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Advice on Selling "High Value" Item on VAF

Dan Langhout

Well Known Member
I've sold and bought several items via the VAF "For Sale" forum and have never had any trouble. Typically paid or received the funds through PayPal, paying or receiving first with item shipment following. Never worried too much about it since the amounts, while not pocket change, were within my risk tolerance. I think the highest amount was $1K. However, I am thinking of selling something worth a lot more (GNS-430W) which is decidedly above that risk tolerance. Lots of folks have bought and sold things on VAF at or above this value level. For those of you who have done this, what did you do to "trust but verify" on either the buyer or seller side of things? I have seen a fair number of 430's go through so I would particularly be interested in those folk's experience. Thanks.
 
I think in the past, SteinAir has been willing to act as a middle man / broker for this type of item, for a small fee (you would need to check and see if they still do that).

Seems like a very good way to go with the only down side being that it might take just a bit longer to fully complete the transaction.
 
Hi Dan,
There was a post a while back around using a Trusted 3rd party for a low fee. For example you can use Stein as a 3rd party to the transaction. If the buyer is not comfortable in sending you money and you certainly don't want to send your avionics before receiving the money, the buyer can send Stein (an example of a trusted 3rd party) the money, stein confirms receiving the money, you ship the product and seller and buyer pay a small fee to the trusted 3rd party (Stein in this example).
 
I believe Jesse Saint also provides the middle-man service.

I sold a 430W to a VAF member after removing it from the Lancair 320 I bought from the insurance company. The buyer had it checked out after receiving and let me know the screen did not light up so I sent him back $900 to have it repaired by Garmin.

With that and shipping insurance, I made a lot less on the deal than I had anticipated but honor is more important than a pocket full of cash.
 
There can always be a crook slide in, but I have bought and sold LOTS of bigger items on here, always with the best of results. Anything I sell of course I will take back if the buyer is not satisfied, and mostly that is true with everyone here. Many years and many dollars, never a problem.
 
Stein did that for me when I recently purchased an avionics package from one of his other customers. Since we were both previous customers, he did that as a favor. I did have him add about $13K in additional avionics and harness wiring though before he sent it to me! Otherwise I would expect that some form of financial compensation would be in order for this service from him.
 
I have provided the "middle man" service in the past and am happy to do that again. Basically, the item would be shipped to me once a price has been agreed upon. I can test to make sure it works if I have a way to do so (a plane here with the same unit installed so I can plug it in and verify it powers on). Once that is done the buyer sends the funds directly to the seller. Once the seller receives the funds I ship the unit to the buyer. I would just charge the shipping plus my time for testing depending on how complicated the test needs to be. For example, if I need to fly to test the Nav radio, then I would need to charge for that.
 
"DO" be careful. About 1 1/2 years ago, one of the lads here sold a 430W for $7500 smackers. Never saw his 430 or heard from the guy again. The middleman sounds like a great idea. I recently sold a GTN 625, and was willing to personally fly it to the buyer if within a 1000 mile range. A cash on the barrel head arrangement. Well, it worked out fine with PayPal, but I still like the trusted middleman idea.:cool:
 
This is a very timely post as I am buying the Mattituck engine listed for sale here yesterday. The seller and I are looking into escrow.com.
 
I have provided the "middle man" service in the past and am happy to do that again. Basically, the item would be shipped to me once a price has been agreed upon. I can test to make sure it works if I have a way to do so (a plane here with the same unit installed so I can plug it in and verify it powers on). Once that is done the buyer sends the funds directly to the seller. Once the seller receives the funds I ship the unit to the buyer. I would just charge the shipping plus my time for testing depending on how complicated the test needs to be. For example, if I need to fly to test the Nav radio, then I would need to charge for that.

Thanks Jesse. Sounds like a good and fair process for both sides. Really sounds like the 3rd party middleman is the way to go.
 
How would you guys feel about splitting the risk so to speak?
For example paying half before shipment and half after? I am also looking into a big purchase and was thinking about this exact problem. But if it is not a small piece of avionic but let's say a fuselage kit then shipping it to a middle man would very very expensive... Ideas?
 
Well I would be inclined to buy a ticket and go pick it up. This is a small additional cost but it does lower the risk substantially. The pay half now and half later idea to me doesn't lower the risk sufficiently. Airfares can be pretty cheap and I would think well worth the money on such a high value purchase. I'm not saying anything about the seller because I have no idea, but I don't have the money for an engine yet, and I certainly don't have the money to pay for one twice.
 
I've bought and sold items here for years and never had a problem. As a seller you are far less likely to get burned, as a buyer there could be an unscrupulous seller you get involved with. As a seller, always take pics of your item and the box you're shipping it in, including the label. Ship with tracking ALWAYS. You'll get confirmation the package was delivered. If your buyer is using PayPal do not ship until the funds are in your wallet, same goes with checks or wire, make sure the funds are in your account. As a buyer here...... well, first red flag is a VAF member with just a few posts, NO... Next, if it seems too good to be true, no doubt it's a scam. There's a sticky in the classifieds about scams that should be read. If you buy using Paypal, you do have buyers protection (for about 3% more) but proof is the key with Paypal. Always take pics!! The box, the label, the item and save all communications. This is how you will be protected with PayPal. With all that said, 99.9% of the VAF community are good guys and not crooks, it's a scammers that sneaks in. A lot of people here know a lot of people here. Most of the scams I've ever seen posted on VAF were not though the forum but outside the forum and posted here to warn people. Just some common sense will go a long way.
 
If your buyer is using PayPal do not ship until the funds are in your wallet, same goes with checks or wire, make sure the funds are in your account.

This is the Catch-22 if you're a buyer or a seller. Why should one party take the risk (by sending the check or shipping the item) before the other party makes his move?

I'd suggest paypal unless you know the other party.
 
Why does this site not have an I-trader system? Is it cost? I don't know, but other sites I have used for other hobbies have a rating system I am sure people are familiar with. It helps for sure.
 
How would you guys feel about splitting the risk so to speak?
For example paying half before shipment and half after? I am also looking into a big purchase and was thinking about this exact problem. But if it is not a small piece of avionic but let's say a fuselage kit then shipping it to a middle man would very very expensive... Ideas?

What about having the buyer ship the funds to a middle man and then you ship the unit directly to the buyer. The buyer will assume responsibility for shipping and return shipping if they are not happy with the goods. This way if you do not get the goods back in good order you get your money back from the middle man. All the buyer assumes for a risk if shipping charges.
 
This is the Catch-22 if you're a buyer or a seller. Why should one party take the risk (by sending the check or shipping the item) before the other party makes his move?

I'd suggest paypal unless you know the other party.

If the buyer does not receive the item Paypal will refund his money. That's why the seller has tracking on the package. As well as both parties documenting both sides of the transaction. I do not send an item until the check clears. It's not rocket science.
 
I?ve found most sellers request you use the ?friends and family? option on PayPal. I don?t know if any protections are in place if you use that method.
 
I?ve found most sellers request you use the ?friends and family? option on PayPal. I don?t know if any protections are in place if you use that method.

With friends and family Paypal won't give you protection but it saves the seller about 3% in fees. Using regular Paypal does give protection to the buyer and might be a good idea on more expensive items where the buyer doesn't feel comfortable with the sale. Maybe split the fees to make the deal work but again, it's very rare here to see a scam.
 
I think you are "over thinking" this. From a flip side, as a seller I am turned off by someone that wants to treat me like a crook, use a middleman, etc. I simply move on to a more sensible buyer, I guess I feel if he is so involved with crookedness, maybe he is actually out to rip me off. Someone sends me the money usually by paypal, he has protection, I have a smooth deal and it is all over.
 
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