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  #21  
Old 05-23-2018, 07:26 AM
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Snowflake Snowflake is offline
 
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It's fairly common on Rockets with sliding canopies to have a flat-wrapped fixed portion of the windscreeen. That would simplify making the forward portion out of a different material at least, as it would be a flat wrap.
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  #22  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:33 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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...Or -8's too.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ight=Flat+wrap

The flat wrap is easy to form and unlike the blown bubble, keeps the material dimensions consistent.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

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1940 Taylorcraft BL-65 -flying
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  #23  
Old 05-23-2018, 09:13 AM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Location: Hubbard Oregon
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Default A different viewpoint for the discussion.....

Not intended to downplay anyones desire to modify their canopy for better bird strike protection, but I tend to look at this and other risk factors while flying, using statistical data.

The #1 cause of accidents in experimental amateur built aircraft is loss of control (low level stall / spin, etc.)

The second is engine failure (because of construction error or maint. related). This one often leads to the #1 reason being a factor as well.

Accidents from bird strikes are way down at the bottom of the list. Now if we consider that a lot of the bird related accidents with RV's occur in specific circumstances (High speed at low altitude, part of a formation group, sometimes both together), then if we avoid these situations in our flying, we have moved a rare occurrence to to an even lower level of likelihood.

<My experience is that birds are quite good at avoiding RV's if they can see you (I fly with bright wig/wag lights on at all times..... day or night) If they have time (if you are not too fast), and if they don't have to avoid a bunch of different airplanes at the same time. Now if it is an attack situation..... well, some things we can't do much about, but it seems extremely rare. It is the first instance I have ever heard of.>

I admit that there will always be some level of risk with birds. My point is that it is very low compared to a lot of other things that we can easily have a direct influence on, but rare discuss here in the forums (or when we do, some people get offended and things get nasty).
The accident records and follow on discussions are full of stories about pilots that were known by all of their peers to have been excellent pilots.... they were a CFI... had done many first flights, etc., etc., and they were killed because of a low level loss of control accident. Everyone was in total disbelief that it could happen to them.

My main point is, there is nothing wrong with analyzing our aircraft and looking for ways to make them safer, but it might be far more productive to focus on the things that are the cause of most accidents. If loss of control happens to a lot of people that were considered to be very experienced and skilled pilots, discussing ways for us average guys to avoid the same fate should be at he top of our priority list.
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  #24  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:14 AM
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flyboy1963 flyboy1963 is offline
 
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Default material specific solution?

If I may throw in some material observations;

most of the optically clear laminates were developed for glazing, thus are NOT stretchy, and won't conform to the compound curves of a canopy. All the folks referring to 'flat wraps' are on the right track...... I think if someone wants to put a laminate on the face or inside of a windshield.

The vinyl, PVC and other conformable products are typically only 1 or 2 mil thick, and would give minimal support to an impact that is capable of cracking polycarb or acrylic. Their soft character also means they scratch and scuff easily.

the final downside....you are looking THROUGH whatever adhesive is bonding the laminate to the windshield, thus there is some distortion, UV aging and other negatives that go along with it.
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  #25  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:30 AM
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Toobuilder Toobuilder is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
Not intended to downplay anyones desire to modify their canopy for better bird strike protection, but I tend to look at this and other risk factors while flying, using statistical data.

The #1 cause of accidents in experimental amateur built aircraft is loss of control (low level stall / spin, etc.)

The second is engine failure (because of construction error or maint. related). This one often leads to the #1 reason being a factor as well...
This is all well and good, but I have yet to experience a low level loss of control (despite spending plenty of time in the "higher risk" camp), nor have I have an engine failure... I have had a few bird strikes and plenty of near misses though. Even with strobes flashing and LED landing lights wagin', I've encountered birds and had to take evasive action from cruise altitude all the way down to ground level.

Statistics are fine but personal experience tends to bias one's views substantially.
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WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.

Michael Robinson
______________
Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI instalation in work
RV-8 - Flying
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65 -flying
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  #26  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:16 PM
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pierre smith pierre smith is offline
 
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Default Spinner paint.

I've seen British military trainers with one third of the sinner painted a contrasting color. They claim that the 'strobe' effect gets their attention because they can see it moving, but not when it's a solid color.
Best,
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  #27  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:21 PM
Radioflyer Radioflyer is offline
 
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I agree with Toolbuilder. Besides, I doubt that many of the bird strikes already reported on this and other discussions even made it into the official statistics database. Statistics refer to a population, not an individual pilot. If that pilot feels his greatest threat in his flight environment are bird strikes, then that is what he needs to address first. While flying safely and with a good running engine, I really would hate for a bird to ruin my day, especially if there is some fix I could devise. Btw, this danger is especially true in a pusher aircraft, I would think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toobuilder View Post
This is all well and good, but I have yet to experience a low level loss of control (despite spending plenty of time in the "higher risk" camp), nor have I have an engine failure... I have had a few bird strikes and plenty of near misses though. Even with strobes flashing and LED landing lights wagin', I've encountered birds and had to take evasive action from cruise altitude all the way down to ground level.

Statistics are fine but personal experience tends to bias one's views substantially.
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  #28  
Old 05-23-2018, 12:46 PM
rvbuilder2002 rvbuilder2002 is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
Besides, I doubt that many of the bird strikes already reported on this and other discussions even made it into the official statistics database. Statistics refer to a population, not an individual pilot. If that pilot feels his greatest threat in his flight environment are bird strikes, then that is what he needs to address first. While flying safely and with a good running engine, I really would hate for a bird to ruin my day, especially if there is some fix I could devise. Btw, this danger is especially true in a pusher aircraft, I would think.
I am aware that a lot don't get reported.
I am basing my statement on other info that I have access to. Largely because of where I work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radioflyer View Post
If that pilot feels his greatest threat in his flight environment are bird strikes, then that is what he needs to address first. While flying safely and with a good running engine, I really would hate for a bird to ruin my day, especially if there is some fix I could devise. Btw, this danger is especially true in a pusher aircraft, I would think.
Yes, it is a personal decision, but that is the whole point of my post. To get people to think. Because if a person think that a bird strike is there greatest flight risk, they are mistaken.

BTW, a tractor prop will do very little to mitigate a bird getting to a wind screen vs a pusher airplane. objects pass through a spinning propeller quite easily without getting hit. If you do the math it makes it obvious why.
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  #29  
Old 05-23-2018, 08:45 PM
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vernon smith vernon smith is offline
 
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If we are getting into the area of probabilities some attention should be paid to location. I'm in Florida and man do we have birds, and worse still, lots of big ones.
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  #30  
Old 05-23-2018, 11:17 PM
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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Location: LSGG
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Default More blades

Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002 View Post
...BTW, a tractor prop will do very little to mitigate a bird getting to a wind screen vs a pusher airplane. objects pass through a spinning propeller quite easily without getting hit. If you do the math it makes it obvious why.
Agreed - we need more blades on our props.

Most pilots like to have the wheel, the stick, the handlebars, whatever, and like the feeling of control. All the larger risks you mentioned are under the pilot's control, and have already been taken into consideration. Random risks, no matter how small, get a lot of attention - rightly or wrongly - since the pilot does not have much control over them.

I know that if I had some magic film I could put on my windscreen that would keep a bird out, I'd buy it. I'd probably do it even if I knew at the back of my mind it was a placebo.
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