat back and was quite comfortable.

As for reaching the canopy you will need to install a stop midway
To close it up

Tad Sargent
Team RV

Me too

I'd be interested to hear what you guys find as I need to get a chute too.

me too

I am also following this thread with interest.

Butler Parachutes

I went with Butler Parachutes. I talked to them at Oshkosh 2 years ago and they locked in a great price for 2 chutes. I was not sure what I wanted to go with up front and they recommended a seat pack up front and a back pack in the back seat. I had been a skydiver in the past (300 jumps, D license) so I was not keen on a seat pack. Butler sent me one to try (a back pack) when I got to the stage in my build where I could see how it fit and they were correct that the back pack pushed you forward in the seat and made it a bit uncomfortable with reference to the panel. They built a custom seat pack that fits perfectly for the front seat of the 8 or 8A. Their customer service is also the best. I am on my longest cross country so far and flew a leg of 4 and a half hours with only mild discomfort in the buttal region. With the 180 day repack I do it once at Oshkosh (there is a rigger at the Warbird briefing room) and then fly to Butler to get it done in the Spring (that?s my plan anyway). If you call prior and set it up they will pick you up at the airport and pack them that day and have you on your way. You can also find a local rigger to pack it or mail it to them. I am a professional pilot and check airman and have the chutes not only for safety but also so that if I land and the Feds know I was doing acro I had better have the chutes on board (FAR 91.307) or they may be pulling my ATP. Hope this helps with your decision, take care and blue skies,

Seat pack works great

I have Butler seatpack parachute system for my -8. I also have the extra temper seat cushion. I remove the bottom seat cushion and wedge completely and sit directly on the metal floor. I leave the seat back cushion in place. This gives me the exact same seating height and sight picture as with my normal seats.
Works best by putting the harness on outside the airplane and then climbing in. It is however impossible to walk with the harness on and look cool at the same time.
I started with a backpack system. I too was a former skydiver and was more comfortable with the idea of a backpack system. However, It was uncomfortable and made operating the controls awkward. I worked with Tom Fowler at Butler and created a system that I am now very happy with.

David

Tim, that is great feedback. I will definitely look into Butler!
I have a few questions and then some observations on the seat-back style for those wondering about that style in the -8.

Tim, on the seat bottom/cushion style; Have you done any practice evact and timed your results?

I know one can not realistically simulate bailing out on the ground, because one is WAY too careful about the radios, panel, throttle, and denting a wing - compared to the real deal where busting parts on the way out is irrelevent. I've talked to some guys who timed at 22 seconds (again, while trying not to step on their panel or throttles). Scary long time. The pilot of Big Beautiful Doll, who had very limited altitude, took 16 seconds from canopy release to clearing the cockpit during the incident deal at Duxford. Although he may have used half of that trying to determine if the ship was truly done and screwed. I've not been able to find out. My interest in this case is how quickly can one get out using a seat bottom style chute?

I do not know anyone who has practiced a bailout to see just what the thing will grab on the way over the side when using this style, and its kind of critical. Let me know your thoughts on simply getting in and out as well as getting out in a hurry using the seat bottom style. Thanks!

On the backpack style. Having put five hours on one this past weekend, I can give the following observations for those interested. I was using a borrowed Mini-Softy. It was 3 to 3.75 inches thick at the fattest. With the seat back removed, I was comfortable and the seat position was such that the stick was actually in a BETTER position as it was closer to me, where it belongs. My feet on the otherhand, were three inches closer to the pedals than normal, meaning my legs had to be bent up a little more. This of course lasted until my brain re-engaged and I adjusted the pedals forward. IF you DO NOT have the adjustable pedals installed in your RV-8, BAD ON YOU. Totally worth the effort.
The panel definitely felt closer but this was mostly not a big deal. The only downside I could see is when flying number two position on the leads left wing. The new seating position puts the frame bow dead smack in the middle of your field of view if you are holding a correct position. You either have to fly forward, for fly sucked back a bit to avoid neck craning. Irrelevent if you are not doing formation.
Evacutation was easy. Pop the restraints, stand up, step out. Since its on your back, as soon as you hoist yourself up, the chute is clear of all obsticals. If you have REALLY long legs, it may not be the style for you. but for a 5-10 to 6 footer, it seemed fine.

I'd still like more info on seat bottom styles, so keep it coming. I need to make a choice next month. Seat bottom seems like it will solve my frame in view issue. But I do not want to give up being able to exit in a screaming hurry. lol.

I do not know anyone who has practiced a bailout to see just what the thing will grab on the way over the side when using this style, and its kind of critical. Let me know your thoughts on simply getting in and out as well as getting out in a hurry using the seat bottom style. Thanks!

Click to expand...

Well, we can start with one question for RV-8 owners who fly with chutes (and that includes me sometimes) - first item in a bail out is "jettison" or at least "open" canopy. How do you propose that in an RV-8?

By all accounts, if you unlatch the canopy, and (try to) slide it back - as soon as you let go, the air loads will close it again. Therefore your bail out drill needs to hope that:

1. Airspeed is so low that the canopy stays open / can be opened / held open while you scramble out
2. You are not in the back seat, where that process will be 5 times harder / less likely to be achieved.

Tip-Up SBS RVs would be harder still? RV-3/4 standard "swing over" canopy are effectively jettisonable, since opening them rips them off (I believe well tested!).

I would tend to believe the seat back chiute would be easier / less likely to catch than the seat bottom, but may be wrong?

Andy Hill
RV-8 G-HILZ
RV8tors

This an a completely different topic but one always worth revisiting. But lets keep the CHUTE thing going as well.

I've had thoughts on the canopy as well. I have a slide lock about four inches back to stop aft travel (used only on ground for fresh air - but tested this weekend in flight). We did a chicken drop (yes, rubber chickens) on Saturday and I was unable to keep the canopy open long enough to stuff the unfortunate rubbery fowl out the gap.

My impression was that if I were able to force the canopy past my imposed limit, you might get past the closing forces...Think feet on panel, screaming maddly while pulling back muscles! BUT it was impossible to hold it open at 3 inches for more than a second without using both hands (yes, I had a GIB on stick while trying). It literally sucked itself back closed.

Not willing to flight test a full aft attempt, this leaves us in a bit of a lurch as RV-8 pilots. My ultimate plan is to redesign the canopy slides so that you can jettison the thing completely by pulling a D-ring and pushing up on the glass. I am not willing to abandom my GIB just cause I am clear. So. Winter Project Numba One.

This brings up something that every -8 pilot needs in his cockpit if he plans on actually having fun beyond trips for burgers. A Canopy Breaker. Something heavy enough to smash that sucker but good. I do not normally wear a Nomex suite, but when doing acro or close formation its totally worth the $40 you pay on ebay for a used one, and worth the smirks you might receive from less adverturous pilots on your field who don't get it. But it gives you plenty of places to dummy cord a canopy buster on your person. You ain't gonna find it if its in your map pocket and your brain is going OH-SH**OHSH**OH**.

At the minimum, you should have a small buster for the normal roll over scenarios. Dummy cord it to something inside the ship so you won't loose it in the "yard sale" if you flip over in a farm field.

In the mean time, if anyone has already designed a means for jettisoning the canopy, please contact me direct with your mods!

Now back to our normal programming: Chutes, Skid-Mark 'm or Back Rest 'em?

Scott...

Thanks for that... it seems the "canopy wants to close" is far more significant than I had thought

The danger with a "canopy jettison" is if it goes unintentionally, will it take the tail off? Or just leave aircraft unflyable? There was a Machetti SF260 over here lost the canopy recently, and only just managed a forced landing - almost lost control.

Andy

Thread creep (not parachute info)

In regards to canopy jettison, here is what I have. I believe I saw this idea on the forum in the past. I have T-pins where the AN bolts go on the rollers.
The procedure is:

pull the T-pins (both of them)
slide (may force is a better word) the canopy back free of the fairing (about an 1.5" on my airplane) and push up hard on the bubble to get it into the slip stream - bye bye.
Better have your seat belts off as who knows what'll happen next....



I believe you could fly with the pins out as the frame is held secure when latched. That would remove a step for egress.

panhandler1956 said:

I believe you could fly with the pins out as the frame is held secure when latched. That would remove a step for egress.

Click to expand...

That is exactly what I do in the -8 (haven't for a long time though) if I am wearing a parachute because I think it might be necessary. Once held forward by the latch, you can pull the pins and be ready to go. I'd not want to try pulling the pins on both sides while tumbling out of control with a broken airframe.

Paul

Not timed it

Scott,

I have not timed myself because there are so many variables that may come into play that I simply have a procedure for getting out that will hopefully work.

1.Canopy ? open/off (use both hands to get it open and into slip stream, kick a pedal if needed. Side slip may help. If out of control pulling it hard with both hands should get it back particularly with added adrenalin).
2. Harness ? Released (I have a Hooker five point harness which is green. Chute is dark blue so there should be no confusion there)
3. If in a negative ?G? situation ? You are leaving the aircraft, legs optional (The distance and speed with which you leave the cockpit in this situation should not cause to much damage to the lower extremities. It certainly beats the alternative)
4. If positive G -- Use hand holds to pull yourself up and if able stand/squat on seat and aim for mid wing and dive for it (this should keep you clear of the tail. I jumped out of a T-6 once from the back and used this technique to clear the tail. It was a sport jump and the pilot had total control of the aircraft).

I am a small guy (5 foot 7) so being vertically challenged I think gives me a bit of an advantage in getting out. I think the biggest issue is commitment to use the chute if you get in that situation as your comments about Duxford indicate. Also make sure if you are using a seat pack that you fit it properly, which is a little more time consuming than a seat pack. Thanks for starting a great thread and good luck with your choice,

panhandler1956 said:

Better have your seat belts off as who knows what'll happen next....

Click to expand...

My dad and I took an egress training course when we purchased our 'chutes. We were taught that the seat belt unlatching is the LAST thing you do. The reasoning behind this is that if you unbuckle the seat belt and the plane, likely in pretty bad shape, does something unexpected, you could easily be thrown around the cockpit into a position where you couldnt finish the egress procedure. Get the canopy out of the way, plane ready for you to leave, unlatch and get out.

I thought the same as you until after that class.

8 and a parachute

I removed my seat back and put it in a drawer
Then installed a Mini Softie back pack
Chute. Man is this an improvement
I keep my seat bottom and only needed to
Move the rudder pedals forward a notch for the lumbar support I had created while it was packed
The thickness is the same so I'm not any more forward than
Before. I have a three hour flight this weekend and can report back
On the comfort factor after real evidence of time.

Man is it soft.
Tad Sargent (wearing a chute)
Team RV

I had exactly the same question a few years back ---How to get out of an RV 8 in an emergency. I took my cues from Paul Dye ( Ironflight), and installed "pip Pins" on my canopy. See panhandler 1956's picture--that's also what I have. You either remove them (and stash them in a safe spot) before takeoff, or you "could"? take them off in flight. If I'm doing acro, they're off before takeoff. I figure if I can unlock the canopy, slide it back just a smidgen, and push up, that canopy is going to be gone instantly. I have a back pack chute. I just measured it and it pushes me forward about 2.5 to 3 inches in my cockpit.

Now I have to pour cold water on the getting out part. I'm 5' 10". The chute puts my knees pretty much under that nice sharp bottom edge of the instrument panel, and then your feet are way up by the rudder pedals. ( Even without the chute, my knees are somewhat under the instument panel). I have visions of no knee caps or even worse, a foot and ankle caught with an airplane out of control with a human ragdoll still attached.

I had an instructor in the Marines who bailed out of a T 28 and never opened his chute. They figured he hit the horizontal stabilizer and the stabilizer on a 28 is a heck of a lot futher back than on an RV 8. Here's what a friend recomended for my 8. ( And I would love feedback from you guys to see what you think of this idea). Get all unstrapped - Don't forget to also shed your headset), trim the aircraft a little nose down, blow the canopy either right side up or upside down, roll upside down and fall out of the aircraft.

I've sat in my 8 with the parachute on and tried to simulate this in my mind. Of course the knees and ankle problem comes to mind. I tried putting my heels on the forward edge of the seat so they would hopfully clear on the way out. What does everyone think of this?

Oh incidentally, someone mentioned one of those little hamer swingy things for busting your canopy? I've got a big hunting knife valcroed inside my fuselage for canopy shattering. (Navy/Marines idea, not mine, but I kept the idea--one guy here on vans airforce said he carried a gun for canopy shattering)

donaziza said:

Here's what a friend recomended for my 8. ( And I would love feedback from you guys to see what you think of this idea). Get all unstrapped - Don't forget to also shed your headset), trim the aircraft a little nose down, blow the canopy either right side up or upside down, roll upside down and fall out of the aircraft.

Click to expand...

Well, first I would say that it is good that you have thought your way through the scenario - having a plan is better than NOT having a plan. but if you have enough control of the airplane to do all that....why are you bailing out?!

Lots of people have managed to get out of wildly tumbling, broken airframes throughout aviation history. Some have not. Knowing how you plan to force your way out of the cockpit is a good idea, but clearly there will still be an element of risk.

donaziza said:

Here's what a friend recomended for my 8. ( And I would love feedback from you guys to see what you think of this idea). Get all unstrapped - Don't forget to also shed your headset), trim the aircraft a little nose down, blow the canopy either right side up or upside down, roll upside down and fall out of the aircraft.

Click to expand...

So, if you have this kind of control of your aircraft, why would you bail out? (unless it's a fire)

Some interesting comments above...

One concern about the Pip-Pins... especially removing them routinely. All it takes is one knock of the canopy opening handle and you could lose the canopy there and then, and in turn potentially the aircraft.

Factors are of course whether you would lose the canopy (airloads), and if it did go would it clear the tail / cause minimal damage? But they are significant factors when judged against the small probability of needing the chute.

Andy

Andy, my thoughts were, I don't much care what happens to the airframe once I commit to pupping the canopy, cause, lord willing, I ain't staying with that broke sucker longer than it takes me to pop the harness and wave fairwell. LOL. Only way I am parting company is if I am on fire, or if I am missing critical parts for continued flight. So meh, canopy induced tail crunch is kinda moot at that point.

I like this pin idea. I was thinking about the issue over breakfast, discussing it with some other pilots. I had hit upon a pin/wire/D-ring idea -- complicated, but assured to retain the canopy under negative loads and if you somehow managed to open the thing in flight an inch, which seems unlikely considering how much it DOES NOT want to open, you'd still have positive attachement. I like having something actually retaining the canopy until I decide otherwise.

Having said that, this pin idea looks very tempting. Simplicity itself.

So, reading the comments, it appears a number of you remove the pins after latching the canopy and trust it to remain in place under G-loads. Seems sound, but I might work something similar by removing one pin and D-ringing the remaining pin or dummy cording it to the canopy latch. Convince me its safe to remove both. Seems counter intuitive...but considering how much this lid wants to remain closed, maybe I am over thinking it?

Oh, and before I forget, someone said something about having a plan. This really is critical. The headset is a PERFECT example. If you do not remove your headset and toss it aside you can guarantee it will foul your departure. The leads are not just going to rip free.

Which brings up one more point. Have a hold of that chute D ring BEFORE you exit. It seems like the simplest thing to find, but by all accounts, if it is not in your hand when you jump, you are going to spend a LOT of time fanning your body trying to find that sucker! One of my best friends was a jump master and he has "hilarious" stories of students "playing the accordian" in free fall trying to find the rip cord. And those jumps were for FUN, with plenty of altitude and no surprises. We don't have that luxury.

Ironflight said:

Well, first I would say that it is good that you have thought your way through the scenario - having a plan is better than NOT having a plan. but if you have enough control of the airplane to do all that....why are you bailing out?!

Lots of people have managed to get out of wildly tumbling, broken airframes throughout aviation history. Some have not. Knowing how you plan to force your way out of the cockpit is a good idea, but clearly there will still be an element of risk.

Click to expand...

Paul, Because I'm on fire and/or have thick black smoke in my face. If its because a wing has come off, than of course you're entirely correct.

Hi Scott...

Andy, my thoughts were, I don't much care what happens to the airframe once I commit to pupping the canopy, cause, lord willing, I ain't staying with that broke sucker longer than it takes me to pop the harness and wave fairwell. LOL. Only way I am parting company is if I am on fire, or if I am missing critical parts for continued flight. So meh, canopy induced tail crunch is kinda moot at that point.

Click to expand...

You miss my point. I am saying if the canopy can be accidentally jettisoned (1 action - knock canopy handle), then there is a chance that the device(s) added to save you actually end up killing you

In an RV-7/8, the chance of needing to bail out are very small - we have thousands of examples flying, doing formation / aeros etc., and an incredibly small number where a chute would have made a difference. Any "modification" to add safety e.g. these Pip-Pins then removed for flight, should be analysed to see if it clearly adds safety - not introduce new hazards such you end up less safe than you started.

I have not seen enough to make that judgement call yet... useful info coming through here, but I am not yet convinced about removing these Pip-Pins for flight.

Andy

Andy, I got what you were saying. Thanks. I was coming at it from the other angle. I am actually with you on the pin issue. I am trying to wrap my head around removing them BEFORE the need. Not sure I am comfortable with that. I see it kind of like the Master Switch issue. Once in your lifetime, or twice, or three times if you are just thick like ME, you will leave it ON. Seems a given that once in your lifetime, you will forget to replace the pins before opening the canopy while taxiing. High heat day, you land, slide the canopy back to get some releif...DOH! No thanks! lol.

Hence my thoughts on trying to come up with an active release system that would combine pins AND a pull ring. I WANT to be able to pull something to actively release during an actual emergency. Not in prep for one. This conversation is all on the PREP side. Trying to hash out whats required.

As far as ever needing it? Irrelevent. I don't need a 16 round magazine to put down an armed burgler, but I am darn tootin happy to have one when I discover he brought three friends!!!

While I agree with Andy completely about not adding a step that makes you more susceptible to another failure, I have not found the canopy handle (at least in my airplane) easy to unlock - it is an over-center latch device that can't really be bumped. Coupled with the known reports that the canopy on an -8 is pushed CLOSED (forward) by aeroloads, I am not worried about it opening accidentally even if the latch were unlatched.

But...I should also note that I haven't pulled those pins since Phase 1 testing, because I don't routinely wear a chute for the kind of Acro I fly on a daily basis. Needing to bail out due to a structural failure in an RV is an EXTREMELY remote possibility (yup, they are that strong). If you are wearing a chute for the event of a fire, then of course, you probably need to plan for this on every flight, and you might want to build a more sophisticated mechanism for pulling the pins.

As for forgetting to put the pins back in before opening the canopy, this is a complete non-event - if you use the pins in place of the bolts that hold the roller support brackets in to the frame. Gravity holds the frame on the roller mounts. If you use the pins in place of the roller AXEL bolts, it would be a mess, but I certainly don't advocate that....(actually, I don't know how you'd do that).

Just my thoughts, and Andy is right - make sure you think through the process and don't create larger risks than you are preventing!

Paul

I have been reading this thread and not said much. I am working on a group buy for the Strong 304 and the 311 models. If you are interested in purchasing an emergency parachute, read below and send me a PM.

Must purchase 5 or more:
Strong model 311 (wedge back) $1875 each
Strong model 304 (seat type) $1800 each

Thanks for the clarification Paul. Good to know you can taxi with the pins out!
As the topic has evolved, let me clarify on the WHY of using a chute in my case, and why I started the post, just so there is no confusion for those joining the post and thinking it?s about any perceived issue with the RV design.

One, the stated original intent of the post, was to find a proper, comfortable chute that will allow expedient egress while providing comfort for extended flights. Back versus Seat. Brands. Configurations within styles, wedge versus back, thin seat versus bottom heavy seat. That was my intent.

Subject Two, canopy release, which the post has evolved toward -- in MY case, has less to do with aerobatics (although I do those) and everything to do with tight, parade or demonstration type formation flying, which I have done for some time and hope to get into at a deeper level, with an ever increasing number of ships.

I have a fair amount of faith in the aircraft design. So please don?t anyone assume otherwise.

Should someone boogger up a cross-under during a formation display and chew my tail off, or crush a wing due to a botched rejoin, I want to be able to immediately vacate the office. I trust my wing mates and I fly with FAST certified wingmen or prior military ego-jockeys, but I believe completely in Reagan?s adage, TRUST, BUT VERIFY. LoL. In this case, I want to verify that should the unthinkable happen, I?ve done thunk about it and am prepared with a proper chute and a quick canopy release mechanism.

AX-O, Just so you know, I found one chute dealer selling the Strong 304 with the military C-9 chute (28 Foot) for $1600, in case anyone wants to go that route. See if he can price out those as well for the group. It would be interesting to see if they?d come down to $1400!! Your group price on the Strong 304 with the LoPo chute (26 foot) is outstanding, I may want in, if I go with a seat pack.

I am still trying to get a weight on the C-9 equipped 304. I believe it may come in around 18 to 19 pounds, which maybe be heavier than I or others want. I think the LoPo style chute is around 16 to 17 pounds?? The C-9 represents a massive $$ savings from the standard 304/LoPo chute. And it?s a military grade chute with no life limit. But it?s definitely heavier. And will sit taller on the floor. Decisions, decisions!

Until the advent of the ejection seat, pretty much all tactical aircraft sported seat packed chutes. Like they told me a long time ago, you've got to practice. When the airplane is out of control and headed for the ground is not the time to work out the details. Also, if you get a seat pack chute, let me know how they feel to sit on for a while.

jthocker said:

I just got my 304 and 311's for my RV8 from Strong the other day. Haven't had the chance to see how they fit as I'm on a week long trip in my "other" 8!
I will report back next week.

Click to expand...

Mutha,

What's your assessment of the 304 and 311? Had a chance to fly with them yet?

Parachute's by definition are uncomfortable!!!

Let's be honest, parachutes NO MATTER WHICH KIND, are NEVER comfortable. I fly about 200 hours a year with one strapped on, so take this for what it is worth.

When your chute is repacked (every 6 months remember...) tell the gentleman doing to work to repack it "diaper down" this will moved the thick part of the chute lower (to the small of your back). This serves two purposes, more upper body mobility, and good lower back support when getting your G on. Another benefit of this packing style is the chute won't "ride up" when doing negative G stuff!

bach33089 said:

When your chute is repacked (every 6 months remember...) tell the gentleman doing to work to repack it "diaper down" this will moved the thick part of the chute lower (to the small of your back). This serves two purposes, more upper body mobility, and good lower back support when getting your G on. Another benefit of this packing style is the chute won't "ride up" when doing negative G stuff!

Click to expand...

We just received our new chute from Paraphernalia (a "Mini-Softie") that we bought just for the RV-3, and Dan recommended the same thing - packing it "diaper down". I sat in the plane a little while last night with it, and this is perfect advice - FAR more comfortable than the "standard pack" National 360 I have had for a number of years (but rarely wear because of that "uncomfort factor").

Paul

304 seat pack and 311 back pack for RV8

I haven't flown with them yet but tried them both on.
Initial reaction is that the 304 seat pack not only needs the seat cushion removed but also the seat back. This is for the front seat. I got a 2 inch comforfoam cushion with the 304 and this appears to be about right for me.
Getting out of the plane with this contraption on though looks difficult at best!
The 311 for the rear seat seems to work well with the rear seat back cushion removed.
Mutha

Aaah the comfort factor is High with the mini Softie backpack in my 8
I traded a 304 seat type for it. I flew 2.5 hours then three air show performances and returned home 3 hours. It works for my needs. Definitely order the aerobatic harness

Tad "Stripes" Sargent
TeamRV

tadsargent said:

Aaah the comfort factor is High with the mini Softie backpack in my 8
I traded a 304 seat type for it. I flew 2.5 hours then three air show performances and returned home 3 hours. It works for my needs. Definitely order the aerobatic harness

Tad "Stripes" Sargent
TeamRV

Click to expand...

Stripes,

Do you think it moves you closer to the panel than the seat back cushion? Why the aerobatic harness? Web site indicates aero harness for lots of negative G work, if not planning on that would you still recommend aero harness?

Limiter

I did move about 1/2 inch closer to the panel but I was able to move my seat back rearward the next setting, This restored the balance.
The aerobatic harness are more confortable, eliminating one buckle and moves the other two higher and this does two things, one the seatbelt harnesses do not dig into the buckles about your hips and second it makes it easier to put on and take off quickly. This is not a usual event for most but I need this feature at air shows as we attempt to exit our planes to waive at the crowds. Additionally the buckles are higher and I suspect you won't attempt to unbuckle them in a panic as I practice reaching for the seat buckle only.

YMMV
Stripes

Paul/Tad:

I concur, Softie is definitely my favorite in terms of comfort, something about the canopy design I suppose, but I have a Strong packed "diaper down" (they call it something different, but I can't for the life of me remember the "lingo") and it is not as comfortable as my Mini Softie. The Softies are all I fly anymore!

As for the Acro Harness, I think it is just a preference with location of the straps, I don't know that it has any benefit for Aerobatics. If you are doing a lot of negative G's, Softie offers a "Negative G Pad." I think they charged me $60 for it, and it is tremendously effective in keeping the chute from "riding up" when pushing hard negative G's, or when doing aggressive maneuvers (shoulder rolls, lomcovaks, outside snap rolls, etc.) but I don't think they are necessary for the type of Acro the RV's are best suited for.

Update on this thread. I have been flying with a borrowed seat BACK style chute for a month now. Here are my thoughts/experiences based on a seat BACK chute approximately 2.5 to 3.5 inches thick:

1: Don't bend your control stick if you want to use the seat BACK chute. In use, with parachute on, it places the control stick perfectly to hand, which may be why Van put it there?

2: A bent stick may interfere with full aft stick travel if you have a gut AND use seat back style chute.

3: Aerobatics are still comfortable and the "new" grip position may enhance the experience.

4: The Back type pushes you about 2 to 3 inches forward or the normal cushion position so you will have to get used to the new "feel" as the panel is closer and the roll bar will be in your line or sight, uncomfortably at times. Its not aligned with your cheek bones, but it may "feel" like it till you get used to it.

5: In formation flying from number Two position (left side), the roll bar will be dead nuts in your line of sight to the flight Lead, so you will have to goose neck forward or backward or modify flight position.

6: You will want an RV-8 with adjustable rudder pedals due to being shoved forward. I can't imagine using fixed rudder pedals if you are say, 5' 10" and made the fixed pedal position close.

7: Egress is fairly simple. Grap cockpit sides/canopy rail, STAND UP. No interference, although your face does feel closer than I'd like to the roll bar.

8: If you are over 6' get a SEAT Pack. Otherwise you are going to feel really crammed in and hard pressed to be comfortable.

Thats about it. Going to try to bum a Strong 304 SEAT pack soon and give it a go, unless someone else pipes up for that style.