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Building/storing in the cold

tcoverst

Active Member
I am building a new to me 9a kit. Wings are done and fuselage is on gear. My building space is an out-building two stall plus garage. Plenty of space, but no climate control. My question is, do I need to be concerned about the effect of that cold on my kit? When I heat the building with a shop heater to work out there, will that cause expansion/contraction or problems with the kit? Could condensation form? Anyone with experience in similar build space?

And just to get ahead of thread scope creep, I know that a temp controlled workshop will make it more likely I will be consistent in my build hours. I get the advantages - but we work with what we have - right? I?m just faking it until I make it here! Mostly concerned with any impact on the kit itself.

Tim
 
I built in a unheated garage for a year in northern VA before I put in a small ac/heater. Used a propane heater when I did work. Tools got a bit rusty but wasn’t horrible. The kit will survive. It’s not the best solution but it can work. (Just make sure you have enough ventalation if you are using propane due to CO).
Remember most hangars are not heated either.
 
I built in a unheated garage for a year in northern VA before I put in a small ac/heater. Used a propane heater when I did work. Tools got a bit rusty but wasn’t horrible. The kit will survive. It’s not the best solution but it can work. (Just make sure you have enough ventalation if you are using propane due to CO).
Remember most hangars are not heated either.

Exactly my experience. I assembled the major components in an unheated space. You will survive Tim. Just don't cut the canopy and work with fiberglass during winter time. :)
 
Many of us built in an unheated space. I used a Quartz IR overhead heater, but they eat a lot of electricity and do nothing for condensation. It just heated me and the surfaces around me, not the space.
When I was building in that un-insulated hangar, on certain days, it was like a rain forest with water literally dripping from the metal trusses and roof.
The kit didn't seem to care, it was always covered, but as mentioned, tools had surface rust.

A few years ago, at the recommendation of a neighbor, I started using a dehumidifier in my hangar and garage spaces. A unit capable rated for 2400 sqft with built in pump run just under $300. While they don't heat the space, they are not 100% efficient so you get some residual heat, but, tools don't rust anymore, even at our coastal home.
They are amazingly effective and relatively cheap to run.

Back in the day, there was a common theory that skins should be heated, or warmed, and riveted while warm. I have seen no evidence that it makes a difference. I am sure thermal expansion has a play, but just not sure how impactful, if at all, when it comes to the quality of the finished product.
 
I did the majority of my build in an uninsulated detached garage in Duluth, MN, you're not going to find much colder.

as you indicated your comfort will effect how much you work on it. Invest in good cold weather overalls, warm boots, gloves that give good dexterity, and an electric infrared heater to warm your hands/tools. I learned to put the tools and hardware I would be using in front of the heater and it helped a bunch. It's amazing how much heat a cold wrench can take from your hands; which if you're dress appropriately will be the only thing that gets really cold. if you dress for the temperature I didn't find it all that bad with just my small infrared space heater.

It obviously isn't ideal from a comfort standpoint; but the kit didn't suffer from it.
 
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I didn't mention a dehumidifier, but YES. I was running one all summer, and now keep it in my garage running all the time. Only thing you may have to be concerned with is making sure you empty it after every build session to prevent damage from freezing?

When you are done building, move it to your basement or laundry room to help keep the house dry (especially if you or your spouse like to hang dry clothes!)
 
Kerosene heater

I am planning on using an old kerosene heater I have. Great idea to store the tools I am getting ready to use by the heater and using it to keep my hands warm. Otherwise, coveralls, boots and let's get building.
Glad to hear the experience from VA and MN that cold winters won't hurt the kit.
 
I use an ancient natural gas space heater in the winter. Works fine, but I make sure that there's plenty of fresh air available to the heater; something you will need to do with the kerosene heater, as well. Not great for thermal efficiency, but much better for your life. :)

Biggest issue I've seen is that the unpainted tail wheel 'stinger' is fairly close to the heater, and it's gotten a fair amount of rust from the heated, humid air rising past it. Any combustion source that's in the work space will be putting a lot of moisture into the air. I haven't seen much of an issue other than the tailspring, and I live in MS, where the humidity almost always exceeds the temperature, and the temperature exceeds the pain threshold for anyone who's from north of the Willie Dixon Line.

Charlie
 
I built in a hangar that is much more like a farm equipment shed / pole barn. It's an enclosed space, sort of. A foot or so of open space under the sliding doors, open eaves and a vented ridge cap ensure plenty of air moves through the hangar (sometimes tumbleweeds of mown grass in the summer, too!). The walls are bare tin siding, with an R-factor that seems to be less than zero.

One of the biggest differences in builder comfort I found was after I installed a plywood sub-floor on top of the asphalt floor, then threw some hand-me-down carpet over the plywood. This really helped with keeping the feet warm and preventing leg and back pain.

I found I could work pretty comfortably down to -10C and even colder if there was no wind. I have a 50,000Btu kerosene salamander heater which I would direct toward the back of my legs - the rising warm air kept my back warm. Of course I always wore multiple layers and a toque to reduce my personal heat loss.

As Vlad said, working with plastics and composites is a no-go in the cold. I have cured small composite layups using localized heat from a 100W incandescent light bulb, but only when I had no other choice, and even at that I could only do it in a location where I could tent the part totally to prevent movement of air, all the while paying very close attention to minimizing fire risk.

Some of my tools are a bit rusty. A coating of Fluid Film really helps keep the rust at bay. Also, silica desiccant bags placed in tool box drawers work wonders.
 
I built my -8 many years ago in a partially insulated, but unheated garage in suburban Boston. Suffice it to say that the winter mornings in the shop were cold. I used two small electric heaters (one at each end of the 24'x'24' space) and would simply turn them on while having my coffee, then get dressed. By the time I came back downstairs, the shop was warm enough for me to work. That RV was built between 12/99-5/02, so three winters were spent in this fashion - it worked well enough.

All of that said, I'm glad to be building my -14A down here in Orlando. Even in mid-winter, there won't be many days (if any) that'll make me wish for heaters. Come to that, I'll just take a day or two off, as better temps will be along shortly.
 
I only saw one post about thermal expansion; the rest seemed more concerned with keeping the builder warm. There used to be advice (I think it is found in "XX years of the RVator") to heat the skins before drilling and riveting them to reduce the chance of oil-canning. This was in the pre-pre-punch days; I don't think it would matter as much with the pre-punched parts. I'm not really sure it mattered anyways, as my RV-6A was ordered before the pre-punch kits were available. It has been in a hangar or shade in Flagstaff since it was built and temperatures range from below freezing in Winter to nearly 90 in summer and I have not noticed any differences; I expect the entire airframe expands and contracts pretty much together.
 
Heating

I put electric heaters in the corners of the garage during the winter and ran up the electric bill. Circuit breakers would occasionally pop when the air compressor would kick on, haha.

No issues with thermal expansion on the metal parts. The canopy can shrink or grow by as much as 1/4'' between hot/cold. And, definitely don't do any cutting or drilling work on the plexiglass when it's cold. Listen to Van's recommendation on that one. Wouldn't mess with it under 80'. I did a couple tests on scrap parts at different temps and the elasticity b/w hot and cold is dramatic. I could snap the plexiglass with my hands during cooler days. Bend it at will with no problems during the summer.
 
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It obviously doesn?t get as cold down here as it does for you blokes, but nevertheless I had the issue where, after a build session running the heater etc when it got cold at night the moisture would condense on the steel sheet roof of the shed and rain down everywhere.

My solution was to screw foilboard up onto the roof bearers (so there was 2? or so of space between the foilboard and the roof sheet). Completely solved the problem, keeps the heat in and the cold out etc (or vice versa in summer) plus the silver foil really reflects the light making building easier.

I would assume there is a similar product in the states: https://www.foilboard.com.au/
 
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