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51% rule

Mousse

Well Known Member
Question for buyers or sellers that have imported/exported homebuilt aircraft to the US from Canada. What was required by the FAA to show compliance to the 51% rule by a Canadian builder?

Michel
 
Same requirements as in the US---a builder's log is sufficient to show compliance with the 51% rule.

Vic
 
Same requirements as in the US---a builder's log is sufficient to show compliance with the 51% rule.

Vic

What about when there is no builder log as such, which is not required under Canadian regulations? Would an affidavit from the builder satisfies the FAA?
Regards,
Michel
 
You'd have a hard time building an Amateur-Built in Canada without showing a builder's log to MD-RA during the inspections. Not saying it's impossible, but that you'd have an uphill battle proving to the inspector that you built it.
 
My plane was imported by the guy I bought it from. The paperwork wasn't "good enough", whatever that means, for and airworthiness certificate here in the states. The DAR approved the plane to fly and the owner had to fly off the 25 hours conducting all the tests as if he built it. Then the cert was issued. Not sure, but I don't think he got a builders cert to perform inspections on it. But he had it maintained by an A&P anyway.
 
I have built 3 different aircraft, all of them signed off by a FSDO inspector. My experience was the inspector was more interested in the required paperwork being correct and builder knowledge of the build. As to builder knowledge, they would ask subtle questions about a particular area about how did I get this or that to fit. Seems they had some knowledge in those areas. I suggest you talk to other builders and ask the same questions about the part of your project already built. Just one opinion. Dan from Reno
 
My plane was imported by the guy I bought it from. The paperwork wasn't "good enough", whatever that means, for and airworthiness certificate here in the states. The DAR approved the plane to fly and the owner had to fly off the 25 hours conducting all the tests as if he built it. Then the cert was issued. Not sure, but I don't think he got a builders cert to perform inspections on it. But he had it maintained by an A&P anyway.

Since he was not the builder of the airplane he is not eligible to get a Limited Repairman certificate, to do annual condition inspections.
 
You'd have a hard time building an Amateur-Built in Canada without showing a builder's log to MD-RA during the inspections. Not saying it's impossible, but that you'd have an uphill battle proving to the inspector that you built it.

Let me see, I'm on project #7 and the last six never had a builders log. I built them all and it would not take long questioning a builder to find out if they built the airplane. Now if you receive help from someone to do the wiring for example, you would not be able to answer those questions. I do my own wiring also.
Had the MD-RA ask what was the minimum size control cable for flight surfaces when I was building the SuperCubs and I told him I had no clue, but that the SuperCub required 1/8". He said that was the type of answer he liked and that 1/8" was the minimum. He also said that the only size I needed to know on my project was the size required for that aircraft.
When I visit projects, it does not take long to find out who is really the builder.
 
Thank you your inputs. A friend who use to be a RAA inspector mentioned to me today that there is a reciprocal agreement between Transport Canada and the FAA to the effect that when one accept that an amateur built aircraft has met the 51% rule, it is prima facie evidence to the other the project has met the 51% rule. Anyone care to confirm or comment on this agreement. I will attempt to confirm this with our MD-RA. Thanks

Michel
 
Never heard of any reciprocal agreement between the US and Canada.

The FAA does NOT automatically accept Canadian amateur-built certification in the US as Amateur-Built. To apply for US Airworthiness in the Experimental Amateur-Built category, one must prove that the aircraft was indeed 51% amateur-built, the same as if it were newly built in the US. Certified statement from the original builder, builder's log, and FAA Form 8130-12 will satisfy this requirement.
 
The FAA does NOT automatically accept Canadian amateur-built certification in the US as Amateur-Built. To apply for US Airworthiness in the Experimental Amateur-Built category, one must prove that the aircraft was indeed 51% amateur-built, the same as if it were newly built in the US. Certified statement from the original builder, builder's log, and FAA Form 8130-12 will satisfy this requirement.

Thanks Mel. This is exactly what I wanted to know. That should satisfy the potential buyer of my -9.

Michel
 
Hope this is not too far off subject...But there are builders like myself who have utilized the talents of many friends, and high school students in the construction of the amateur built aircraft.

As such a traditional log has not been kept. But the build has been documented with many photos of the process.

Similar to the EAA at Oshkosh where hundreds of individuals will stop by to pop a couple rivets.
 
Hope this is not too far off subject...But there are builders like myself who have utilized the talents of many friends, and high school students in the construction of the amateur built aircraft.
As such a traditional log has not been kept. But the build has been documented with many photos of the process.
Similar to the EAA at Oshkosh where hundreds of individuals will stop by to pop a couple rivets.

Absolutely no problem with many people helping with amateur-built aircraft. As long as they are not paid, it is still built by amateurs.

There is no specific requirement for format of the builder's log. As long as a chronological order of the build can be substantiated, that should suffice.
The primary purpose of the log is to show that the aircraft is indeed amateur-built. And as has been stated before, we can establish if you built the aircraft with a few questions about the construction.
 
I have seen many kits take a LONG time to complete, across many individual owners. One took over 20 years. There is no limit as to how many people can work on the airplane, and there are allowances for the areas in which commercial assistance is permitted (engine, avionics, paint, etc). An inquisitive DAR or Inspector, as Mel mentioned, can quickly determine if it was amateur-built.

Any airplane coming in from another Country will still need to meet the same burden of proof. The only difference is that the Phase I test period is allowed to be shortened if in the judgement of the Inspector/DAR the aircraft has already been determined to meet the requirements of Phase I.

Vic
 
I have seen many kits take a LONG time to complete, across many individual owners. One took over 20 years. There is no limit as to how many people can work on the airplane, and there are allowances for the areas in which commercial assistance is permitted (engine, avionics, paint, etc). An inquisitive DAR or Inspector, as Mel mentioned, can quickly determine if it was amateur-built.

Vic

While we have a fairly detailed photo record, with notes, some of the build detail items might be forgotten as this has been a multi-year project, with a few gaps in between. With multiple cooks in the kitchen.

Yes, the engine work, avionics install, and paint is or will be professionally done.
 
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