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Quick Build Aft Longeron Missing Rivets

mfleming

Well Known Member
Patron
I didn't find any help by searching VAF so I thought I'd ask...

My quick built fuselage has many rivets missing and temporarily held together with pop rivets. Most of the time it's obvious why they left out the rivets.

But this time I'm stumped and afraid I might be missing the obvious.

There are a line of rivets from the F-709 bulkhead all the way back to the F-711 bulkhead along the upper longeron that are missing.

I have no idea why these were left out. Ive already installed the F-712 aft bulk head with the -7 weldment in place and these missing rivet didn't seem to make it any easier.

I'm ready to mount the horizontal stabilizer and need to install these rivets before moving forward I assume.

So, should I start bucking away or is there something I'm missing?

Here's what I mean.

aft_rivets.jpg
 
Yup, those are all missing ... and what's with the pop rivets? I did a slow build; all those should be set by now...I set mine before riveting the top plate on top of the longerons (but before the top skins ... the whole "canoe" thing)

Check with Van's .. the pop rivets ... are they size #40? I've only seen #40 countersunk pulled rivets for nut plate installations; they are kinda hard to find.
 
I would check the rudder stops you have there, they may be right by the plans but in practice they may be a bit short. At least thats what I found 😊
 
My QB came the same way. You can just remove the temp rivets and finish riveting those lines (leave out the ones for emp fairing). There is one rivet on each side you cant buck if they didnt do it at the factory. I couldnt find a suitable pop rivet that was readily available. Vans advised me to leave it out. The F-711D is in the way so a rivet with suitable grip length will bottom out on the angle well before its seated. I actually ended up removing the F-711D angle so I could get at it. I would have left it out as Vans suggested but I wasnt happy with some bucking bar damage to the longerons by the quickbuild factory and ended up removing the aft deck to smooth the damge out.

http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=126066
 
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Check with Van's .. the pop rivets ... are they size #40? I've only seen #40 countersunk pulled rivets for nut plate installations; they are kinda hard to find.
+1 Hanson Rivets has the 3/32 size. Ample selection. Buy direct from manufacturer.

I would check the rudder stops you have there, they may be right by the plans but in practice they may be a bit short. At least thats what I found 😊
+1 yep, that stop is for the 6 rudder,the original one (aka: short). Do some VAF research and you will find a better design.

Also, note on the plans some of those holes will get threaded for the fairing under the HS.
 
I would check the rudder stops you have there, they may be right by the plans but in practice they may be a bit short. At least thats what I found 😊

Waiting to rivet the stops until the rudder is mounted :D

............
+1 yep, that stop is for the 6 rudder,the original one (aka: short). Do some VAF research and you will find a better design.........

I?ve looked around but the only alternative rudder stops I see are the internal variety.....which I?m not a fan of :(
 
So I'm going to rivet this section today.

But I still don't know why they left if unriveted :confused: , Maybe it's just part of the 51% rule :rolleyes:
 
Michael, those rudder stops will not do the job. I suggest you do not rivet them on until you have the rudder in place and can measure that they limit the deflection of the rudder to the angles specified in the manual.
 
Michael, those rudder stops will not do the job. I suggest you do not rivet them on until you have the rudder in place and can measure that they limit the deflection of the rudder to the angles specified in the manual.

10-4 on not riveting the stops unti check with the rudder in place.
 
Not all, but some of those holes will be threaded to take the emp fairing when you're ready for that. DWG-44 shows it (at least on the tailwheel instructions) There is also a F-794A that is a gap cover that will attach via these screw holes.
 
Not all, but some of those holes will be threaded to take the emp fairing when you're ready for that. DWG-44 shows it (at least on the tailwheel instructions) There is also a F-794A that is a gap cover that will attach via these screw holes.

Bummer....I looked at DWG28...all rivets...and that's what I did :mad:

Oh well, I'll fix it later :cool:
 
F-792 Rudder Stop

I manufactured the rudder stops P/N: F-792 as per the Van's drawing 27A. However, when I checked the rudder maximum deflection I found there was at least 5/32 inch gap between the rudder stop and P/N: R-405 on the rudder.

I then redesigned new rudder stops out of the same material using Van's dimensions for the vertical face (i.e. that sits against the fuselage) but modified the horizontal surface to achieve the correct rudder deflection.

The reason I used the original Van's dimensions on the vertical face is the rudder comes in close proximity to the fuselage skin at full deflection. If you extend the length of the stop beyond the skin it may contact the rudder and damage the skin.

I have included a drawing showing the finished dimensions of my new rudder stops (click on the link below to view). I would suggest that you mark out the horizontal surface but then add at least 1/16 inch extra material on the face that contacts with R-405. This will allow you to 1. remove the required material to obtain the stated rudder deflection (i.e. 1 & 1/8 inch gap from rudder skin to elevator trailing edge) and 2. shape the rudder stop so that the entire surface will contact R-405 instead of a point.

My other piece of advice is to do all of the above before riveting the rudder stops on (i.e. easier than having to drill out rivets if you make a mistake).

I hope this information is helpful. The second link below is a photo of my installed left hand stop.

Happy building.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/25775267443

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/26105124980
 
I manufactured the rudder stops P/N: F-792 as per the Van's drawing 27A. However, when I checked the rudder maximum deflection I found there was at least 5/32 inch gap between the rudder stop and P/N: R-405 on the rudder.

I then redesigned new rudder stops out of the same material using Van's dimensions for the vertical face (i.e. that sits against the fuselage) but modified the horizontal surface to achieve the correct rudder deflection.

The reason I used the original Van's dimensions on the vertical face is the rudder comes in close proximity to the fuselage skin at full deflection. If you extend the length of the stop beyond the skin it may contact the rudder and damage the skin.

I have included a drawing showing the finished dimensions of my new rudder stops (click on the link below to view). I would suggest that you mark out the horizontal surface but then add at least 1/16 inch extra material on the face that contacts with R-405. This will allow you to 1. remove the required material to obtain the stated rudder deflection (i.e. 1 & 1/8 inch gap from rudder skin to elevator trailing edge) and 2. shape the rudder stop so that the entire surface will contact R-405 instead of a point.

My other piece of advice is to do all of the above before riveting the rudder stops on (i.e. easier than having to drill out rivets if you make a mistake).

I hope this information is helpful. The second link below is a photo of my installed left hand stop.

Happy building.


https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/25775267443

https://www.flickr.com/photos/141779426@N07/26105124980

Gordon, Thank you.

Your rudder stop looks great. I immediately saved the photo and drawing to my tips folder.
I was going to go through the drill just like you did but now I have a great head start.


Your photos of the rudder stop were next to your photos of the electric elevator trim wiring routing...I like them so much I saved them too.

Do you have more photos of your project online?
 
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