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RSA-5 diaphragm question
- Thread starter airguy
- Start date
Andrew Anunson
Well Known Member
The parts you are questioning have not been used in 30 years, and all RSA units are required to be overhauled every 12 years.
If you own or are looking to purchase an RSA-5 that has not been overhauled in the last 12 years, then realize that it has to be overhualed before you fly with it, even on a homebuilt.
If you own or are looking to purchase an RSA-5 that has not been overhauled in the last 12 years, then realize that it has to be overhualed before you fly with it, even on a homebuilt.
skylor
Well Known Member
skylor
Well Known Member
Regulations vs Prudence
I'm not arguing against the prudence of actually performing the maintenance, I'm just wondering why the previous poster thinks that it "has to be overhauled" on experimentals.
I dunno about regulations...but IIRC this one was 10 years old. It scared two pilots, ruined a fly-out weekend for two more, and caused a lot of inconvenience.
I'm not arguing against the prudence of actually performing the maintenance, I'm just wondering why the previous poster thinks that it "has to be overhauled" on experimentals.
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pazmanyflyer
Well Known Member
Precision Airmotive LLC SB PRS-97 REV2 dated Aug 2013.
http://www.precisionairmotive.com/Publications/PRS-97%20Rev2.pdf
skylor
Well Known Member
Manufacturer service bulletins are not mandatory for part 91 operations, certified or experimental. Mike Busch has written quite a bit on this subject. Again, I'm not suggesting that they shouldn't be performed, only that they aren't absolutely legally required.
http://www.avweb.com/news/savvyaviator/savvy_aviator_63_recommended_or_required-199001-1.html
Skylor
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We've been down this road many times. Someone has to sign the aircraft off once a year in a "Condition for Safe Operation." I don't understand how you could do that without complying with some of these safety bulletins that are clearly mandatory for other aircraft. I can't imagine living with myself if someone got hurt because I thought I knew more than others who are the experts on their particular product.
Perhaps I am an anomaly.
Vic
Perhaps I am an anomaly.
Vic
cajunwings
Well Known Member
Rubber parts
I know that life limits are set by manufacturers with liability issues in mind. However as a 30yr IA my experience has shown that any rubber part over 10 years of age has done its duty for you and how much longer it may last cannot be predicted.
Don Broussard
RV 9 Rebuild in Progress
I know that life limits are set by manufacturers with liability issues in mind. However as a 30yr IA my experience has shown that any rubber part over 10 years of age has done its duty for you and how much longer it may last cannot be predicted.
Don Broussard
RV 9 Rebuild in Progress
Tom Martin
Well Known Member
My first airplane, RV4, had an engine rebuilt by a local "expert" He purchased the RSA5 from someone who assured him that it had been rebuilt. After 30 or 40 hours I was doing some upper air work and noticed that he engine would not not run smoothly under 1200 rpm. I had no idea what was wrong but suspected the engine would not continue running when I slowed in the circuit. I was right and the wood prop stopped turning at 100mph.
The landing roll was much shorter then expected as the fixed pitch prop pulls a lot more at idle then I had expected.
The servo was sent to a certified shop and it was determined that it had never been rebuilt. The expert I purchased the engine from said it was not his problem.
Lesson 1
Never again accept an engine that has not been through a certified shop and treated just like all the other certified engines.
Lesson 2
Plan on the plane stopping a lot shorter then you are used to with a fixed pitch wood prop that is not turning.
Lesson 2 saved my life when the same engine dropped an intake valve 100 hours later! ( hence emphasis on Lesson 1)
The landing roll was much shorter then expected as the fixed pitch prop pulls a lot more at idle then I had expected.
The servo was sent to a certified shop and it was determined that it had never been rebuilt. The expert I purchased the engine from said it was not his problem.
Lesson 1
Never again accept an engine that has not been through a certified shop and treated just like all the other certified engines.
Lesson 2
Plan on the plane stopping a lot shorter then you are used to with a fixed pitch wood prop that is not turning.
Lesson 2 saved my life when the same engine dropped an intake valve 100 hours later! ( hence emphasis on Lesson 1)
Walt
Well Known Member
Vic, although I may agree with you on a philosophical level, are you saying that you research and comply with all manufacturer SB's, SL's and AD's for every component and accessory (including the engine) installed on every aircraft you inspect before you will sign off a CI?
(PS: last time I checked SB's are not "clearly mandatory" for any aircraft no matter how they are worded)
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Ya'll amuse me.
Not a peep as far as an answer to the original question (which was settled long ago) for 3 weeks - but as soon as someone mentions "regulations" we go into a free-for-all.
Thanks for all the non-help on the original, legitimate question. I now return you to the irrelevant BS.
Not a peep as far as an answer to the original question (which was settled long ago) for 3 weeks - but as soon as someone mentions "regulations" we go into a free-for-all.
Thanks for all the non-help on the original, legitimate question. I now return you to the irrelevant BS.
Greg (airguy),
What method did you use to determine if the Bendix RSA-5 series servo in your original question had the newer fluorosilicone diaphragm and packings installed?
I appreciate your thread. I would have not otherwise known that it is advisable/prudent (not regulatory) to comply with Precision Airmotive SB PRS-97 REV 2 OVERHAUL PERIODS FOR RS/RSA FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM COMPONENTS.
Thank you!
What method did you use to determine if the Bendix RSA-5 series servo in your original question had the newer fluorosilicone diaphragm and packings installed?
I appreciate your thread. I would have not otherwise known that it is advisable/prudent (not regulatory) to comply with Precision Airmotive SB PRS-97 REV 2 OVERHAUL PERIODS FOR RS/RSA FUEL INJECTION SYSTEM COMPONENTS.
Thank you!
Let's be practical. If they are a flight safety issue, I fix them. Examples would be the aforementioned RSA SB and the the oil pump AD for Lycomings. If it's not a flight safety issue I certainly make the customer aware and give an opinion. I've never ever had a customer push back on anything. The only place it ever seems to come up is on this forum. And I am not here to unecessarily spend the customer's monies. Only to insure the aircraft is in a condition for safe operation.
As an example, many owners don't realize there are recommended overhaul periods for accessories like props, governors, and mags. On my airplanes, I comply with those recommendations. I've seen many second-owner airplanes that have never had them done because they were unaware. I do sign it off but make a recommendation that they consider the overhaul recommendation. So far, all of them have been doing that on their schedule post CI.
Vic
After waiting a couple days for an answer on this thread, I simply emailed Don Rivera at Airflow Performance. I got a fast response with the information I needed, and pricing for overhaul services if I wanted to do that. Don's a good guy and he'll treat you right.
So why not tell us?
And spoil all the fun?
The RSA5 has a specific "parts list" number that is on the dataplate, this parts list number refers to a specific list of parts that are installed inside the device. There is an "issue number" at the last end of the parts list number that is a "-XX" that defines the latest revision of that parts list. The current revision is "-13" of the parts list and was effective sometime in 1986, and that last revision was the one that put flourosilicone components in place of rubber components. If your RSA5 has the -13 at the end of the parts list number, you have the flourosilicone.
This has nothing to do with the 12-year overhaul period, which may or may not legally apply to experimentals, but is still a good idea.
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Greg,
Thank you.
Thank you.
Andrew Anunson
Well Known Member
Newer Op-Limits require mandatory compliance with any limits imposed on lifetimes by MFG's. We are required to abide by our operation limitations.
If you have an older homebuilt, this may not be in your Op-Limits.
Define "newer" please. My op-lims were issued in January and don't carry that requirement.
Andrew Anunson
Well Known Member
This is the op-lim guidance published by the FAA on 2/4/15 as 8130.2H...
"The aircraft may not be operated unless the replacement for life-limited
articles specified in the applicable technical publications pertaining to the
aircraft and its articles are complied with in one of the following manners:
(a) Type-Certificated Products: Replacement of life-limited parts
required by ? 91.409(e) applies to experimental aircraft when the required
replacement times are specified in the U.S. aircraft specifications or type
certificate data sheets.
(b) Non-Type-Certificated Products: All articles installed in
non-type-certificated products operated under an airworthiness certificate
issued for an experimental purpose, in which the manufacturer has
specified limits, must include in their program an equivalent level of safety
for those articles. These limits must be evaluated for their current
operating environment and addressed in the approved inspection program.
All articles installed in non-type-certificated products in which the
manufacturer has specified limits, must include in their program an
equivalent level of safety for those articles. The article must be inspected
to ensure the equivalent level of safety still renders the product in a
serviceable condition for safe operation. (19) "
skylor
Well Known Member
Applicability
I'm curious to know if the language above is really making it into "small" experimental-amateur built op-lims. Paragraph a) above appears to be applicable to large aircraft and/or turbine aircraft only. Paragraph b) appears to have the same intent as a) but for non-certificated products. I don't believe that manufacturer SB's are enforceable for part 91 operations (including certificated aircraft) if the bulletins are not called out in maintenance manuals or on the type certificate.
Again, I'm not suggesting that people blindly ignore manufacturers service bulletins. However, many of these bulletins are written with liability in mind and make no regard to storage conditions and service history of the hardware. As I posted previously, Mike Busch has written many articles on the subject of condition based maintenance and the one I linked in my previous post extensively discusses the applicability of manufacturer SB's for part 91 operated aircraft (included certificated aircraft). I recommend reading these articles (on Avweb) if you haven't already.
Skylor
I'm curious to know if the language above is really making it into "small" experimental-amateur built op-lims. Paragraph a) above appears to be applicable to large aircraft and/or turbine aircraft only. Paragraph b) appears to have the same intent as a) but for non-certificated products. I don't believe that manufacturer SB's are enforceable for part 91 operations (including certificated aircraft) if the bulletins are not called out in maintenance manuals or on the type certificate.
Again, I'm not suggesting that people blindly ignore manufacturers service bulletins. However, many of these bulletins are written with liability in mind and make no regard to storage conditions and service history of the hardware. As I posted previously, Mike Busch has written many articles on the subject of condition based maintenance and the one I linked in my previous post extensively discusses the applicability of manufacturer SB's for part 91 operated aircraft (included certificated aircraft). I recommend reading these articles (on Avweb) if you haven't already.
Skylor
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Silver Hawk
I'm New Here
Just to clarify, the issue number or revision level for a given parts list number is unique to that parts list. I believe your servo is parts list 2524147-13, which is the current revision, but another parts list, say 2524054 is current with a -11 revision. Others may have a -2 or a -15, so you need to check the overhaul manual or call me at Precision.
Also the -13 does not signify a Silicone diaphragm, it is the hard anodized Aluminum mixture valve. The current diaphragm was changed at -12 on the 2524147 servo.
Silver Hawk
I'm New Here
No dates are put on the servo, so you will have to check the logs.
