The High Cost of G696 Updates

Remember when Polaroid first came out with the instant camera, they almost gave the camera away, because their film was the only game in town.
It appears that Garmin should almost give the 696 away because of the high cost of updates.
I realize that you DON'T have to technically keep your databases up to date, just don't get any kind of a violation or incident because of that.
Just did a seach with fly.garmin as to what it will take to keep my new 696 totally up to date.

Nav Data $49.95 one time $295 Annual
Flight Charts $95.00 one time $395 Annual
AOPA $49.95/3 months $95 Annual
Terrain $150 (no time frame shown)
Obstacle $49.95 /2 month $195 Annual
Safe Taxi $49.95 single $195 Annual

This works out to an annual fee of $1325 to stay current.

I know it's still a little early to have established some guidelines, but I'm wondering how those who have used the unit, and those who are in the same wondering process as I am, plan to deal with this.
You can purchase all this info with paper, at a much lower cost, albeit not as convenient.
Jack

This works out to an annual fee of $1325 to stay current.

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Thats actually a sorta maybe depending on what you wish to do with the unit.

You can survive without the flight charts, aopa manual, safe taxi, terrain, and obstacles.

Remember part 91 has no requirement to carry any charts current or not. You just need to be familiar with all data pertinent to the intended flight.

As far as obstacles and terrain go look out the window and do not fly into anything.

Safe taxi and aopa directory. If you belong to AOPA download this stuff before a flight, you already paid for it.

Charts? the basic database contains pretty much everything you need for a flight.

Evn if everything is loaded on the Garmin and current you have an obligation to research flight info the day of the flight anyway because a chart/directoey/anything starts getting out of date the day it is published.

I wouldn't agonize over update costs. If you want a 696 get one. Update it once a year and chase down the data for updates the wayyou did before you had it.

When using a 2,3,496 there was nothing I needed from a sectional or the airport directory that I couldn't get from the basic unit database.

The 696 will be a marvelous unit with just the $295 annual nav data data base.

I plan to buy a 696 soon, and also have had some indigestion over the update costs. I keep the 430 in my plane up to date, so my plan is to update the nav data annually, and that is about it.

If one does the serial connection from the 430 to the 696 (for flight plan cross fill), I wonder if it pukes if the nav data isn't equally up to date? The cynical side of me says Garmin might just do that...

USCANAM said:

...
AOPA $49.95/3 months $95 Annual
Terrain $150 (no time frame shown)...

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Well AOPA data is not at all urgent. Maybe update every couple of years or so. As for terrain. How often does a mountain move anyway? I don't see a reason to ever update that!

Very much like Larry, I am not to worried about most of the databases. I will be keeping the charts up to date because that will be my regular IFR approach database.

But as he said - the terrain doesn't move that fast!

Paul

Doesn't the terrain database also include towers? I'd imagine that those 2,000' AGL BATs (big @$$ towers) don't pop-up all that often, but cell phone towers do. Of course, the cell phone towers are only a few hundred feet tall...not where most of us usually fly I'd venture to guess. -Jim

fehdxl said:

Doesn't the terrain database also include towers?...

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No that is obstacles. I have mixed feelings on that database. When I first got a G396 I thought that was the great feature for VFR flight, but upon further reflection, maybe not so. If there is a tower charted, there is a very high probability that there is a tower there, and that is great to know. If there is nothing charted, there may still be a tower there, because they are putting them up all the time. Even with the latest obstacle database, great care is called for.

Can you even see the charts if they are outdated?

I just read an article in Flying magazine about the 696 and it said something about the charts not being available if they were out of date. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Joe Hutchison

They Go Away

Or, more to the point, Garmin won't let the charts be access beyond 180 days from the expiration date. (I believe I read that in the manual.)

I've taken the 696 for a few flights and played with it in the shop. I know I'm prejudiced, I'm old, and I like ink, but reality is that the screen is still very, very tiny compared to bedsheet-sized for-real charts that are very much more legible. The approach plates are pathetic. Some of the font is so diminutive it's only decipherable because you expect certain words and numbers in certain places, and your brain fills in the blanks. I rather expected all this from using prior generation units, so it validates my limited expectations for gee-whiz features on a still itty-bitty screen. As a GPS it's dandy, and the principle reason I bought it, along with the screen being more EFIS-like in its clarity in varying light conditions.

The only update I'll buy once in a blue (or fewer) moon is the data base update - and then only if too many of the identifiers have changed. If your budget is hurt lusting for a 696, I suggest getting a far cheaper, but abundantly capable anything else.

John Siebold

A Lot of Good Points have

been suggested here, and things to consider.
I do not intend to fly our 9A in instrument conditions that we flew our very well prepared (circa 1992) Mooney in. I'm mainly concerned about the waterproof issue and moisture in the wiring problems, so our intentions are light IFR to get home or to VFR conditions.
The main reason we panel mounted the 696 was for the EFB (electronic flight bag) feature. As for legibility, by zooming in to the necessary info you require, I found the information quite legible. An experienced IFR pilot usually knows the pertinent info required minutes ahead.
I guess what we'll have to determine is whether to update the approaches within the 128 days before they shutdown, buy a annual subscription,or go back to carrying paper in the limited space afforded by the 9, or a variable combination of all.
I realize you can't legally proceed with expired charts and plates. Whether to use them as a backup is up to the individual pilot.
Jack

I just did a one-time update on a CNX-480, and that's even more outragous than the 696 updates. I suspect they're pumping up the one-time updates so folks jsut pull the trigger on the annual subscriptions.

Cost is a driving decision factor for me

I bought a 695 and saved around $600 off the top. I plan not to renew my Jep charts which I had cut down to a small coverage already (because they cost around $795 a year as I recall for full coverage). I have studied the approach chart function on my 695 and I know it can be zoomed and scrolled but that is not what I want to be doing while flying an approach. The information in its normal state is too small and it is not geo referenced so for me it is more of an emergency diversion capability. I plan to buy the cheap bound government charts as I have for the past few years for every trip I fly - I do not find them as comfortable as Jep approach charts but I can use them and update the in unit approach chart part of the data base twice each year. If I receive a clearance different than expected I want to change physical pages rather than cycle through the right sequence of displays hoping for the right result while I am zooming through the bowels of dark clouds single pilot IFR. The three little brown Flight Guides give me full US airport coverage so Jeppesen and AOPA can forget about the related airport data bases. A lot of the "Whiz Bang" stuff of the unit is simply not going to be necessary and I expect the user waypoint, flight planning and moving map functions (and the simulation function for now) will be all I actually use for IFR trips. The MAP display is so big and bright compared to what I have been using that this alone is worth the price of admission to me. By the way, keeping the unit legal as an EFB requires that two databases costing approximately $700 per year be kept current - I'm obviously not going to do that.

Bob Axsom

Another alternative to keeping yourself "IFR Legal" (and that, of course, is debatable....):

Buy the update only service from Aircharts in May - this will give you an every-28-day sheet of paper that lists ALL the approach changes in th entire country from the May start up to that point. Update your Garmin only often enough to keep the charts showing up (every 28 days). Now you legally have the data onboard.

I personally have found the approach plates on the 696 very easy to use, but every individual is different, and they might not work for everyone - sort of like getting pilots together to debate the relative merits of NOS vs. Jepp charts.

The bottom line on charts for most of us is that we will use .01% of all the charts we have in a given year. i generally will print out the ones I expect to use on a flight, and then use the EFB as my backup bag in case I go someplace entirely unexpected - and if I do something "entirely unexpected" on a flight, in my book, I have screwed up. The EFB function is more than adequate for me in that case.

I used to use AirCharts, and found this to be the best way have charts and plates in date.
I agree with you Paul, but I need you to explain this

Ironflight said:

Update your Garmin only often enough to keep the charts showing up (every 28 days). Now you legally have the data onboard.

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Do you mean to pay the $395 annual update fee?

I guess in reality, you have to take an honest look at the missions that you really are going to fly.
Years ago with the Mooney, I did 24-30 flights a year that were over 200 miles, and I had the plane always ready to go at the drop of a hat.
Now, with the 9, in all honesty, my missions have changed drastically, and I really don't have the need to run to the airport, and fly off after the phone rings.
So you have to change your mind-set in accordance.
As Paul says, I think the best way is to adjust the cockpit to the flight at hand, rather to the flight that might be.
Jack

USCANAM said:

I used to use AirCharts, and found this to be the best way have charts and plates in date.
I agree with you Paul, but I need you to explain this

Do you mean to pay the $395 annual update fee?

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Oops....I meant every 180 days - too early in the morning!

696

I was considering buying one of these units but I am curious why anybody would buy one if they don't intend to update it and keep it current? I will admit that I am a "gadget" type of guy and I really wanted one at first but a 696 is a pretty expensive gadget not to mention the update issue. Help me out here!

I have a 696 and love it, but I agree the cost of database updates is a bit ridiculous for a non certified VFR unit. So....what I may do is subscribe to the annual nav data database subscription (although that is not for sure - may just do it 'as needed'), and do the approach charts twice a year, only so they will stay viewable on the 696. For any IFR flight I am undertaking I'll print free approach charts from AOPA. The 696 charts would be for emergency use only, if for example I divert to an airport that I had not originally intended to travel to. All of the other stuff (safe taxi, obstacles, AOPA, etc.) is nice, but not essential, and I'll update those rarely.

When I had my Beech A36 it had a GNS480 and a GMX-200 with ChartView, and the cost of keeping those databases current was killing me, adding about $15/hr to my operating costs. In reality current databases were not crucial to most of my flights which could have been flown VFR, although I almost always filed IFR. However I did fly 5 -10 flights a year that encountered IFR conditions, so that meant I had to continue to contribute to Jeppesen's bottom line by subscribing to their services if I wanted to stay legal (I did!). I was spending about $1500/yr on subscriptions. I happen to like Jepp Charts much better than NOS, and the ability to print Jepp charts from ChartView was great. IMO Garmin really missed it by not allowing the user to print the charts from the 696 THAT HE/SHE ALREADY PAID FOR! What a boneheaded move on their part!!

Another reason I will not do annual subscriptions is because updating the databases is a royal pain in the a**. The unit needs to be connected to the internet in order to do the updates. My unit is installed in my -8's panel, which would mean either removing the unit every 28 days and taking it home, or using a laptop near a Wi-Fi (none by my hangar) or use a laptop with an Air Card (expensive and S-L-O-W). All of these methods are archaic. Why on earth did Garmin not set the machine up so that a simple SD card swap would be all that is required for the updates? Another boneheaded move by Garmin.

But as I said, overall it is a great unit, and if you use it as it is legally intended (non-certified VFR unit), then there's no requirement, and in my view no need, to keep all of its databases current. Just my opinion however......

Seriously?

n38139 said:

I was considering buying one of these units but I am curious why anybody would buy one if they don't intend to update it and keep it current? I will admit that I am a "gadget" type of guy and I really wanted one at first but a 696 is a pretty expensive gadget not to mention the update issue. Help me out here!

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Limited personal money and lack of value to me are my reasons for not buying all updates to all databases. I highly value the moving map (VFR and IFR), user waypoints, flight planning and the approach charts (as a backup) but all the rest is of no interest to me. I am definitely not a gadget type of guy. The technology is far from the ultimate state but I understand the need to get a product on the market to establish a new high water mark and recoup development costs. If I had a good display moving map GPS I would not have bought this unit. I don't so I finally made the very large jump from my still working GPS90 to the GPS695. Based on that history this will probably be my last such purchase but I am very pleased with the unit for my purposes.

Bob Axsom

n38139 said:

I was considering buying one of these units but I am curious why anybody would buy one if they don't intend to update it and keep it current? I will admit that I am a "gadget" type of guy and I really wanted one at first but a 696 is a pretty expensive gadget not to mention the update issue. Help me out here!

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Because not all of the funcvtions are useful to all individuals.

VFR only ....no need for approach plates or enroute charts.

Terrain....how often does terrain change?

Raster sectionals....What do they have that the base database and info pages do not?


Taxi diagrams....nice if you fly into a lot of large airports but not needed by most.


etc.

Price of Flight Charts Tripled

I was considering renewing the Flight Chart subscriptions for the 696, since they will "ghost out" in another week or so (six months after expiration). But now, if one wants the whole continental US, you have to get three subscriptions - to Western, Central and Eastern U.S., effectively tripling the price since my last update in October, 2009. The cheapest "bundle" offered is $499 for all charts, safe taxi, AOPA, etc.

I've decided to let the Flight Charts go away, and just use the GoodReader on my Ipod.

Jerry Carter said:

I've decided to let the Flight Charts go away, and just use the GoodReader on my Ipod.

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Ditto here. I'll be using AFS' geo-referenced charts on my 3400 and 4500, and will use ForeFlight's charts on my iPad for backup purposes. Adios to Garmin updates.

Now there is a cheaper way to get db update for GPSMAP 695

attackpilot said:

I just read an article in Flying magazine about the 696 and it said something about the charts not being available if they were out of date. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Joe Hutchison

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Can someone explain this? I'm thinking of a used 695 or 696 or similar but maybe not now.

I have an Area 500 and a Garmin 660 and they have never been updated. I use them for VFR flying here in NW Canada and so far I haven't noticed any changes for not updating.

So is this charts like the in the Sectional not being available, only on the 696 or does it impact other Garmin products?

Thanks
Tim

riobison said:

Can someone explain this? I'm thinking of a used 695 or 696 or similar but maybe not now.

I have an Area 500 and a Garmin 660 and they have never been updated. I use them for VFR flying here in NW Canada and so far I haven't noticed any changes for not updating.

So is this charts like the in the Sectional not being available, only on the 696 or does it impact other Garmin products?

Thanks
Tim

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I sent you PM

attackpilot said:

I just read an article in Flying magazine about the 696 and it said something about the charts not being available if they were out of date. Does anyone know if this is the case?

Joe Hutchison

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riobison said:

Can someone explain this? I'm thinking of a used 695 or 696 or similar but maybe not now.

I have an Area 500 and a Garmin 660 and they have never been updated. I use them for VFR flying here in NW Canada and so far I haven't noticed any changes for not updating.

So is this charts like the in the Sectional not being available, only on the 696 or does it impact other Garmin products?

Thanks
Tim

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Tim,

You appear to be basing your dissatisfaction on an ancient VAF post and a similarly out-of-date magazine article instead of the current GPSMAP 695/696 Pilot Guide.

It has been 13 yrs since the software in the GPSMAP 695/696 would not display FliteChart information (Arrivals, Departure Procedures, Approaches, and Airport Diagrams) that is older than the expiration date.

As explained in the current GPSMAP 695/696 Pilot Guide, "FliteCharts® do not expire and will remain viewable after the expiration date.".

Note, however, that the Pilot Guide explains that Jeppeson "ChartView is disabled 70 days after the expiration date and is no longer available for viewing.". As I recall, this is (or at least was) a requirement for devices which use Jeppesen ChartView.

As shown the GPSMAP 695/696 software update history, this change was made in V3.20.

The current 695/696 software is V7.80. If you purchase a 695/696 that has old software, you can update the unit to V7.80 yourself by downloading the latest free software.

Steve

No, I wasn't stating dissatisfaction with Garmin. It was only a question based on what I was reading on the forum.

Nothing worse then flying and all of a sudden you lose your maps. But, I still fly with paper maps besides me and sometimes open so I can see the Big Picture.

And yes, I do vaguely recall reading something to that effect 13 yrs ago.

So, clarification made and its clear. Thanks Steve

Tim