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  #1  
Old 02-06-2019, 07:09 AM
MLeamy MLeamy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Elizabethtown, KY
Posts: 5
Default WTB - ELT Kit (406mhz)

Good Morning All -
Looking to purchase an ELT setup (need test switch, antenna, elt, etc - - the whole shooting match, lol).
Looking specifically for 406mhz models (or those that do both the 121.5 & the 406mhz).

Please advise what you have & your price (including shipping to 42701).

Thank you!
Michael Leamy
Elizabethtown, KY
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  #2  
Old 02-06-2019, 01:56 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,877
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Please DO remember that any 406MHz ELT you purchase must be coded to match YOUR aircraft. Any savings had from purchasing a used one might well be consumed by the cost of having an avionics shop reprogram it to match your aircraft.

Sometimes buying new is the best option, and this is likely one of those instances.
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  #3  
Old 02-12-2019, 07:55 AM
Radioflyer Radioflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Boston
Posts: 70
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Is it mandatory that a certified avionics shop do this? Can't the new owner re-register the device himself following the initial instructions in the unit's manual?
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  #4  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:23 AM
Tracer 10 Tracer 10 is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 96
Default YES

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
Is it mandatory that a certified avionics shop do this? Can't the new owner re-register the device himself following the initial instructions in the unit's manual?


https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov.beacon.html
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  #5  
Old 02-12-2019, 11:13 AM
RV6_flyer's Avatar
RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Location: NC25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracer 10 View Post
Thanks for posting the link. I did not know the answer and the broken link got me to an answer.

Looks like a TYPO in the link. It should be:
https://www.sarsat.noaa.gov/beacon.html

Following is a COPY / PASTE from the above link:

If you purchase a new or used U.S. coded 406 MHz beacon you MUST register it with NOAA as required by law. If you change any information on your registration (such as phone number, address, bought a new boat, etc.) you MUST update the 406 MHz beacon registration with NOAA. Also, if you sell your 406 MHz beacon, notify NOAA that you have done so, inform the buyer that they must register the beacon for themselves. Otherwise, you may be contacted by rescue authorities if it is activated! Please provide the new owner our phone number or this web page so they can register the beacon.
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  #6  
Old 02-12-2019, 01:57 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Sorry folks, but this discussion is missing the real meat-and-potatoes of the matter.

There are TWO topics here:
1) programming the ELT to match the tail number of the aircraft (USA only) or the ICAO Mode S address (Canada) to produce a unique "digital signature" that identifies the distress beacon by linking it to an aircraft (this is the avionics shop side of things)

2) registering that unique digital signature to you, as the owner, to tie it to your contact information (this is the NOAA side of things in the USA)

To get more specific...

1) If you buy a 406MHz ELT, it MUST be programmed to the registration of the aircraft in which it is installed. This is NOT optional - there is no "anonymous mode" or similar like in ADSB. If you buy a 406MHz ELT, it must be programmed to match your aircraft - this normally is done using a specialized tool, often referred to as a "programming dongle". Most manufacturers limit this reprogramming to approved service centres.

In some instances, especially for operators of a fleet of aircraft, the aircraft wiring is installed in such a manner that the ELT picks up the registration information from the aircraft wiring. This facilitates moving ELTs from one aircraft to another within the fleet.

2) Once the ELT is properly programmed to match your aircraft, the result is a unique string of digits that are, effectively, the unique signature of your aircraft and the ELT installed within it. In the bad old days of the 121.5MHz ELT, an ELT transmission was anonymous - nobody knew which airplane was transmitting the distress signal. Now, with the digital signature programmed into the ELT, we know exactly which airplane is transmitting the distress message. This is a huge power tool, but its effectiveness is crippled unless the owner of the beacon registers the beacon (with NOAA in the USA). When registering a 406MHz ELT, one is prompted to add one's name, mailing address, email address and phone numbers to the registration database. THIS is the information that Search and Rescue use to conduct a communications search prior to scrambling search aircraft. The combination of the unique signature of the beacon being tied to your personal communications coordinates allows SAR resources to call you and determine if you are really in distress, or perhaps that last landing wasn't quite as good as you thought it was!

If buying a used 406MHz ELT you must have it programmed to match your aircraft, and then register it with the local registration authority (NOAA in the USA or the Canadian Beacon Registry at https://www.cbr-rcb.ca/cbr/presentat..._connexion.php )

Please, please, whatever you do, don't think you can just buy a used 406MHz ELT, install it in your airplane, then register it using the digital data printed on the tag attached to the ELT. It must first be programmed to match your airplane. This is a crucial step.
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  #7  
Old 02-12-2019, 02:10 PM
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RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
There are TWO topics here:

1) programming the ELT to match the tail number of the aircraft (USA only) or the ICAO Mode S address (Canada) to produce a unique "digital signature" that identifies the distress beacon by linking it to an aircraft (this is the avionics shop side of things)

2) registering that unique digital signature to you, as the owner, to tie it to your contact information (this is the NOAA side of things in the USA)
As usual, Canadian_JOY has the correct information! Had to check this out for myself. For example, here is a link to the ACK E-04 121.5/406 MHz ELT Programming Manual.

From Page 2:
"Standard Location Serial Number Protocol -

All Model E-04 ELT’s are factory programmed with this protocol and have USA (country code 366) as the country code. This protocol uniquely identifies the ELT by the manufacturers Type Acceptance Number assigned to the manufacturer by COSPAS and its COSPAS serial number. These numbers are factory programmed and may not be changed and will remain the same throughout the life of the ELT. The only change allowed to the programming in this protocol is the country code which indicates which country the ELT is registered. This is the most simplified form of programming and we recommend using it whenever it is allowed.

Standard Location 24-Bit Address Protocol -

This protocol uses the aircraft 24-Bit IACO address to uniquely identify the ELT. This code is commonly referred to as the Mode S Code. Most countries have a civil aircraft registration data base which allows you to enter a aircraft tail number and find the IACO or Mode S code. Most countries use the HEX format for this code however some use Binary or other formats. The 24-Bit programming instructions that follow will further elaborate on this."

Unfortunately, Canadian_JOY's post and this post will disappear in 30 days.
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Last edited by RV8JD : 02-12-2019 at 02:33 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-12-2019, 08:28 PM
thinkn9a thinkn9a is offline
 
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Location: Mississippi
Posts: 235
Default So if the E-04 manual says serial number is std protocol

And one of the others is S mode,....

THEN WHY IS ANY PROGRAMMING REQUIRED.?

... because if you look at the TOP of the Front page Of the instructions,... it says IF they are programmed FROM THE DEFAULT serial number Format .... it cannot be programmed back to serial number.....


Following is copied from instructions.... (NOTE LAST SENTENCE)


There are three standard location protocols allocated for ELT’s. The Model E-04 has the capability to be programmed for each of these protocols.

Standard Location Serial Number Protocol
All Model E-04 ELT’s are factory programmed with this protocol and have USA (country code 366) as the country code. This protocol uniquely identifies the ELT by the manufacturers Type Acceptance Number assigned to the manufacturer by COSPAS and its COSPAS serial number. These numbers are factory programmed and may not be changed and will remain the same throughout the life of the ELT. The only change allowed to the programming in this protocol is the country code which indicates which country the ELT is registered. This is the most simplified form of programming and we recommend using it whenever it is allowed.
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  #9  
Old 02-12-2019, 10:26 PM
Canadian_JOY Canadian_JOY is offline
 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Each COSPAS-SARSAT signatory country agrees, as part of its membership, to enforce a particular set of rules for beacons registered in their country. In the US, that rule for ELTs mandates the inclusion of the US country code and N-number registration. In Canada the enforced standard is the inclusion of the 24-bit ICAO address, also commonly known as the Mode S address. This is not something over which the ELT manufacturer has any jurisdiction, hence the wording chosen by ACK... "whenever it is allowed." Simply put, it is not allowed for either USA or Canada. I can't speak for other jurisdictions in which I have no experience.
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  #10  
Old 02-13-2019, 12:33 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_JOY View Post
Each COSPAS-SARSAT signatory country agrees, as part of its membership, to enforce a particular set of rules for beacons registered in their country. In the US, that rule for ELTs mandates the inclusion of the US country code and N-number registration. In Canada the enforced standard is the inclusion of the 24-bit ICAO address, also commonly known as the Mode S address. This is not something over which the ELT manufacturer has any jurisdiction, hence the wording chosen by ACK... "whenever it is allowed." Simply put, it is not allowed for either USA or Canada. I can't speak for other jurisdictions in which I have no experience.
I am confused. I just bought an Artex ELT from spruce and they didn't ask for my n number or anything else, beyond which country it was to be used in. The kit included a registration form for me to complete and send in. It seemed as though this was similar to my PLB, where it broadcasts a country code and a unique ID and that is tied back to my details via computers at the observation / receiving station after receiving the signal. The retailers aren't asking for n numbers to program in and the instructions don't discuss that. I am struggling to believe that the ELTs must be programmed with N numbers, if neither the manufacturers or retailers are stating that. This applies to US only, as my kit was specifically packaged for US customers.

EDIT: I just read the ACK instructions referenced a few posts above. The three options are 1) country Code + serial number 2) ICAO number 3) a fleet operators unique ID plus fleet operators desired identification number. No option for N number programming. I am guessing that the US requires an N number, but does so via obligatory registration information and then just gets the serial number from the ELT and computer matches that to the registration information submitted by the owner when receiving a distress signal.

Larry
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Last edited by lr172 : 02-13-2019 at 12:56 AM.
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