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RE: Paint and Fish Eyes ?????

fstringham7a

Well Known Member
RE: Paint and Fish Eyes ?????

As some of you know I WAS painting my RV7A with the Stewart System Paint products.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=33556&highlight=painting+begun

The learning curve, at least for me, was steep and long. But after painting the fuse and cowl....which turned out great... I started getting fish eyes as I was painting the empennage. I tried everything to remediate and get rid of them. I even used some pretty expensive cleaners.



But still no Joy. :confused:

So I decided after some soul searching(end of March 2009) that the plane was going to the airport to be put together, certified and flown .......even though it is only half painted. Wings/wing tips/gear fairing/wheel pants/were not painted. The plane looks like a good looking gal with only half of here makeup on. :eek:



Yesterday I did decide to paint the VS/HS fairing. I at least wanted the fuse to look reasonable with all of it's parts painted. I had shoot the gray UV coat last Feb. but it did need a little work to fill in some pin holes. But knowing it was going to get fish eyes and would be painted this fall or early next year by a REAL PAINTER I decided to shoot the white base prime and shoot the paint.

Yesterday afternoon I gave it a clean job with the aforementioned cleaners. Got everything ready and shoot the white primer base coat. This AM I gave it a light sanding.......made the final decision not to worry about the 4 or 5 pin holes. Cleaned it again with the high dollar cleaners......and shoot the Sun Valley Ivory final coat.

First mist coat looks pretty good so I let it tack up. Turn the fluid flow up an 1/8 of a turn. Shot the 2nd coat and it look reasonable. Turn the fluid flow up another 1/8 of a turn. After the paint tacked up I shot the third coat. Now here is the point in the process where I would begin to see the signs of FISH EYES. What?????? No FISH EYES YET ?????? Maybe my memory is faulty. I know I will see them after the final 1/4 turn on the fluid flow and shooting the 4th coat. So lets shoot the 4th coat and watch those little buggers develop.

The picture doesn't show it ...but not one fish eye.......????????????



Not sure what the answer is and I figure on this one I may never know. I do know that the plane will get painted. Again not just by me.

I am still a fan of the Stewart Paint Sytem. I do believe that a paint booth would have solved much of my problem. I just think an open garage...at least for me didn't work. I would say the only negitive is you only get one chance to shoot this paint and if it doesn't turn out there is going to be a lot of sanding and a reshoot of the whole part.

So I will now go back to the airport to finish that last few items before the DAR showes up.

The plane will catch air real soon so stay tuned!!!!!!!!!

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... last few details before DAR!!!!!!!!
 
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In my experience, fish eyes are caused by two things: water in the air or silicone contamination. Since you were able to get rid of them, I suspect that a change in temp/humidity solved your problem for you. That's my theory and I am sticking to it.

Gary Specketer
 
RE:True

In my experience, fish eyes are caused by two things: water in the air or silicone contamination. Since you were able to get rid of them, I suspect that a change in temp/humidity solved your problem for you. That's my theory and I am sticking to it.

Gary Specketer

True / True.....but here in the deseret SW it is really dry....plus we had a high humidity day today!!!!! I do believe that the silicone/oil is probably the culprit. But today I used the same materials / equipment as I used back in March. March fish Eyes........May no Fish Eyes. Go Figure!!!!!!:eek:

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A...
 
I would pay careful attention to silicone contamination, it can come from places and products that you may not be aware of and can linger and travel quite a distance. Many cleaner/recon products contain it and it is the bane of any painter.
 
I would pay careful attention to silicone contamination, it can come from places and products that you may not be aware of and can linger and travel quite a distance. Many cleaner/recon products contain it and it is the bane of any painter.

Bob

I talked with a local auto painter that uses water borne paint. He said that one day they were getting a bunch of fish eyes.....After much investigation they determined that one of his detail crew was using Armor All on the interior of a car out in the parking lot and it was pulling it into the interior paint booth through there fan system. It had to travel at least 30 plus yards.
He then had to upgrade his filtration system $$$$$$$ to stop these little atoms. He even suggested that my fish eyes might be coming from pollen in the air. That was when I called it a day(March 2009). I just don't have the necessary bucks $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ to build a perfect paint both!!!!!!!!!!!!

I learned alot. I could lay on the paint as good as the big boys. The Stewart System paint is easy to use. I just couldn't trust the outcome given my archaic paint booth.

Frank @ 1l8 ...RV7A...
 
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Watch out !!

Since it is safe, non-toxic, and makes thing slick, lots of consumer products with "secret" formulas contain silicone such as your favorite underarm stick deodorant so it slides on smoother. Silicone is also used in a variety of other personal hygiene products such as shampoo, shaving gels, hair conditioners and gels, and even that lube commonly used in the bedroom. :D
 
Silicone or oil

Like I said before I used an old air line that MANY years ago had an oiler on the front end of it...Fish eyes all over the place.

Changed for a NEW airline and an oil free air compressor...No more fish eyes.

If you can't go oil free make sure you have a good remover..Sam Bucannan made one I believe.

Frank
 
Like I said before I used an old air line that MANY years ago had an oiler on the front end of it...Fish eyes all over the place.

Changed for a NEW airline and an oil free air compressor...No more fish eyes.

If you can't go oil free make sure you have a good remover..Sam Bucannan made one I believe.

Frank

Hi Frank 1

Copied Sam's setup way early in the game. Plus 3 new air lines during the process.....

Frank 2 @1L8 ....RV7A.... last details
 
Maybe air compressor?

I got oil in my air compressor line when I painted my HS.

Cleaned out the hose with mineral spirits and let dry in the sun with just a little bit of air going through it.

Replaced Air/Oil separator with a larger one,

Changed the inline filter each time I painted the next components and no fishy eyes!

I used the correct dose of anti fish eye additive in each mix of paint.

But the real culprit is my old compressor.
 
RE:Stewart System ?????

Hi Tom

TheStewart System dosen't have a Fish Eye reducer additive that I am a where of?????

By the way thanks for all the great info on hardware!!!!

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... NDY
 
word to the wise

Fisheye Eliminator is actually lowering the surface tension of the paint product you are using. Which in turn is letting the paint ride over the contaminate that is on the surface. Cause and Effect Fisheye Eliminator is lowering the Paints adhesion to the substrate you are applying it over. A long term effect of Fisheye Eliminator can be pealing paint. Just a thought. When using Fisheye Eliminator please follow the paint manufacturers recommended amount....in this case more is not better.....

Rich Denton
BASF Painter Trainer
Senior Systems Tech
 
You are welcome.

Hi Tom

TheStewart System dosen't have a Fish Eye reducer additive that I am a where of?????

By the way thanks for all the great info on hardware!!!!

Frank @ 1L8 ...RV7A... NDY

You are welcome, keeping the foreign material out of the job is key.

Any foreign material in a paint job is no good.

Oil, Water, Humidity, Dust, Dirt, or even an excess of the same paint you are using can cause issues.

I hope your next try goes better. Even though I have painted a lot in the past, there is always that time where you just get back into the groove.
 
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